Police Effectiveness

[Yorkie]

The problem is that when you need one you can't find one.     Nowadays they have become very good at dishing out Incident Numbers.    

Police effectiveness could well be directly proportional to the number of "active" officers one sees on our streets.   By all reports from previous comments on this and other Forums there are very few.   Maybe it would be a good idea for the Members of this Forum to carry out a survey and report the date, time and place that they see a uniformed officer on foot in our ThreeTowns.

[Nemesis]

This has made my posting above a load of rubbish as it refers to another thread. As I cannot now edit it, either please do so or delete it. As usual I stand corrected.

[DaveR]

I've removed your post, Nemesis.

I'm in town every day and I see Police pretty much every day.

[Nemesis]

This had nothing to do with the amount of police, but the fact that our drunk and abusive Bugsy had been collecting 'followers' complete with bottles etc and having daily gatherings outside the Seilo Chapel. Not good for the town's image

[DaveR]

Indeed.

[Ian]

Hmmm...

From my perspective, I welcome Mike's involvement on the forum and I'm pretty certain the majority agree. But the Police are in a tricky position, and Mike's venture onto the forum was always going to be a potential issue.

Mike's putting in a fair bit of time on the forum, and the way in which he's dealt with queries is to be applauded, quite frankly. He doesn't have to do it - it's not a specific part of his remit - and I'm guessing most of us want him to carry on contributing.

With regard to the comment that sparked the current debate, my reading is that Mike was simply making an educated guess - the sort of thing any Police officer might say to reassure someone that justice was being done. The problem with making it in a post is that a forum is essentially a written and permanent document, so words have to be chosen with extreme care since they're available for anyone in the world to read and, perhaps more to the point, remain available for the foreseeable future. It's the main reason why publication on here of any personal details without the owner's consent is unacceptable.

Please don't take this personally, Mike;  you're a very valued contributor and I firmly believe we're the better for having you on board.

[Yorkie]

With regard to the comment that sparked the current debate, my reading is that Mike was simply making an educated guess - the sort of thing any Police officer might say to reassure someone that justice was being done. The problem with making it in a post is that a forum is essentially a written and permanent document, so words have to be chosen with extreme care since they're available for anyone in the world to read and, perhaps more to the point, remain available for the foreseeable future.

Which is just the point I was trying to make, but which is now lost as it has been totally separated from the initiating posting!

.......remain available for the foreseeable future

Unless, of course, it has been deleted!!

In future I will have to use Copy & Paste when refering to any PC Smith posting so that any comment by me will have the reference included.

[Yorkie]

I'm in town every day and I see Police pretty much every day.

They are very rarely seen in Penrhryn Bay unless they are hiding in their multi-coloured jam-jars in the Surgery Car Park waiting to leap out on any unsuspecting pensioner!    Oh yes!  I can give date, name and time if you wish!   D)

[Llechwedd]

Oooooh.  I saw a cop in Mostyn Street on Saturday.  He had SC on his epaulettes does that mean Special?  He was all of 4'12" and his helmet almiost as big.

[Fester]

A couple of points.  The forum is indeed for light-hearted banter but it's also here to be a potential force for change for the better in the local communities it serves. Topic side-tracking is a frequent issue that crops up, and Dave and I keep an eye on all the topics to see if the asides are taking over the topic or becoming the topic.  If it's the latter, I split the topic and shunt the asides into 'Games and Jokes", which seems to work reasonably well.

Some topics, however, are important enough to warrant serious and aside-free debates, and in the case of the Policing Matters topic, where we've been lucky enough to have a serving Police Officer become involved, then I think we have to respect the fact that the topic in question needs to become focussed and aside-free.

THE ABOVE was a comment by Ian on 24th October.  I refer to PC Mike Smith's policing thread.
A serious thread, from a well meaning and EFFECTIVE police officer seems to have been demolished.
I'm disappointed that a guy, in his own style, trying to do some good, has been 'picked off' until he has had to admit defeat.
I don't see why a more impersonal approach, in a more informal style had to be criticised until it collapsed.

We complain when the Police are seen to be 'by the book' or jobsworths... but as soon as one officer attempts a different approach, it gets criticised to destruction by the very people it was designed to help.

Never mind, as Homer Simpson says..... ''If something is difficult, never try''.

[Yorkie]

As I seem to have been the main person offering comments in response to PC Smith's entries on the Forum I suppose I should feel some responsibility for his decision.

I do not!   

I, like everyone else on this Forum, have read his posts and taken in some of the serious aspects that he has chosen to mention.   However, in certain instances I disagreed with his manner and approach to the problem, incident or the conclusion he has reached.   Accordingly, I chose to put my view of the situation, as indeed did others.  If PC Smith, you, or indeed any other Member of the Forum, felt that what he, or I said was wrong and worthy of further debate, then you all had the opportunity to do so.  I have not seen many comments until today!

I believed in everything I said.  What I said was done without malice and in an effort to add balance to the debate.  If you are content to listen to only one opinion and accept every comment from the Police Officer as a fair reflection of every situation he discusses, then so be it.  I probably have a different outlook to his comments and despite his position and his conclusions, I am still entitled to my own judgement and thereby my opinion, and right to comment.

PC Smith also had the option to contact me via a PM, he chose not to do so.   He has now left the Forum which was his choice.  I certainly have no objection to his use of the Forum to enhance relationships twixt the Force and the Public or to assist in the detection of crime.   All I would suggest is that he restricts certain comments to the facts as they exist, respect the privacy of his "clients" and refrains from passing judgements in advance.  The requirements of PACE should always be considered.

If the Officer is unable to take or accept comments from the public, be it me or someone else, then he has made the right choice.

[Fester]

Yorkie, You have no reason at all to feel responsible for Mike ''leaving'' the Forum....

Your comments (and those of others) might well have led him to make the decision to discontinue his thread... but there can be no issue with taking the stance you did, challenging whatever you wish or exercise your right to you opinion.

Hell, no one makes more extreme comments on this forum than me.  Sometimes toungue in cheek, and sometimes in deadly earnest.

My only regret is that Mike didn't simply ignore any comments he didn't agree with (which is his right to do) rise above them, and press on regardless.

He dipped his toe in the water...it was initially warm and inviting.... then it turned distinctly cold....Brrr,    so he stepped away... as I would have done.

 



 

[Yorkie]

I was delighted to see in today's news that hundreds of thousands of tax payers money will be saved as funding for all the "odd" Police minority groups is being withdrawn.

I never could understand why those who are supposed to be above predjudice have to have the Gay Police Group, the Black Group, the Christian Group, the Womens Group, the Muslim Group or any other Group.  Interesting point is that there has never been a White Police Group - I wonder why?  Probably it would have been seen as non-PC, if you'll pardon the pun!

I often wondered if the Police Officers who were Members of these various groups could carry out their duties without discriminating in any way!  To my mind it is a good thing that funding has been withdrawn, we shall now see if these Groups even continue in being!  What was their purpose if it was nothing more than to show themselves as separate to their fellow Officers and the Public?

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/236145/Joy-for-beat-bobbies-as-minority-police-groups-lose-funding

[Ian]

Interesting point is that there has never been a White Police Group - I wonder why?

Because white Police officers are already a dominant majority. The other groups to which you refer are not, and the thinking is that they require group representation partly to ensure a relative freedom from prejudice, bigotry and victimisation but mainly to ensure representation in a body which has seen its fair share of allegations with regard to racism, sexism and bigotry.

[Yorkie]

Except, of course, in certain pockets of the Country such as Barking, Bradford and to a lesser degree in parts of our major conurbations (e.g. Birmingham) where the pendulum is fast swinging the opposite way!  Such may be the reason for the funding to be withdrawn.  Why indeed, should the taxpayer pay for such groups which after all are akin to Trades Union?

And is, or was, there ever any bigotry, victimisation or prejudice against ethnic minority Policemen from fellow officers, white or coloured, anymore than there was any prejudice, bigotry or discrimination etc. against white officers?  I don't think so.