Miriam and Isaac Jones ( Yr Ogof)

[Hugo]

Helig and AJ,  if the 1911 Census shows John and Annie as being married and the BMD records show the marriage in the Q ended  December 2010 then you have probably got the right people.
Even if the General Register cannot provide a Certificate of Marriage using the new  ref there is another way of getting one.     The Registrar for BMD's for Conwy County is at the Town Hall Lloyd Street Llandudno and they may have the records there.    Llanrwst, although in Denbighshire at the time is now in Conwy County and those Marriage records should have been transferred there

The staff at the Registrar's office were very helpful when I called there some years ago and together we found a birth certificate for another forum member who was desperately searching for his Grandfather's birth Certificate/
If you are able to call at the Town Hall  AJ  then it's worth following up Helig's latest post and then you can see the record first hand

[Helig]

Hugo has the right idea and it would be better to obtain this locally rather than the General Registrar. I still think they should have checked the reference in the circumstances. You could take it up with them and see what they say. I have always found the local Registrar's office to be much more helpful. It used to be cheaper to get certificates from them but I don't know if this still applies. Once again, apologies for the mix up.

[Hugo]

My experience with the local Registrar's office has been very positive and I sat in the office with a lady and we looked through the original Registers.      The person I was trying to help had spent a lot of money applying for Certificates and they had all been the wrong ones so by me going to the Town Hall and explaining the circumstances , the forum member was able to get the correct Certificate of his Grandfather

[Hugo]

Just had letter from the General Register Office, they couldn't find the marriage certificate for Annie and John.  AS i can't find John's birth certificate, I think finding a connection between my Great grandfather and Miriam and Isaac is unrealistic if I can't find John's parents' names. Thank you all so much for you help, I've really enjoyed the trying to find the link.

AJ,   like I said before don't give up on it and all you need is a bit of luck.    Thanks to the work that Helig has done in finding the marriage between John and Annie in 1910 I can tell you that John's father was called Robert Jones.
The marriage took place on the 24th December 1910 and John was aged 28 which puts his birth at C1882 and Annie was aged 24 
Unfortunately the hand writing on the Certificate is poor and I can't make out their residences at the date of the marriage

AJ unfortunately hasn't been on the forum since his last posting and doesn't have a contact number so I can't pass on this message to him.     If anyone knows who AJ is perhaps they would be kind enough to pass this message on and ask AJ to look at the forum again, thanks

[AJ]

Morning Helig and Hugo.  I am so sorry i haven't been on for a while due to family circumstances.  Thank you so much for that I will look into it.  I wonder if they didn't get married till later?  Annie's family wouldn't let her marry him so they eloped and ran away to S. Wales. They was a lot of secrecy around everything.  One of their daughters later burnt the family Bible with all the dates in the front, so they may have got married quietly later.  Thank you both again, I'll have a look again.

[Helig]

Thank you for obtaining the certificate and posting it Hugo. I think the address of John Jones is Nant y Felin but cannot decipher the other word. I shall pursue this however.

When I was searching for John Jones originally I came across a Robert Jones who seemed to be of interest and a potential father for him. I think he was based around Maenan. I think the second word in Annie's address to be Trefriw.

I note the witnesses were Joseph Jones and Annie Jones and we can presume they are related to John Jones. I suspect they could be his siblings, or Annie is his mother. This gives us more information to work on.

I am recovering from a big operation at the moment but am just starting to get going again. I will have another look at this as soon as possible.

[Hugo]

I'm sorry to hear about you having a big operation Helig and I just want to wish you a speedy recovery.     I'll post more later as I have to go and pick my car up now after it's MOT

[AJ]

Sorry Hugo I've only just seen the certificate as it was under an advert.  Thank you so much for this.
Thank you both again for all your support, I'm sorry that you are having an operation, I hope it all goes well

[AJ]

Hugo, I noticed that the date on certificate is 2023, did you have to pay for this? If you did it's important that i reimburse you.
Thank you  Amanda

[Hugo]

Amanda, it is a copy and that is why it's dated 2023.       I had a good search online but couldn't find anything definite so I was going to go to the Archives and the Registrar's office but I decided to send for the certificate instead after checking Helig's second reference number.
It's been my pleasure trying to help out because I am fascinated by Isaac and Miriam and the descendants I know have all been really nice  people.   I wouldn't dream of any reimbursement as it was my choice to do it after all.    You are welcome to have the certificate for keeping because I have saved a copy on my laptop.    Just send a PM with an address where you want it to go to if you want it

Helig,  I'm happy now because my 15 year old car passed the MOT with no problem, so that's good.     I can now make out that Nant Y Felin now that you have pointed it out and the other word is Maenan but I still can't make out Annie's address in Trefriw.
Anyway we are now looking for Robert Jones' birth and based on John Jones birth at C1882  I think that Robert's birth must be somewhere between 1855 and 1864 but that's a wild guess.
I did find something interesting on Free Reg last night and it was a Baptism for Robert Isaac Jones in 1960 at St Tudno's Church.  His father was an Isaac Jones but the mother was Mary.    It makes you think of all scenarios, did Mary die and Isaac marry Miriam the following year?   That's what makes AJ's search so interesting
Llandudno's population in 1851 was just 1131 so there would not have been too many Isaac Jones' living in the town
Anyway I would like to think that AJ is nearer to finding the connection to Isaac and Miriam.    In the meantime I hope you get well soon

[AJ]

Thank you Hugo that's so kind of you,  i still wish you would let me pay for it because they aren't cheap. I have tried to PM you by clicking on your name but it says I don't have access.
I know that Annie's father built houses in Trefriw and they ran a farm above the village. In the 1911 census their address is Rebo Trefriw,
My mam was very close to her nain and it was lovely to be able to show her the wedding certificate, she asked me to say thank you to both of you for all your support.
I do know that John and his mother are buried in the cemetery above Trefiw, so i think I will nip and have a look when the we have a nice day, as I have John's date of death I'm hoping that his mother was buried with him. If I can find her name i may be able to find her wedding certificate.  I know that both parents survived John and Annie is buried with her second husband.
Thank you again

[Cambrian]

Could it be Gwynfryn, Trefriw ?

[Helig]

See my post dated 21/08/2023. In the 1891 census there was a John Jones age 8 in the household of Robert Jones, farm labourer, living in Maenan. I had that as a possible for him although Maenan didn't agree with the information we had then.

Maenan is in the parish of Eglywsbach according to Genuki:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Eglwysbach/EglwysbachGaz1868

I am in a hurry today but will look at it again.

[Hugo]

Could it be Gwynfryn, Trefriw ?

Thanks Cambrian and you could be right with Gynfryn Trefriw as the Welsh name still exists there.    That hand writing is pretty bad so you did well to decipher it


https://www.sykescottages.co.uk/cottage/North-Wales-Snowdonia-Trefriw/Gwynfryn-1080749.html

[Hugo]

That was a good find of yours on 21st August 2023 and the marriage certificate confirms your find