Three Towns Forum
The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on September 14, 2010, 08:31:55 am
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There's a fair amount of debate about PCSOs at the moment. What do we think of them?
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They do perform a useful duty, if only in the sense of providing a visible presence on the streets, but whether that function could provided more economically in another way is up for debate. Seeing photos of them on Oscar's blog roller skating or building sandcastles certainly does them no favours. :o
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I would have thought building rapor with the general public, particularly youngsters, is an essential part of policing. Know your public, know what's going on.
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I would have thought building rapor with the general public, particularly youngsters, is an essential part of policing. Know your public, know what's going on.
I'm with you Dave on this one. If you want the public's support then you have to associate with them, and if this means participating in public social and business events, then that is the right thing to do. At least by doing these sort of things they are visible. The general criticism is that you never see them.
"Damned if they do, damned if they don't".
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They do perform a useful duty, if only in the sense of providing a visible presence on the streets, but whether that function could provided more economically in another way is up for debate. Seeing photos of them on Oscar's blog roller skating or building sandcastles certainly does them no favours. :o
They do perform a useful duty.
A member of my family was a special last year, she was asked to do 16hrs a week. She enjoyed it at first however a few months in, they asked her to carry out a surveillance operation on a house, the problem was, she knew the occupants and they knew her. Now considering the surveillance was for class A dealing from the premises, can you imagine the reprocussions of that, there she is sat in a police car round the corner,taking notes. surely if your required to do this type of thing it can't be in your local area.
She said most weeks she was doing the police paper work which theres mountains of. Maybe thats why we hardly see them. She has since left.
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Its a bit like having our own version of "The Ferret" being on here
Now ther's a name to conjour with! L0L L0L L0L
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Its a bit like having our own version of "The Ferret" being on here
Now ther's a name to conjour with! L0L L0L L0L
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Its a bit like having our own version of "The Ferret" being on here
Now ther's a name to conjour with! L0L L0L L0L
?{}?
?{}?
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Whilst I appreciate the sentiments of PC Smith I do not condone the request that Alice (whoever she may be) should be the eyes and the ears of HM Constabulary. )*)&
There is nothing better than seeing the long arm of the Law doing its work by showing their presence in and around the community. They get trained and paid for it, WE are the ones who supply the money. >>>
What a negative response to a really good bit of pro active policing. We might be the ones that supply the money (20% less soon) but we don't supply enough to cover everywhere at once.The police have always needed the help of the general public and always will.
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What a negative reponse indeed .
I have contacted CBC and Arriva and Adsel all by email and not one thing has been done about this situation in fact it seemed a case of just passing the buck ,not one of them wanted to take responsibilty for the shelter.
I am sorry Yorkie but I dont like seeing pensioners and mums with kids having to wait for a bus in such dirty surroundings or having to wait there and be subjected to unreasonable behavior and have to listen to foul language ,if by posting on here as was suggested in the following paragraph
((((This thread has been set up at the request of PC2364 Mike Smith, who is the new Police Community Beat Manager for the Craig y Don, West Shore and Great Orme areas of Llandudno, in order that he can interact with residents on policing matters relating to those areas.)))) and getting something done about has upset you then perhaps this isnt the forum for me.
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Sorry Alice - my comments were not aimed at you, and I suggest you read it again. I was objecting to the suggestion that you should basically be a full time informant as to what goes on in the shelter.
I quite agree that any help we get to improve our environment is worthwhile.
If I have offended you then I apologise unreservedly!
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The Police have been using informers in one way, shape or form, ever since Sir Robert Peel formed The Met in 1829.
"I do not condone the request that Alice (whoever she may be)" I know what you really wanted to say here Yorkie! :D
It's a pity this thread has been reduced to Roy Chubby Brown , who's level of humour is somewhere between the toilet pan and the sewer.
I have a feeling this thread might have just run aground as a result and it's a great shame. The community need public spirited individuals who are prepared to stand up and be counted and are not afraid of reporting illegal or anti social behaviour.
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I might be wrong but I thought this Forum was a light hearted view of current goings on in and around our communities. "People who want to stand up and be counted,...not afraid of reporting illegal or anti-social bahaviour" already have a site and a phone number its called Crime Stoppers. I know that sounds flippant but I think Trojan was only making a joke Dave.
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The community need public spirited individuals who are prepared to stand up and be counted and are not afraid of reporting illegal or anti social behaviour.
There are many Public Spirited individuals in the Community, but I think a lot of them are disappointed with the quality of policing that we are receiving for the very large amount of money it costs. And yet at the next turn they are wanting us to almost do their jobs for them. I don't mind reporting crime when I see it but often reports of crime go unheeded and all one gets is an Incident Number but no positive action is taken. Just ask the many people who have had burglaries or who have had their car vandalised or broken into.
The Police nowadays are burdened with paperwork and the need for political correctness and do not have the time to deal with the plethora of incidents in the community. The only thing they are good at is using their cameras and radar guns to catch the erring motorist.
Although some of the points you make maybe valid a negative stance towards any positive initiative will certainly not bring about any change
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It's a pity this thread has been reduced to Roy Chubby Brown , who's level of humour is somewhere between the toilet pan and the sewer.
I have a feeling this thread might have just run aground as a result and it's a great shame. The community need public spirited individuals who are prepared to stand up and be counted and are not afraid of reporting illegal or anti social behaviour.
I might be wrong but I thought this Forum was a light hearted view of current goings on in and around our communities. "People who want to stand up and be counted,...not afraid of reporting illegal or anti-social bahaviour" already have a site and a phone number its called Crime Stoppers. I know that sounds flippant but I think Trojan was only making a joke Dave.
I'm sure Trojan was making a joke, although not a particularly funny one.I wasn't too impressed with the implication that there is something unworthy of "informers"
Crimestoppers is only one means of communicating with the police. Lots of people are not sure that their "problem" is worthy of reporting. PC Smith has obviously identified that in local forums such as this, individuals are more likely to discuss issues that they feel unable to deal with personally. In this particular case anti social behaviour in a bus shelter. I can understand why Alice was reluctant to phone 999 and I am delighted to see that as a result of this forum some action was taken and the problem hopefully resolved for good.
In term of this forum being a light hearted view of current goings on, well in some things it may well be and should be but I hardly think implications of political corruption and the like fall in to that category. There are not that many regular contributors to the forum, I'm certainly not, but,In my humble opinion, contributors should be encouraged and not be made the butt of a unfunny joke .
Edit: I sorted out the problem with the quotes. DaveR
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Erm whats In my humble opinion ?
Political corruption is certainly not a light hearted topic I agree, but at the end of the day, if you don't laugh you'll cry.
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In my humble opinion = In My Opinion
We do need to try and keep the jokes out of this particular thread, please, as they only result in everyone getting sidetracked. I have moved the jokier comments into the jokes thread. :)
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when I was pounding the beat some years ago! )*)&
For someone who was pounding the beat some years ago, are you saying that you did not appreciate any help or co-operation from we, the general public? If you are, I for one would be very disappointed with that view which I am sure would not be shared by many of your colleagues.
I'm with most of what Dave has said and my general view is that we are all in this together with a responsibility to help and look after each other, for the benefit of all..
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Can we talk about what happened at the Old White House?
http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2010/10/21/every-window-at-the-old-white-house-in-conwy-smashed-55243-27512765/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2010/10/21/every-window-at-the-old-white-house-in-conwy-smashed-55243-27512765/)
As everyone in Conwy knows there are members of a certain family that routinely shakedown pub landlords in the area for 'protection money' in exchange for not smashing their windows in. And now we have a Conwy pub with their windows smashed in.
Now, I know we can't name names for fear of legal retribution but how many more years are the residents of Conwy going to put up with this kind of thuggery? I understand the police are actively pursuing and prosecuting certain members of this family but it's certainly not doing a lot of good for poor Hayden and Pauline.
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How about a Policing thread for the rest of the area's Communities? It seems rather restrictive having just the one. In the interests of other residents and co-operation with the Law Enforcers perhaps all other Community Officers could be persuaded to partake in a similar way to PC Smith. *&( *&(
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$thanx$ Thanks Mike thats just what I wanted to hear .
When the young lady was being assaulted it was hard to know who to call as we didnt feel it warranted a 999 call ....or would it have?
Well....it seems EVERYONE is missing the point here.
Alice, you witnessed a female being assaulted and you did not know who to call? Are you serious?
PC Smith - "A Few fixed penalty tickets issued for drinking in the street and littering should hopefully put them off making a mess of it again".
errr....maybe so, but what about the female who was apparently assaulted? Been to obtain a statement from Alice? I would have thought an assault would have been a more urgent policing matter than getting a bus shelter in a Llandudno suburb clean, but hey, different people have different priorities I suppose.
At the end of the day, this thread so far, has resulted in the majority of posters getting excited over a bus shelter being cleaned.
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It's a pity this thread has been reduced to Roy Chubby Brown , who's level of humour is somewhere between the toilet pan and the sewer.
I have a feeling this thread might have just run aground as a result and it's a great shame. The community need public spirited individuals who are prepared to stand up and be counted and are not afraid of reporting illegal or anti social behaviour.
I might be wrong but I thought this Forum was a light hearted view of current goings on in and around our communities. "People who want to stand up and be counted,...not afraid of reporting illegal or anti-social bahaviour" already have a site and a phone number its called Crime Stoppers. I know that sounds flippant but I think Trojan was only making a joke Dave.
I'm sure Trojan was making a joke, although not a particularly funny one.I wasn't too impressed with the implication that there is something unworthy of "informers"
Crimestoppers is only one means of communicating with the police. Lots of people are not sure that their "problem" is worthy of reporting. PC Smith has obviously identified that in local forums such as this, individuals are more likely to discuss issues that they feel unable to deal with personally. In this particular case anti social behaviour in a bus shelter. I can understand why Alice was reluctant to phone 999 and I am delighted to see that as a result of this forum some action was taken and the problem hopefully resolved for good.
In term of this forum being a light hearted view of current goings on, well in some things it may well be and should be but I hardly think implications of political corruption and the like fall in to that category. There are not that many regular contributors to the forum, I'm certainly not, but,In my humble opinion, contributors should be encouraged and not be made the butt of a unfunny joke .
Edit: I sorted out the problem with the quotes. DaveR
So, Dave, how exactly was I implying that there is something untrustworthy of informers?
Yorkie wrote....Whilst I appreciate the sentiments of PC Smith I do not condone the request that Alice (whoever she may be) should be the eyes and the ears of HM Constabulary.
Then I replied.....The Police have been using informers in one way, shape or form, ever since Sir Robert Peel formed The Met in 1829.
No implication, just stating a fact.....actually.
Crimestoppers is only one means of communicating with the police. Lots of people are not sure that their "problem" is worthy of reporting. PC Smith has obviously identified that in local forums such as this, individuals are more likely to discuss issues that they feel unable to deal with personally. In this particular case anti social behaviour in a bus shelter. I can understand why Alice was reluctant to phone 999 and I am delighted to see that as a result of this forum some action was taken and the problem hopefully resolved for good.
In term of this forum being a light hearted view of current goings on, well in some things it may well be and should be but I hardly think implications of political corruption and the like fall in to that category. There are not that many regular contributors to the forum, I'm certainly not, but,In my humble opinion, contributors should be encouraged and not be made the butt of a unfunny joke .
In this particular case anti social behaviour in a bus shelter eh? But what about the female who was assaulted? Was it her boyfriend who "slapped her around?" Was it a drunken stranger, who wouldn't take NO for an answer? Is she okay? Does she have psychological scars and is afraid to go out at night now? Is she on a "missing persons" list? Is she buried in Bodafon Fields?
Has the problem REALLY been resolved for good?
I don't particularly like Roy Chubby Brown myself, was always a Tommy Cooper fan, but Roy Chubby Brown just happened to add some additional lyrics to the song Alice, which I directed personally to my long time friend Yorkie as a joke. You see, myself and Yorkie enjoy joking around from time to time.
As for implications of political corruption, I'm afraid you've lost me with that one.
I have a feeling this thread might have just run aground as a result and it's a great shame. The community need public spirited individuals who are prepared to stand up and be counted and are not afraid of reporting illegal or anti social behaviour.
Yes, but Alice WAS afraid to "stand up and be counted" and actually was afraid of reporting illegal behaviour (and anti social behaviour) by not contacting the Police directly.
A female was assaulted, but hey, a bus shelter got cleaned.
Maybe if there's a murder tomorrow, we can get some decent Christmas lights.
<:<:<:<
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A couple of points. The forum is indeed for light-hearted banter but it's also here to be a potential force for change for the better in the local communities it serves. Topic side-tracking is a frequent issue that crops up, and Dave and I keep an eye on all the topics to see if the asides are taking over the topic or becoming the topic. If it's the latter, I split the topic and shunt the asides into 'Games and Jokes", which seems to work reasonably well.
Some topics, however, are important enough to warrant serious and aside-free debates, and in the case of the Policing Matters topic, where we've been lucky enough to have a serving Police Officer become involved, then I think we have to respect the fact that the topic in question needs to become focussed and aside-free.
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Alice, you witnessed a female being assaulted and you did not know who to call? Are you serious?
I can't speak for Alice, obviously, but there is some evidence that people think carefully before using the 999 system with incidents that are not obviously dangerous. In the case in point, I'm wondering if the only 'evidence' of an assault was screaming, late at night, and whether this had become a regular occurrence near the shelter in question.
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As everyone in Conwy knows there are members of a certain family that routinely shakedown pub landlords in the area for 'protection money' in exchange for not smashing their windows in. And now we have a Conwy pub with their windows smashed in.
I have been told that his windows were put through purely and simply because Haydne refused entrance to a couple of lads. I don't know exactly which ones though. Y'see what happens is these lads take a bag full of cocaine and suddenly think they're gangsters you can spot them a mile off, Their the ones with puffed out chests like amorous pidgeons and their hands are forever down the front of their track suit pants! They are not big enough or clever enough to offer protection they just think they are if only these individuals realised that their "coke" is mixed with worming tablets and Ketamin to achieve the desired instant effects (numb gums and needing a number 2 within 15mins, I know it's gross) Conwy and the surrounding area is absolutly rife. I appreciate that the police have discovered huge hauls of cocaine and the like over the last few months and it will have an impact on our communities but we need more hands on effective policing to tackle the small time dealers in our area that are inflicting the damage now on our young people. If I were a police officer (with my record it would be impossible mind) I would start pulling the little fish from the pond too, there's nothing like seeing your mate going to prison to make you think twice, take my word for it.
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I am amazed - after all the hoo hah on another thread about informing the Police, here we have a situation where, according to Pandragon, EVERYONE in Conwy knows about these hooligans and who they are! Why are they not being reported? Why are the Police not doing something about it?
If we are so keen to assist the local constabulary then let this be a good starting place rather than an untidy bus shelter! >>>
If the Police are powerless then let the folk of Conwy start a group of Vigilantes and sort the little b******s out themselves. ££$
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I have banged on about the situation for months, years even. When I chaired the pubsafe in Conwy 5/6 years ago I told the police the drug situation was getting out of hand and the landlords were becoming increasingly concerned. Two young pcs came to the Albion and I was told "if people were taking drugs in the pub the onus was on us! ". The people dealing these drugs HAVE got connections within the police force. Not for one second am I saying the police are involved but I AM saying civillians work within the admin departments and their the ones doing the majority of the paper work. It's also one thing to know who these scroats are but entirely another to prove it and then make it stick. As for setting up a vigilant action group that too is illegal. Also whilst smashing windows is pretty pathetic it can be very costly, very frightening and virtually impossible to apprehend the culprit as in the majority of cases the scr oat is wearing a hoody and its usualy dark when this type of offence occurs. There was a spate of windows getting smashed around 4 years ago in Conwy but again, although everyone knew who did it the police could not prove a thing.
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Every single incident should be reported. A record of calls made is recorded and is inspected periodically and then something has to be done about it.
The Police have a difficult job to do and with limited resources but sometimes you wonder where the priorities lie. We discussed this under the previous forum when Llandudno Rugby Club had problems with vandalism etc. As far as I can recall nothing effective was done by the Police to combat the trouble but if a group of the front row Rugby players were lying in wait to sort the vandals out you could bet your boots that the Police would be there within minutes!
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As far as I can recall nothing effective was done by the Police to combat the trouble but if a group of the front row Rugby players were lying in wait to sort the vandals out you could bet your boots that the Police would be there within minutes!
Yes they would and then the rugby players would be at fault and probably face assult charges. Its very frustrating. For the police too I would think. There are some good coppers out there who must feel sometimes if they're not banging their heads on brick walls their getting tied up with red tape.
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What I find sad is that the prosecution of that certain family in stated in another thread has to be done by Merseyside police as the local police force has been so compromised by the family in question. The Merseyside police have been building a very good case against the senior family member and putting real pressure on him (finally).
It's also a sad state of affairs when the former interim manager of the Blue Bell stood up to the protection money intimidation by calling in a bunch of his mates to stand guard against threatened wndow smashing. But the police heard about the stand off and moved the interim manager on! Its as if the police are indeed siding with said local hoodlum gang.
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It's also a sad state of affairs when the former interim manager of the Blue Bell stood up to the protection money intimidation by calling in a bunch of his mates to stand guard against threatened window smashing
When you say that, I assume you're aware that you can give evidence provided you know all of it for a fact. If, of course, it's only hearsay, then it's largely inadmissible but I assume from the tone of what you've written that you have actually witnessed these things yourself.
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It's also a sad state of affairs when the former interim manager of the Blue Bell stood up to the protection money intimidation by calling in a bunch of his mates to stand guard against threatened window smashing
When you say that, I assume you're aware that you can give evidence provided you know all of it for a fact. If, of course, it's only hearsay, then it's largely inadmissible but I assume from the tone of what you've written that you have actually witnessed these things yourself.
Give evidence to whom? The police that stopped the interim manager from protecting his premesis? The official explanation was that the polce didn't want the protection money thugs fighting the bar staff and his friends. But the end result was the interim manager was moved on and the protectionist thugs continue to target other pubs (see what happened to the White House last week).
Its like everything else: the police know who is doing this stuff but either do not have evidence or have another reason for not stopping it.
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There are some frightening snippets of information coming out in this thread if they are true.
I wouldn't know the law but as a pub landlord there must be certain responsibilities that come with the licence,which surely includes providing a safe environment for your customers. This I would have thought meant making sure everyone behaves , doesn't drink to the point of endangering themselves or others ( and that would include knowingly letting people drive who have drunk too much too) and make it a no go area for drug taking.Presumably that was the point the two young PC's were trying to get across. Anyone who fails to stick to those rules should be refused service and asked to leave and if they won't the police need to get involved.
As I read it so far we have allegations of civilian insiders tipping off the criminals about information that passes through their hands at police HQ which is an extremely serious allegation and names should be supplied to the police if there is any truth in it.
If the former manager of the Blue Bell was prepared to stand up to attempts of extortion I presume he was prepared to speak to the police. Trapping the guilty would then have been pretty easy I would have thought. Did he do so ? It's only suggested the police got wind of a vigilante movement which they had no option but to stop. No matter how we feel, taking the law into our own hands is not an option and certainly not if the matter hasn't been passed on to the law to deal with.
The police are powerless if they don't have witnesses to come forward and tell them what is going on
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If the man on the street knows whats happening, you can't tell me the police don't. It's all fine and dandy saying "inform the police" yet convictions don't come about from annonymous tip offs do they. You'd have to make an official witness statement which could bring all manner of retrebution down on you and your families.. You also have to be aware that if you do make a statement and they plead not guilty, which they inevitably will, you'll be giving your evidence with these individuals watching you.
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If the man on the street knows whats happening, you can't tell me the police don't. It's all fine and dandy saying "inform the police" yet convictions don't come about from annonymous tip offs do they. You'd have to make an official witness statement which could bring all manner of retrebution down on you and your families.. You also have to be aware that if you do make a statement and they plead not guilty, which they inevitably will, you'll be giving your evidence with these individuals watching you.
You have just summed up the state of play Pendragon !
The police are being called ineffective . It's all very well typing our thoughts and allegations under the anonymity of an internet forum, but what are they expected to do if they don't have evidence or witnesses ?
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What I find sad is that the prosecution of that certain family in stated in another thread has to be done by Merseyside police as the local police force has been so compromised by the family in question. The Merseyside police have been building a very good case against the senior family member and putting real pressure on him (finally).
So, are the North Wales Police really that ineffective?
I think you will find North Wales Police have been working in conjunction with Merseyside Police, as the majority of illegal drugs comes into North Wales via Merseyside if you get my drift.
As an aside, there's also numerous Liverpool fans residing in North Wales.
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Its like everything else: the police know who is doing this stuff but either do not have evidence or have another reason for not stopping it.
It's often down to a lack of evidence. And if folk won't testify to what they have witnessed, then what can the Police do?
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Trojan said: "I think you will find North Wales Police have been working in conjunction with Merseyside Police, as the majority of illegal drugs comes into North Wales via Merseyside if you get my drift."
One of the main efforts of Police is Drugs because it is an easy crime to detect, they know where the dealers operate, and the users are easy to find. Despite all the efforts to clean up the drug scene over the past 40 or 50 years very little has been achieved.
Much other effort is directed at the motorist, not just with GATSO's but with a plethora of marked and many unmarked police vehicles patrolling the main roads of the Country.
They know of the problems in Conwy, not just the town but the County as a whole; they know all the petty criminals and the hot spots of crime, so why are there not more arrests and more convictions? It can only be due to inefficiency of management or the lack of police on the beat, maybe caused by the great amount of paperwork, most of which is probably inessential.
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I might be cutting across the general drift of the thread here. I have just waded through all the posts right from the start---trying to understand the points of view of the various contributers and who is right and who is maybe wrong. But-------I had to go back through them to try and make some sense and I then realised that part of my trouble was because I had skimmed the names, didnt look at the ranks etc. So I confused Dave, a fairly newcomer, with DaveR, definately not a newcomer.I appreciate both are equally entitled to their own names. But, do you think it would make sense for the forum to rule that there should be some differentation if members wish to have very similar user names? Mike (and I know there are thousands of other Mikes around, even some famous Michael Owen)
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Trojan said: "I think you will find North Wales Police have been working in conjunction with Merseyside Police, as the majority of illegal drugs comes into North Wales via Merseyside if you get my drift."
One of the main efforts of Police is Drugs because it is an easy crime to detect, they know where the dealers operate, and the users are easy to find. Despite all the efforts to clean up the drug scene over the past 40 or 50 years very little has been achieved.
Much other effort is directed at the motorist, not just with GATSO's but with a plethora of marked and many unmarked police vehicles patrolling the main roads of the Country.
They know of the problems in Conwy, not just the town but the County as a whole; they know all the petty criminals and the hot spots of crime, so why are there not more arrests and more convictions? It can only be due to inefficiency of management or the lack of police on the beat, maybe caused by the great amount of paperwork, most of which is probably inessential.
The Court system has to play their part too. How many times have you heard of the Police securing convictions, only to have the convicted person given a suspended sentence, or a fine, which puts them back on the streets doing the same things as they were before?
This, in my opinion would be frustrating to the Police, who put a lot of time and effort into securing convictions and may lead to a "why bother...they will be back on the street before long" attitude.
A good deterrent is what's needed, to make individuals think twice before committing a crime.
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i am an advocate for naming and shaming, it might not stop them but it might deter others from following a similar route
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But, do you think it would make sense for the forum to rule that there should be some differentiation if members wish to have very similar user names?
That's the function of the avatars, Mike. Which doesn't work, of course, if you read the posts in list view - the view that arrives when you've just clicked on 'reply'.
It's only going to increase as the forum membership grows, which it's continuing to do, so I think all we can do is to ask folk to always choose a distinctive avatar to help with identification.
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A good deterrent is what's needed, to make individuals think twice before committing a crime.
And at stroke you've identified the crux of the problems which have faced societies since civilisation began. What constitutes a 'good deterrent'?
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If the former manager of the Blue Bell was prepared to stand up to attempts of extortion I presume he was prepared to speak to the police. Trapping the guilty would then have been pretty easy I would have thought. Did he do so ? It's only suggested the police got wind of a vigilante movement which they had no option but to stop. No matter how we feel, taking the law into our own hands is not an option and certainly not if the matter hasn't been passed on to the law to deal with.
The police are powerless if they don't have witnesses to come forward and tell them what is going on
The former landlord of the Blue Bell did tell the police they were being extorted. The police told them that if there was any trouble (ie if someone shows up in the middle of the night smashing windows) the landlord should call them and they would investigate.
As has been demonstrated by what happend at the Old White House every single window of that pub was smashed in a total of 19 seconds. Do you really think the police can respond in that time? Even with the CCTV footage handed to the north wales police at the Old White House no arrests have been made.
So the former Blue Bell landlord decided to not to wait for the extortionists to smash their windows and instead called in a few rough mates to stand guard. The police decided that having pub windows smashed or paying the extortionists was better than a confrontation and told the former Blue Bell manager to stand down. He did so and left Conwy in disgust.
Everybody in Conwy knows who smashed up the Old White House and there is even CCTV footage of the event. And yet there are no arrests. I'm sure the north wales police will shrug their shoulders and say 'there's not enough evidence to prosecute' yet again and this family will continue to extort pubs just like they have been doing for years and years and years. Of course the 'not enough evidence' excuse can work a few times over a couple of years but after it's been this long you really have to wonder why there is not enough evidence and why the police refuse to prosecute....
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i am an advocate for naming and shaming, it might not stop them but it might deter others from following a similar route
I disagree. It woud be too easy for someone with a grudge against someone else to post their name and make up stories about what they have or haven't done. This could start a snowballing rumour against an innocent person.
I am very careful not to state anybody's name. The issue here is about police effectivness and the difficulties faced by them prosecuting.
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Even with the CCTV footage handed to the north wales police at the Old White House no arrests have been made.
I saw a still from the CCTV footage in the Daily Post on Saturday and it looked to be very poor quality - I can't see how it could be used as evidence in anything. Businesses like pubs need to have the latest cctv equipment and make sure it works properly.
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i am an advocate for naming and shaming, it might not stop them but it might deter others from following a similar route
I disagree. It woud be too easy for someone with a grudge against someone else to post their name and make up stories about what they have or haven't done. This could start a snowballing rumour against an innocent person.
I am very careful not to state anybody's name. The issue here is about police effectivness and the difficulties faced by them prosecuting.
I'd agree with that. Just to add that we cannot have any names published on the Forum, as that would be libellous.
Anyone with information relating to the perpetrators of a crime should contact the local Police:
http://www.north-wales.police.uk/nwpv2/en/nptSearch/wardResults.asp?ID=13&WID=C05 (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/nwpv2/en/nptSearch/wardResults.asp?ID=13&WID=C05)
or Crimestoppers:
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/in-your-area/wales (http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/in-your-area/wales)
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If the former manager of the Blue Bell was prepared to stand up to attempts of extortion I presume he was prepared to speak to the police. Trapping the guilty would then have been pretty easy I would have thought. Did he do so ? It's only suggested the police got wind of a vigilante movement which they had no option but to stop. No matter how we feel, taking the law into our own hands is not an option and certainly not if the matter hasn't been passed on to the law to deal with.
The police are powerless if they don't have witnesses to come forward and tell them what is going on
The former landlord of the Blue Bell did tell the police they were being extorted. The police told them that if there was any trouble (ie if someone shows up in the middle of the night smashing windows) the landlord should call them and they would investigate.
As has been demonstrated by what happend at the Old White House every single window of that pub was smashed in a total of 19 seconds. Do you really think the police can respond in that time? Even with the CCTV footage handed to the north wales police at the Old White House no arrests have been made.
So the former Blue Bell landlord decided to not to wait for the extortionists to smash their windows and instead called in a few rough mates to stand guard. The police decided that having pub windows smashed or paying the extortionists was better than a confrontation and told the former Blue Bell manager to stand down. He did so and left Conwy in disgust.
Everybody in Conwy knows who smashed up the Old White House and there is even CCTV footage of the event. And yet there are no arrests. I'm sure the north wales police will shrug their shoulders and say 'there's not enough evidence to prosecute' yet again and this family will continue to extort pubs just like they have been doing for years and years and years. Of course the 'not enough evidence' excuse can work a few times over a couple of years but after it's been this long you really have to wonder why there is not enough evidence and why the police refuse to prosecute....
Interesting stuff. I am sure we would all like to know the Police's perspective on what you have reported.
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I'd agree with that. Just to add that we cannot have any names published on the Forum, as that would be libellous.
It would only be libelous, or constitute an offence against the Defamation Act, if it were untrue. If the comment will stand up to proof there is no problem.
Defamation Law is quite interesting and worth a read.
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I'd agree with that. Just to add that we cannot have any names published on the Forum, as that would be libellous.
It would only be libelous, or constitute an offence against the Defamation Act, if it were untrue. If the comment will stand up to proof there is no problem.
Defamation Law is quite interesting and worth a read.
That may be the case but the Admins are not in a position to be able to prove the validity or otherwise of any allegation, therefore we have no option but to remove all potentially libellous comments.
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Of course, I do realise that - I was merely outlining the legal standpoint! ZXZ
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It would only be libelous, or constitute an offence against the Defamation Act, if it were untrue. If the comment will stand up to proof there is no problem.
Neither is it quite that simple. I refer the honourable member to the case of one Jeffrey Archer, who sued and won substantial damages over an alleged libel some years ago (Archer sued the Daily Star. The case came to court in July 1987. Archer won the case and was awarded £500,000 damages.). On 26 September 2000, he was charged with perjury and perverting the course of justice during the 1987 libel trial.
The perjury trial began on 30 May 2001 and Archer was found guilty of perjury and perverting the course of justice at the 1987 trial. He was sentenced to four years' imprisonment by Mr Justice Potts.
This was a celebrated case, but there are doubtless many others, of which we never hear.
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Everybody in Conwy knows who smashed up the Old White House
Do they? Really?
It's never ceased to amaze me how 'everyone knows' something yet when prod comes to impale the 'everyone' suddenly becomes a 'few', and most of those 'heard it from a mate'.
If there's evidence, the culprits can be done. Simple. If - on the other hand - it's simply 'pub gossip' - and we all know how reliable that can be - then it's no surprise, surely, that no one's been caught.
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and this family will continue to extort pubs just like they have been doing for years and years and years.
I think this is getting blown out of proportion were not dealing with gangsters and the like. get a grip. were dealing with small time t*ssers. Neither do I believe that pubs in Conwy are under threat from extortionists, I mean has any one asked the other landlords in Conwy if they know of a protection raquet. Well I HAVE and there isn't one. Basically the Blue Bell has a high turnover of landlords and manangers, some of the lads try to intimidate the new licensees but this happens in any pub you take over, you'll suddenly find you have a bar full of pubsafe members simply because they know you don't know them from Adam. Ken (landlord now, really nice guy) was asked if he needed door staff, being an ex Outlaw and well connected he said no. Nothing was said about protection just door staff. That came from the horses mouth. Hayden had his windows put through because he upset a couple of lads by not allowing them in one weekend. I'm not condoning their actions far from it, but to insinuate that this is all some big protection racket is ridiculous it also gives all these "no marks" more noteriety which is the last thing anyone wants. Incidentally as I understand it the last manager in the blue bell left as drugs were rife in there and he could not curb it on his own with no help from the police, he was told his windows were going to get smashed as he wouldn't turn a blind eye to the dealing going on in there.
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Where I was brought up we had a couple of lads who started out just as the kids here are going on. They finished up in clink eventually and were so notorious they had a film made about them. Their family name only had four letters - K R A Y - nuff said! $uk
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and this family will continue to extort pubs just like they have been doing for years and years and years.
I think this is getting blown out of proportion were not dealing with gangsters and the like. get a grip. were dealing with small time t*ssers. Neither do I believe that pubs in Conwy are under threat from extortionists, I mean has any one asked the other landlords in Conwy if they know of a protection raquet. Well I HAVE and there isn't one. Basically the Blue Bell has a high turnover of landlords and manangers, some of the lads try to intimidate the new licensees but this happens in any pub you take over, you'll suddenly find you have a bar full of pubsafe members simply because they know you don't know them from Adam. Ken (landlord now, really nice guy) was asked if he needed door staff, being an ex Outlaw and well connected he said no. Nothing was said about protection just door staff. That came from the horses mouth. Hayden had his windows put through because he upset a couple of lads by not allowing them in one weekend. I'm not condoning their actions far from it, but to insinuate that this is all some big protection racket is ridiculous it also gives all these "no marks" more noteriety which is the last thing anyone wants. Incidentally as I understand it the last manager in the blue bell left as drugs were rife in there and he could not curb it on his own with no help from the police, he was told his windows were going to get smashed as he wouldn't turn a blind eye to the dealing going on in there.
The new landlords of the Bridge were threatened by the same people.
The last landlords of the Albiion were threatened by the same people
The Old White House landlords were not only threatened but gave into the threats by these people. I was told this directly by the landlords in question.
The Bridge said no and the Albion said no and banned those people from their pubs and received many very scary threats. The Old White House mistakenly submitted to the threats and the extortionists started hanging out at the pub which forced the few regulars elsewhere.
None of this is news, the police have been told all about this and yet have done nothing except say 'call if there is trouble'.
Yes it is small time thugs doing this but that doesn't make it any more scary for those involved. Putting it down to a few kids is a big mistake especially considering the patriarch of the family involved is being investigated for very serious charges for a range of long term criminal activities.
There are people in town who are very scared of these people who will not give evidence and others who are indirectly benefitting from their activies so provide a level of protection. This criminal family is embedded into the local economy in such a way that it would be surprising if members of the north wales police were not some how involved.
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It would only be libelous, or constitute an offence against the Defamation Act, if it were untrue. If the comment will stand up to proof there is no problem.
Neither is it quite that simple. I refer the honourable member to the case of one Jeffrey Archer, who sued and won substantial damages over an alleged libel some years ago (Archer sued the Daily Star. The case came to court in July 1987. Archer won the case and was awarded £500,000 damages.). On 26 September 2000, he was charged with perjury and perverting the course of justice during the 1987 libel trial.
The perjury trial began on 30 May 2001 and Archer was found guilty of perjury and perverting the course of justice at the 1987 trial. He was sentenced to four years' imprisonment by Mr Justice Potts.
This was a celebrated case, but there are doubtless many others, of which we never hear.
Whilst I respect the opinion of my Most Learned Friend, it must, of course, be realised that whilst Archer committed perjury at the initial trial this was unknown to the trial Judge and the case was, correctly at that time, and based on the evidence presented, found to be proved. It was only at a later date, on the evidence of perjury having been committed that he was found guilty of that offence and convicted and punished accordingly.
And this is the 'onest tr oof Guv'! L0L
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Ah yes, but it does go to show that the truth - as such - has little bearing on your safety when defending a libel case. The real truth only emerged when Archer's mistress decided she'd had enough.
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Where I was brought up we had a couple of lads who started out just as the kids here are going on. They finished up in clink eventually and were so notorious they had a film made about them. Their family name only had four letters - K R A Y - nuff said! $uk
There were a couple of notorious brothers south of the river around that time too!
Their family name had ten letters - R I C H A R D S O N - nuff said!
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Interesting history of the Krays and the lesser known Richardsons at:
http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/The_Richardson_Gang (http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/The_Richardson_Gang)
Worth a read. *&(
More than enuff said! ;D
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More than enuff said! ;D
:-X
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Watch the video of a great interview with Frankie.
LiveLeak.com - Interview with Mad Frankie Fraser (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e40_1258680264)
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Coming back to Police effectiveness, he did spend half his life behind bars.
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Good point.
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I think it is disgusting for the person's picture to be put on a PUBLIC FORUM by the North Wales Police.
Will Police Constable Smith now please publish the picture of every other person who has been tried and convisted of ANY offence in the County of Conwy? That at least will keep the playing field even!
I consider the request for people to grass on the individual tantamount to victimisation.
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Sorry you feel that way Yorkie.
However, his photo and the conditions will soon be on posters displayed in public areas.
This particular person has had many chances to accept help but he has declined.
Sadly his own behaviour has caused him to end up on an Anti Social Behaviour Order which means that his photo and conditions are available to the General Public.
No victimisation, just a concern for the safety of the people who live in the areas i Police.
He is actually a very pleasant chap when sober and hopefully this order will keep him that way.
With regards to photos of of every person convicted of any offence, that is not possible, However those on these types of orders have always been published in the Public domain.
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Quite frankly what he has done is immaterial as is the fact that he will now be pictured all over the community as per Mr Gizzi style.
I am complaining about his being put on this Forum which, although available to the public, is funded and administered privately.
The forum is for discussion and the passing of opinions and comments, not to publicly launch police publicity about those who have been tried, convicted and handed out their punishment.
Why not be positive, as you have previously preached, and give the person a chance to reform?
Please no more white wash, putting him on this Forum is VICTIMISATION as it has been done by you personally, in addition to the punishment handed down by the Court.
We have been advised not to post personal details about Members, this should be extended to all members of the public irrespective of their position in our society.
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I have to agree with Yorkie. This is not the place for peoples photos. Even regarding Pub safe offenders their photos have to be kept behind the bar and only those who have signed the data protection forms can access them. The difference here is............... what exactly????
Bang out of order.........sorry mate. You do a grand job but this is not on.
if you can put this lads mug shot on here, then you should be putting everyone's mug shot on here (which is not acceptable or fair.) You have the North Wales police site for that.
People in Rhyl and Colwyn Bay have complained so much the mug shots of Gizzi and Co have been taken down.
This lad is nowhere near in their league is he?
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I don't need to speak for PC Mike, of course, but the idea of a CRASBO is that the community is made fully aware of the individual and what they are prohibited from doing etc. As such, full details of the Offender are made public, posters issued etc.
Found this link all about them: http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/currentIssues/WPASBOs/CRASBOs (http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/currentIssues/WPASBOs/CRASBOs)
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Does it have to be on here though Dave? Will it be in tomorrows Weekly News? Or on Oscars? No probably not.
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So this chap who has a bit too much to drink is a criminal? In my day the offence was simply being drunk and disorderly. Regular attendance in Court would result in a period in the slammer befitting the offence or continued offending.
We are all in some way in the public domain and PC Smith is, purely by virtue of his position, more in the public domain than others. How would he feel if his mug shot was plastered all over local Forums and Blogs? Not too happy I'm sure and would be issuing writs all over the place.
I believe that Bugsy, on application to the Court, could have this reference to him removed from this Forum. Check out the Human Rights Act, Artcles 3,7 and 8 for a start.
Any positive opinion of PC Smith and the North Wales Police I ever had has been totally negated by this matter. Unlike the good Samaritan I shall now be passing on the other side, and I'm sure you know what that means! (PC Smith will. )
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With respect, Yorkie, you've never met him. I've known him for 20+ years and he's fine when he's sober but a complete monster when drunk. He can be very intimidating indeed - would you wish your wife to meet him when he was drunk and be subjected to a tirade of abuse and threats that would leave her terrified? I hardly think so. He's far from being the stereotypical amiable drunk slumped on a park bench, I'm afraid!
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Well if he has been like that for 20 years, it speaks very poorly of the country we live in!
The man is ill, and probably has been ill for some considerable time. He needs help not castergatiing!
I am reminded of the first lines of the Police Manual - "The PRIMARY OBJECT of an efficient Police is the PREVENTION of Crime .........." words I have never forgotten since I joined the Force over 50 years ago.
Maybe earlier action by the Police could have put this man on the road ro recovery many moons ago. No-one is a hopeless case it just takes perseverence by those who care. It seems that he has not been given that chance, unless someone can advise me otherwise.
How do you know I haven't met him? I have lived in Llandudno for the last 23 years and I certainly don't walk round with my eyes closed. Also as a Councillor and working for the Local Authority one does glean a great deal of local knowledge.
Finally, despite her petite frame, my wife is perfectly capable of taking care of herself, but generally would not allow herself to be put in such a position.
Perhaps we could be treated to further comment from the PC?
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You'd certainly remember if you had met him! Hugo isn't likely to forget meeting him...
"We had been talking for about 10 minutes when a scruffy individual came walking up the middle of the road talking to himself. He went around us and sat on the fire escape of the property we were standing by and then told us to F*** Off for no apparent reason. I asked him did he live in the property to which he replied that he didn't so I very politely told him that perhaps he should do the same. He then became abusive and aggresive so this man I had been talking to and I both walked away from a confrontation."
Richard has had a hundred chances and blown every one of them, sadly.
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Let me get this straight, because at the moment I'm pretty :o
Somebody has a drink problem, and the North Wales Police think the best way to deal with that problem is to publicly humiliate him on an internet forum? Yeah that's not going to make somebody with a problem want to have a drink even more than ever now is it?
Perhaps on the weekend you could wrap him up in chains and parade him around the town centre, maybe you could also ring a huge bell as you walk him through the streets, then everyone can notice him and "watch out for him in future"?
As we're getting the forum involved why not have a competition for users to design the best wooden placard that we can wrap around his neck.
Glad to see my tax money is being well spent, really appreciate it. Perhaps you can kick a few tramps in the balls for us on your next rounds as well PC Smith, really show them unfortunate buggars who's boss.
$thanx$
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It seems to me that the problem was with the large photograph on here, I could see nothing wrong with the update, you were just informing us of the news, perhaps a smaller picture would not have received the same reaction?
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I'm not saying the guy's not a nightmare, what i'm saying is this forum is not an extension of the North Wales Police site. The photo is not displayed there, why?This forum is one of the most popular in the area and I feel the police are using that fact to their advantage. How many more of the Three Towns criminals will be put on here, Gizzi, Creamer ...............no just the homeless alcoholics. Our posts will be moderated for mentioning names.....yet they can publish photos! I'm not impressed, I think it's wrong. :rage:
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There is nothing wrong with the update Mike, its the photo I object to, would it be better if you kept these people on file, which you do anyway , then if someone wants a photo and its legal to do so, then PM it or email it to them. This is a public domain at the end of the day and this type of publicity could make the lad a target. Which is simply not fair, given he obviously has a few issues already.
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As you can see the post has been removed.
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I understand your point on the courts etc Mike. As I said it's the photo being banded across local forums etc, I have a problem with, just the photo. Maybe NW Police should devise a portal on their site designed specifically for that purpose?
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This is an interesting issue, and one from which I've stood back before becoming involved, as I wanted to see how the current flowed.
What Mike - in conjunction with the ASBO regulations - did was implement the 21st century version of the stocks. Interestingly, if you visit Unemployment and Benefits (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=179.0) there's quite a contrast in opinion emerging.
In there, various epithets such as 'scum', 'vermin' and scroungers' have been bandied about, with some suggestions of deportation, the birch, shooting and compulsory sterilisation, to name but four. What I suspect has caused the uproar here, however, is the clear and precise identification of an individual. Unfortunately, whether it's considered right or wrong, it does contravene our Ts and Cs but my main concern is that it sets a dangerous precedent.
Mike: I think everyone would be happy if you were to post a direct link to the image hosted on the North Wales' Police site itself, but displaying the image itself with details of the individual is possibly not the wisest course of action. But thanks for being so responsive to comments in here and the work you do.
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Thank you Ian. You have saved me posting another comment and defused what could have turned into a rather heated debate.
Despite my reaction to this episode I admire PC Smith's initiative in getting news to the populous - however I think that local Forums and Blogs must be used with caution when disseminating sensitive information, especially when it could have an ongoing effect on those in the news.
I am pleased to see the post has been removed and maybe it would be a good idea for PC Smith to run future articles across the bows of the Admins first, and thereby ensure such a situation will not be repeated. Not Censorship - just common sense!
$thanx$
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Mike without doubt you do an excellent job. The comments left to your posts on this forum are a testament to that. I hope you haven't taken my criticisms personally as they were not directed at you. Following up with updates on local policing issues and how these issues have been resolved is much appreciated.
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pendragon.no i dont take the criticisms personally.i have alot worse happen to me on duty each day and am in the wrong job to be over sensitive.
the reason this post was not on the nwp national site i would imagine is that it is used and viewed by people from all over North Wales and from lots of other parts of the world.i suppose publishing it on there would be a bit disproportionate.
now of course i know that this forum can be seen by the same amount of people but the thread is localised and tends to be mainly people from the local area which are precisely the people who i believe need to know more information about offenders living amongst them.
i live locally and have young children and putting aside my job,
as a father i am happy that information like this is available and also the new sex offenders information being made available to concerned parents/carers.it is my own personal belief that we are moving in the right direction and that by the info being more readily available will act as more of a deterrent to some than a potential day at court.
however.that is my own opinion and not necessarily that of the organisation or any other nwp officers.
****edited with apologies to pendragon****
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erm....................Snapdragon? would that be one of those freudian slips then ;D
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I don't need to speak for PC Mike, of course, but the idea of a CRASBO is that the community is made fully aware of the individual and what they are prohibited from doing etc. As such, full details of the Offender are made public, posters issued etc.
So what was the point of putting posters up of The Gizzi Gang? All now behind bars and no danger to the public. Just the NWP wanting to grasp every nettle of publicity in order to justify their existance and con the public that they are being successful in fighting crime.
The easy option is prosecuting the poor old motorist which they do constantly.
erm....................Snapdragon? would that be one of those freudian slips then ;D
Just the usual "attention to detail" - Wrong person could easily be arrested - don't fret about it, Flower!
L0L
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Ah thanks
PYorkie...............I feel better now _))*
:-*
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Gosh I'm amazed. We have a police force here in Llandudno???? Well come to think of it I did see a confused constable wandering down Mostyn Street on Christmas eve in well let me see, oh yes 2009. They say they are reducing personnel from nothing to nothing - hmm very impressiver. We must be a law abiding lot.
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I've seen quite a few Police officers in Llandudno, although only once in Penrhyn Bay (not counting Police cars)
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There is one Police Car comes to Penrhryn Bay and the Officer hides in the Health Centre car park waiting to follow and catch anyone that he wishes. I won't embarrass him by putting his name and picture on here! L0L
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Ha! I go away for a couple of days and it all kicks off over Bugsy!
I can say 'Bugsy' because its a nickname only, and it remains on an earlier posting on this thread.
This character should have been WAY past the ASBO stage by now. Its down to the tolerance of the Police (or lack of resource maybe) that he has got away with so much on a regular basis.
I have used phrases like Scum,and Vermin on other threads to describe ''similar'' individuals.... and I haven't got round to ones like Pond-life or dross. But they certainly apply here.
Listen, anyone who leaps to the defence of this ''gentleman'' and defends his rights, needs to remember that he doesn't give a toss about YOUR rights.
He is entirely anti-social. Thats not just something that happens in the newspaper, its something that makes people's lives a misery.
There is nothing wrong with 'name and shame', I would put posters up all round town...(a bit like PubSafe which seems to be ineffective these days) to warn people to give ''Bugsy'' a wide berth...
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I was thinking......if the perpetrator happened to be a convicted sex offender, who was living in the Craig-y-Don, West Shore or Great Orme areas, would his photo have been a welcome addition to the forum?
After all, it's always nice to know WHO is living in your neighbourhood.
Last year the Home Office introduced the Violent Crime Action Plan:
http://www.insight-security.com/pdfs/Violent%20crime%20action%20plan%20summary.pdf (http://www.insight-security.com/pdfs/Violent%20crime%20action%20plan%20summary.pdf)
investing more than £20 million over the next three years on multi-agency
interventions and information sharing between police, councils, volunteer groups and
health workers to identify people likely to commit acts of serious violence
doing more to protect children from sex offenders – including a pilot in four police
force areas (Cleveland, Cambridgeshire, Hampshire and Warwickshire) to allow the
release of more information about offenders’ convictions to certain members of the
public
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There are thousands of paedophiles in this and every other country who have yet to be caught. They are working in School, homes and any other place where they can get into contact with children. One or two photographs posted around the area is not going to end the problem. Neither is plastering (forgive the pun) the picture if a renowned alcoholic going to stop him acting as he has for all those years that others have mentioned. If he has been at it all that time then everyone must know him and pictures are not required.
I personally have not seen him since I moved from the Gogarth Ward and the Gloddaeth Avenue area. But I know how to deal with him should our paths cross again in the future.
Rehabilitation is available it just takes him and the authorities to do something about it.
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Rehabilitation is available it just takes him and the authorities to do something about it.
Well yes, maybe, but the Deputy Chief Constable of North Wales Police was kicked in the leg by "Bugsy" hours after he was released from prison.
It meant "Bugsy", 39, had breached an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) against him a staggering (forgive the pun) 26 times.
The Authorities have been doing something about it.
Unfortunately "Bugsy" hasn't.
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Do you remember him, Trojan? He was always around town in the late 80s/early 90s?
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Well yes, maybe, but the Deputy Chief Constable of North Wales Police was kicked in the leg by "Bugsy" hours after he was released from prison.
I believe, that time, the Police were called after Bugsy was found staggering down Church Walks, shouting 'Welcome to f**king Wales' at the top of his voice. Maybe we can get him a job with the Tourist Board?
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Do you remember him, Trojan? He was always around town in the late 80s/early 90s?
It would have helped if I could have seen the photo! >:(
8)
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Well yes, maybe, but the Deputy Chief Constable of North Wales Police was kicked in the leg by "Bugsy" hours after he was released from prison.
I believe, that time, the Police were called after Bugsy was found staggering down Church Walks, shouting 'Welcome to f**king Wales' at the top of his voice. Maybe we can get him a job with the Tourist Board?
He could stand at the top of Penrhyn Hill...... Z**
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Well yes, maybe, but the Deputy Chief Constable of North Wales Police was kicked in the leg by "Bugsy" hours after he was released from prison.
I believe, that time, the Police were called after Bugsy was found staggering down Church Walks, shouting 'Welcome to f**king Wales' at the top of his voice. Maybe we can get him a job with the Tourist Board?
L0L L0L
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Its a shame that 'Bugsy' seems to have taken up residence on the bench outside St Seiriols Church, along with couple of other notorious drop outs.
The shame being, that along there you have quite a lot of pleasant and well-heeled visitors staying at the Grand Ash and the Dunoon hotels.
Also, a lot of retired people have to go past them to get to the retirement flats along Gloddaeth Ave.
You don't want those type of scum bags making it even more unpleasant for holiday makers.
Did I say Scum Bags? Yes.... just making sure I said SCUM BAGS.
Remember, before you leap to thier defence, they care not a jot about you.
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As we're getting the forum involved why not have a competition for users to design the best wooden placard that we can wrap around his neck.
I think a metal one would be more robust.
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I was thinking......if the perpetrator happened to be a convicted sex offender, who was living in the Craig-y-Don, West Shore or Great Orme areas, would his photo have been a welcome addition to the forum?
I don't think it would make any difference. Yorkie's comment is correct, and there's an important issue about crime and punishment in general. If someone has been punished by society, then we have to decide if we - as a society - believe in the possibility of rehabilitation, because if we don't, and if we structure our society with that perspective, then we might just as well impose a single - and capital - sentence for most crimes. Justice is not about seeking revenge, or shouldn't be; it ought to be about making someone realise that they've transgressed whilst affording them the opportunity to make amends and stay out of trouble.
And more kids are killed, injured and mentally scarred by careless motorists than they are by sex offenders.
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.(a bit like PubSafe which seems to be ineffective these days)
You have to sign a Data Protection agreement and collect photos from the police station.
You are not permitted, under any circumstances to show anyone the photos apart from staff and they have to be kept well away from the public, under the bar or in the office.
Your right Fester , in some cases Pubsafe is a complete farce, however in others it's entirely necessary. I can't elaborate futher as I have also had to sign the agreement. :roll:
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A slightly related question...if someone is banned from, say, Wetherspoons, then are they banned from other pubs in Llandudno?
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It depends if Wethers have barred the individual from just their outlet or whether they have put the persons name forward in a Pubsafe meeting. If it's the latter then a term is decided in that meeting and all pubs in Llandudno must comply. The council has made it a condition on your Premises License.
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After reading Ian's comment above I am reminded of the KKK although their quarry was somewhat different!
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A slightly related question...if someone is banned from, say, Wetherspoons, then are they banned from other pubs in Llandudno?
Ha ha Dave...''barred from say Wetherspoons'', (for splitting someones head open with a crutch for example??) ... would they be allowed to go in, oh I don't know,.lets say The London or Fat Cat or Fountains (for the sake of argument) and shout down the mobile phone for 20 minutes, whilst you and I were sitting in those pubs.
Just a hypothetical illustration I plucked out of the air... L0L L0L
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...........I would imagine that he will be staying at her Majesty's pleasure for some time.
Does that mean that you are predetermining the outcome of any future trial and presuming that a hefty sentence will be imposed? Or is it just a light-hearted bit of speculation on your part?
May I suggest that you be very careful with what you write on this (or any other) Forum!
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...........I would imagine that he will be staying at her Majesty's pleasure for some time.
Does that mean that you are predetermining the outcome of any future trial and presuming that a hefty sentence will be imposed? Or is it just a light-hearted bit of speculation on your part?
May I suggest that you be very careful with what you write on this (or any other) Forum!
Yorkie, times have changed in the Police Force over the last 50 years and the situation nowadays cannot be compared to the time that you were on the beat.
Mike's doing a great job under very difficult circumstances and long may it continue. The Police want our support as we do theirs so constant sniping doesn't do anyone any good.
Constructive critisism is different and we can all learn from that but if Mike published a picture on here then he would be damned if he did and also damned if he didn't. It's a situation he can't win.
Let's just give him the support he deserves.
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I have no objection to giving PC Smith or any other Police Officer my support. However, It is not up to those people to make such public comments, even if a person has confessed to a crime.
The outcome of any trial is determined by the Judge (and Jury) who in the final analysis will determine the sentence, long, short or otherwise. It is not correct for the prosecuting authority or any of its employees to offer public speculation as to the outcome. A clever defense lawyer will make excellent use of such public comments as has been seen in past trials.
It may be some time since I served but I do keep abreast of matters legal for my voluntary work in Advocacy.
I am trying to offer advice not criticism.
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As you know Yorkie, we are not responsible for handing out sentences at court.
As stated, he has admitted numerous offences and it is my belief that a custodial sentence will be imposed in these circumstances.
As i said, i will update when the court result is known.
It is extremely hard to gain the support of local residents as peole's views of the Police have (understandably justified in some cases) deteriorated over the years and i thought this forum was going someway to improving my relationship with the people who i dont manage to meet when walking my beat.
for the record, this is the only forum i use for information purposes, i dont post anywhere else.
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I would imagine that he will be staying at her Majesty's pleasure for some time.
It's alright for some....... >:(
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I take it that those of us who have made comments are not regarded as being negative!
I think all comments are all made in good faith and reflect the honest feelings and judgement of the writers. I think we are all concerned about crime and the presence of the Police in the Community. However, as you have chosen to use this Forum as a vehicle to obtain support, I think you must also respect the opinions we express.
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The point is that this thread is not a normal discussion thread, Yorkie. The way it is intended to work is that we post a policing issue pertaining to the Craig y Don, West Shore and Great Orme area and PC Mike then takes a look and reports back to us on it. That's all this thread is for - any other policing discussions/opinions should be made in the Police Effectiveness thread.
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Thanks - but if PC Smith makes a comment on this thread as per Bugsy, it seems rather stupid me putting a reply on the Police effectiveness thread.
All my comments have been in DIRECT reply to PC Smiths and can only therefore be placed on this thread.
If PC Smith made FACTUAL statements rather than COMMENTS there would possibly be no requirement for replies to be made. Whilst he is expressing opinions or theories he must expect comment in return.
Furthermore, I am not the only one making comment, so why should I be singled out?
Maybe PC Smiths remarks should be run past you or Ian prior to publication, or does that then smell of censorship.
I think it is also worth remembering that although he has some responsibility for Gogarth and Craig-y-Don he is employed to serve the whole community!
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No-one's being singled out, it's just that you were the last person to comment on the matter so I addressed my reply to you. What I'm saying applies equally to everyone.
As I said, the object of the Policing issues thread is not for people to make comments, but for people to report matters of concern and for Mike to then investigate and then report back. It's really not for any other sort of discussions, perhaps that wasn't made totally clear previously.
I'd agree with you that Mike should perhaps be careful to restrict himself to factual comments when posting in his official capacity.
I have moved most of the off topic comments over to this thread and if if we can keep the other thread strictly for reporting policing matters in the Craig y Don, West Shore and Great Orme area, then I would be very grateful to everyone. :)
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I regard that move as censorship! However, it's your Forum and you pay for it so you may do as you please.
I will refrain from posting in reply to PC Smith's postings and will make any criticism or comments directly to him by way of PM 's.
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I regard that move as censorship!
No posts have been deleted, so that's not the case... ;)
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I regard that move as censorship!
No posts have been deleted, so that's not the case... ;)
<:<:<:<
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I regard that move as censorship!
No posts have been deleted, so that's not the case... ;)
Y^^Y
It makes sense, it's good having a local bobby on board, we don't want to scare him away (http://images.zaazu.com/img/london-police-police-london-smiley-emoticon-000570-medium.gif)
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The problem is that when you need one you can't find one. Nowadays they have become very good at dishing out Incident Numbers. $eu
Police effectiveness could well be directly proportional to the number of "active" officers one sees on our streets. By all reports from previous comments on this and other Forums there are very few. Maybe it would be a good idea for the Members of this Forum to carry out a survey and report the date, time and place that they see a uniformed officer on foot in our ThreeTowns.
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This has made my posting above a load of rubbish as it refers to another thread. As I cannot now edit it, either please do so or delete it. As usual I stand corrected.
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I've removed your post, Nemesis.
I'm in town every day and I see Police pretty much every day.
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This had nothing to do with the amount of police, but the fact that our drunk and abusive Bugsy had been collecting 'followers' complete with bottles etc and having daily gatherings outside the Seilo Chapel. Not good for the town's image
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Indeed.
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Hmmm...
From my perspective, I welcome Mike's involvement on the forum and I'm pretty certain the majority agree. But the Police are in a tricky position, and Mike's venture onto the forum was always going to be a potential issue.
Mike's putting in a fair bit of time on the forum, and the way in which he's dealt with queries is to be applauded, quite frankly. He doesn't have to do it - it's not a specific part of his remit - and I'm guessing most of us want him to carry on contributing.
With regard to the comment that sparked the current debate, my reading is that Mike was simply making an educated guess - the sort of thing any Police officer might say to reassure someone that justice was being done. The problem with making it in a post is that a forum is essentially a written and permanent document, so words have to be chosen with extreme care since they're available for anyone in the world to read and, perhaps more to the point, remain available for the foreseeable future. It's the main reason why publication on here of any personal details without the owner's consent is unacceptable.
Please don't take this personally, Mike; you're a very valued contributor and I firmly believe we're the better for having you on board.
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With regard to the comment that sparked the current debate, my reading is that Mike was simply making an educated guess - the sort of thing any Police officer might say to reassure someone that justice was being done. The problem with making it in a post is that a forum is essentially a written and permanent document, so words have to be chosen with extreme care since they're available for anyone in the world to read and, perhaps more to the point, remain available for the foreseeable future.
Which is just the point I was trying to make, but which is now lost as it has been totally separated from the initiating posting!
.......remain available for the foreseeable future
Unless, of course, it has been deleted!!
In future I will have to use Copy & Paste when refering to any PC Smith posting so that any comment by me will have the reference included.
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I'm in town every day and I see Police pretty much every day.
They are very rarely seen in Penrhryn Bay unless they are hiding in their multi-coloured jam-jars in the Surgery Car Park waiting to leap out on any unsuspecting pensioner! Oh yes! I can give date, name and time if you wish! D)
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Oooooh. I saw a cop in Mostyn Street on Saturday. He had SC on his epaulettes does that mean Special? He was all of 4'12" and his helmet almiost as big.
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A couple of points. The forum is indeed for light-hearted banter but it's also here to be a potential force for change for the better in the local communities it serves. Topic side-tracking is a frequent issue that crops up, and Dave and I keep an eye on all the topics to see if the asides are taking over the topic or becoming the topic. If it's the latter, I split the topic and shunt the asides into 'Games and Jokes", which seems to work reasonably well.
Some topics, however, are important enough to warrant serious and aside-free debates, and in the case of the Policing Matters topic, where we've been lucky enough to have a serving Police Officer become involved, then I think we have to respect the fact that the topic in question needs to become focussed and aside-free.
THE ABOVE was a comment by Ian on 24th October. I refer to PC Mike Smith's policing thread.
A serious thread, from a well meaning and EFFECTIVE police officer seems to have been demolished.
I'm disappointed that a guy, in his own style, trying to do some good, has been 'picked off' until he has had to admit defeat.
I don't see why a more impersonal approach, in a more informal style had to be criticised until it collapsed.
We complain when the Police are seen to be 'by the book' or jobsworths... but as soon as one officer attempts a different approach, it gets criticised to destruction by the very people it was designed to help.
Never mind, as Homer Simpson says..... ''If something is difficult, never try''.
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As I seem to have been the main person offering comments in response to PC Smith's entries on the Forum I suppose I should feel some responsibility for his decision.
I do not!
I, like everyone else on this Forum, have read his posts and taken in some of the serious aspects that he has chosen to mention. However, in certain instances I disagreed with his manner and approach to the problem, incident or the conclusion he has reached. Accordingly, I chose to put my view of the situation, as indeed did others. If PC Smith, you, or indeed any other Member of the Forum, felt that what he, or I said was wrong and worthy of further debate, then you all had the opportunity to do so. I have not seen many comments until today!
I believed in everything I said. What I said was done without malice and in an effort to add balance to the debate. If you are content to listen to only one opinion and accept every comment from the Police Officer as a fair reflection of every situation he discusses, then so be it. I probably have a different outlook to his comments and despite his position and his conclusions, I am still entitled to my own judgement and thereby my opinion, and right to comment.
PC Smith also had the option to contact me via a PM, he chose not to do so. He has now left the Forum which was his choice. I certainly have no objection to his use of the Forum to enhance relationships twixt the Force and the Public or to assist in the detection of crime. All I would suggest is that he restricts certain comments to the facts as they exist, respect the privacy of his "clients" and refrains from passing judgements in advance. The requirements of PACE should always be considered.
If the Officer is unable to take or accept comments from the public, be it me or someone else, then he has made the right choice.
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Yorkie, You have no reason at all to feel responsible for Mike ''leaving'' the Forum....
Your comments (and those of others) might well have led him to make the decision to discontinue his thread... but there can be no issue with taking the stance you did, challenging whatever you wish or exercise your right to you opinion.
Hell, no one makes more extreme comments on this forum than me. Sometimes toungue in cheek, and sometimes in deadly earnest.
My only regret is that Mike didn't simply ignore any comments he didn't agree with (which is his right to do) rise above them, and press on regardless.
He dipped his toe in the water...it was initially warm and inviting.... then it turned distinctly cold....Brrr, so he stepped away... as I would have done.
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I was delighted to see in today's news that hundreds of thousands of tax payers money will be saved as funding for all the "odd" Police minority groups is being withdrawn.
I never could understand why those who are supposed to be above predjudice have to have the Gay Police Group, the Black Group, the Christian Group, the Womens Group, the Muslim Group or any other Group. Interesting point is that there has never been a White Police Group - I wonder why? Probably it would have been seen as non-PC, if you'll pardon the pun!
I often wondered if the Police Officers who were Members of these various groups could carry out their duties without discriminating in any way! To my mind it is a good thing that funding has been withdrawn, we shall now see if these Groups even continue in being! What was their purpose if it was nothing more than to show themselves as separate to their fellow Officers and the Public?
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/236145/Joy-for-beat-bobbies-as-minority-police-groups-lose-funding (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/236145/Joy-for-beat-bobbies-as-minority-police-groups-lose-funding)
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Interesting point is that there has never been a White Police Group - I wonder why?
Because white Police officers are already a dominant majority. The other groups to which you refer are not, and the thinking is that they require group representation partly to ensure a relative freedom from prejudice, bigotry and victimisation but mainly to ensure representation in a body which has seen its fair share of allegations with regard to racism, sexism and bigotry.
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Except, of course, in certain pockets of the Country such as Barking, Bradford and to a lesser degree in parts of our major conurbations (e.g. Birmingham) where the pendulum is fast swinging the opposite way! Such may be the reason for the funding to be withdrawn. Why indeed, should the taxpayer pay for such groups which after all are akin to Trades Union?
And is, or was, there ever any bigotry, victimisation or prejudice against ethnic minority Policemen from fellow officers, white or coloured, anymore than there was any prejudice, bigotry or discrimination etc. against white officers? I don't think so.
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And is, or was, there ever any bigotry, victimisation or prejudice against ethnic minority Policemen from fellow officers, white or coloured, anymore than there was any prejudice, bigotry or discrimination etc. against white officers? I don't think so.
Well, that's a big question, and one which is probably impossible to answer. But the groups to which you refer were established precisely because of their minority status and to avoid the perceptions of those who enforce the law as unrepresentative of those whom they serve.
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Well, I'm glad we got that sorted out!! ZXZ The main point is that the Taxpayer will no longer be footing The Bill - Oh gosh another pun! ;D
Here's one for the guessing game: Which one is Yorkie?
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Middle row, fifth from the left. ?{}?
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And is, or was, there ever any bigotry, victimisation or prejudice against ethnic minority Policemen from fellow officers, white or coloured, anymore than there was any prejudice, bigotry or discrimination etc. against white officers? I don't think so.
$uk
Racism In U K Police Force Pt1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_GWy82olhw#)
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$uk
Racist Police in the UK part 2 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEF0SswjepM#ws)
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Top row, third left, he looks a suitably grumpy b****r L0L
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I'll give you a clue . I am one of those with a pointy hat on! _))* Covering my pointy head! L0L
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No idea which is you, Yorkie. But havent times changed in photography. Front row, the first four from the left all have their right legs over their left. The first four from the right all have their left legs over their right (or is it the other way around LOL). No impromptue snaps in those days.
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I will always remember the Sergeant (Blackwood) third from left who was our un-armed combat instructor. When he was demonstrating a restraining hold he really put it on and made sure you knew exactly what you would be doing to others. 'elf 'n safety would probably prevent him from doing it nowadays! They were great days despite all the studying we had to do. :laugh:
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In the Weekly News today:
"A man who'd breached ASBOs 26 times has received his fourth order after shouting and swearing at a mother and her four year old daughter in a Llandudno Street. Magistrates in the town heard the woman was frightened by drunken Richard Wyn Davies, 39, of Arvon Ave, Llandudno"
:-X
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Harumph--- no comment. :rage:
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I notice there was no picture! :-X
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Obviously didn't want to give him too much publicity or maybe just a snub to the Constabulary. ¢¢##
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Obviously those ASBO's didn't work then.
Perhaps the black-eye I saw him sporting a week or two ago, might have quitened him down a tad?
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He fell up the Chargeroom steps, Your Worship! >>>
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Obviously those ASBO's didn't work then.
Perhaps the black-eye I saw him sporting a week or two ago, might have quitened him down a tad?
Welcome to f***** Wales! $walesflag$
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Obviously those ASBO's didn't work then.
Perhaps the black-eye I saw him sporting a week or two ago, might have quitened him down a tad?
Welcome to f***** Wales! $walesflag$
A great case of what goes around, comes around? ha ha...
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Karma you mean?
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Have the police got a new toy? The helicopter seems to be out an awful lot during Benidorm and other programmes. We could see it over west shore bridge last week with its searchlight on. Still I suppose it means they don't actually have to patrol on foot.
I'm in London, just seen two police on horrses then two on racing bikes, lycra, funny hats and reflective sun glasses - really cool, not; then two ambling along. Gosh it's quite a shock to see so many when you're used to seeing none.
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I keep an eye out now and I see one every time when I'm walking up Mostyn Street.
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Get them out of their cars and onto bikes such as this, or better still the two wheeled pedal variety. Better in towns and would help to get them fit!
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tsk, can't ride these on the prom Yorkie
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Police Effectiveness >?>??
Looks like the local constabulary are having a go at a local blogger named "Oscar".
"Oscar" said......
I wonder if Inspector Verberg had a word with one of his team yesterday?
For a post written in an official capacity of a member of his team has been completely rewritten since yesterday, including comments about working form home etc.
Now I know the District Inspector is above the sort of behaviour currently evident of his subordinate double act but is he aware of what his going on behind his back in relation to this blog in particular?
Perhaps it's time his very own Laurel and Hardy were split up for the good of keeping the force's integrity in tact.
I am not exaggerating when I say that there is an unhealthy interest being shown towards this blog.
If they have evidence of any criminal behaviour shown by the blog they can e mail me , as Pc Smith has in the past using his police e mail address, although that was for personal reasons, he " used his police e mail for convenience" then reverting to his personal e mail address when I gently objected to him using his work e mail for personal reasons, and Inspector Verberg and I have had an amiable exchange of e mails.
I will gladly supply my solicitors contact details should the police require them at any time should they think a criminal act has been committed
Watch this space.
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Self styled leader of the Mochdre massive Kane Williams has been sent to jail for 15 months for drug dealing.
This Neanderthal moron should be locked up for life he is a danger to the community he has participated in numerous attacks on people with a samurai sword and got away with it scot free because witnesses are too intimidated to come forward.
This individual is a blot on our community and all that is bad in our area
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I've read about this lad for the last few years, he seems completely off the rails. He's only young isn't he. He was put on remand a couple of months ago with his friend Tubz for attacking and urinating on a guy in Colwyn Bay never heard anything else. 15 months doesn't seem enough to be honest given his other numerous offenses. Thing is prison in most cases doesn't work, he'll be out in 10 months, with exactly the same attitude.
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The other case is still pending and soon to be heard in crown court hopefully he will receive another lengthy sentence.
In my humble opinion he should be committed to broadmore
3 more of his associates have only last week been remanded for drug dealing on a large scale with connections to the Liverpool drug cartel
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From what I was told yesterday a notorious Mochdre dealer has just been caught with a substantial amount of amphetamine. So the Police are closing in fast. Or some scared little scroat has pointed them in the right direction, which is most often the case.
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Or some scared little scroat has pointed them in the right direction, which is most often the case.
Strange way to describe someone who has had the courage to give information !
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I don't say scroat because they informed the police, it's because they've not divulged the information for the good of society it's just to cover they're own ass. It has nothing to do with courage.
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North Wales Police officers equipped with body cameras
SEVENTY-five police officers in North Wales have been equipped with body cameras thanks to a Home Office grant.
The £44,538 grant came as part of a £50m Innovation Fund announced in July to award forces in England and Wales who come up with novel ways of tackling crime.
It follows a small-scale trial within the North Wales Force over six months in which the effectiveness of the Body Worn Videos (BWV) was assessed.
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/138465/north-wales-police-officers-equipped-with-body-cameras.aspx (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/138465/north-wales-police-officers-equipped-with-body-cameras.aspx)
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Caught on Camera: Can you help identify these people?
These are the faces of people police want to trace in connection with a string of crimes.
North Wales Police have released CCTV stills in the hope of jogging the memories of people who may have witnessed the offences.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/caught-camera-can-you-help-7905291 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/caught-camera-can-you-help-7905291)
Admin could this thread be added to other police threads? Three towns policing issues.
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I'm not sure if they will all be members of the forum Steve! But appreciate your effort _))*
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I'm not sure if they will all be members of the forum Steve! But appreciate your effort _))*
Nice one, cheeky b..... _))*
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Police moral has been lifted by the appearance of a new masked crusader in north wales.....
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:o
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oooh I need one of them! they are cool $good$
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celtic supporter
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Hello all,
My name is Fred Nathan, I'm a journalist working on the terrible story that has emerged regarding the Policemen who deliberately ran over a dog on the A55 in Llanfairfechan in the early hours of yesterday.
Details of the story are here: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-run-over-dog-a55on-10939325 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-run-over-dog-a55on-10939325)
I'm trying to track down the owner of the dog, presumably who would be from your local area, in order to talk to him/her about this atrocity.
If anyone know who the dog belonged to, or could ask around I would be grateful. If anyone has any info, please contact me ASAP on 07342 067 989.
Thanks a lot,
Fred Nathan
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What do we all think of this story? Social media is pouring with outrage.
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Absolutely disgusting but sadly typical these days.
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Just been listening to a discussion on Jeremy Vine. Interesting view points but I come out on the side of the police in this matter. People, dog lovers by and large, are making emotive judgements without knowing the facts and the basis for the decision making.
I wonder what the story would have read if it had been family of 4 wiped out on their way to their Irish holiday ferry when they swerved to avoid a dog and collided with a lorry.
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Nobody seems to be questioning how the owners allowed their dog to be on the A55 at that hour in the first place. And for all the armchair experts stating the road would be quiet at that time of the night, I can assure you it is quite the opposite. I've driven home from work at that hour many times and it can be bedlam with the ferry traffic thundering through so I don't think closing the road would have been a viable option.
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I am an avid dog lover and have a dog of my own but I don't know what else the Police could have done in the circumstances. What alternative would the Police have?
It's devastating when you lose a pet but what was it doing on the A55 in the first place?
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http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news-and-appeals/a55-incident-dog-owner-traced.aspx?lang=en-gb (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news-and-appeals/a55-incident-dog-owner-traced.aspx?lang=en-gb)
There you go, some one with a bit of sense. The Sun would probably have run a stupid story given the chance.
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Was a hunting dog from away which did not keep with the pack it appears. Not the easiest of dogs to bring to heal at a guess. Sad way to go for the dog to die but how would the critics have brought the matter to an end?
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Get back in your box Fred. Go and make up some more lies. DON'T BUY THE S**
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Get back in your box Fred. Go and make up some more lies. DON'T BUY THE S**
Well said Al. I didn't realise he was from that rag!
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Uninsured vehicle seizure by Police up 50% in three years but I've noticed that the North Wales Police are bottom of the list. I'm not surprised really because they seem to be deploying resources elsewhere. This week I've seen the Arrive Alive van in its usual position by the Llandrillo Technical College whereas they could be chasing cars with no tax or no MOT.
For some inexplicable reason they don't seem to be chasing the motorists who intentionally break the law by having no MOT, no Road Tax or displaying illegal number plates
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41583266 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41583266)
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I think you will find that all the Arrive Alive vans have all the latest technology including ANPR ,I suppose it will find its way to the department responsible and action will be taken against the offenders at least I hope so .
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I wish that I had your optimism Robbie but I'm more cynical about it.
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I can understand you being cynical about the whole issue with the Arrive Alive vans Hugo ,I thought it was a road safety measure but it appears to be a money making exercise ,when did you see a van parked in an accident black spot area ,its actions like this that alienate the public against the Police , do you know if we have lost our force helicopter ?
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Don't get me wrong Robbie as I've nothing but respect and admiration for our Police Officers. I believe that it is the restrictions placed on the officers due to their budget that stops them from doing their duties properly.
I have been unfortunate to have been a victim of criminal acts that could have been resolved if only the Police had taken the matter to a conclusion. I believe that they just went through the motions but budget restrictions meant that justice would have to come at a price and they were not prepared to do that.
My own opinion on these Arrive Alive vans is that they should be placed in an accident black spot like the A55 or A470 beyond Glan Conwy but I don't think that it's a money making machine to have them by the Llandrillo Tech as they would soon go bankrupt if it was, as I think that most drivers expect to see the vans there.
Sorry but I have no info on the Police helicopters although I do still see them overhead some times
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I think we are both singing from the same hymn sheet Hugo , we might differ on the reasons for lack of effectiveness from the police on various issues ,I have no doubt that the government cut backs have played a part , but I think the main reason is the amount of red tape and political correctness ,together with the sickness culture in the forces . Another reason which has been discussed on the forum recently does the punishment fit the crime , I could go on and mention other reasons but hopefully things can only get better .
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Another very big issue ? That takes up a lot of their time are the mental health problems, they are having to deal with. I recently heard a young copper state * I did not join up for this * and I understood where is was coming from,
he wants to catch bad guys,
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Robbie, I'm not even sure if the Arrive Alive van by the Tech has got ANPR cameras on board. If they have they would have that fact printed on the van somewhere.
However even if they had ANPR cameras on the van it would be a pointless exercise anyway as once a vehicle has been spotted without road tax or Mot the vehicle should be stopped and taken off the road.
Those vans would need a backup Police car to stop the offending vehicle and they do not have that backup, certainly not on a regular basis.
I can't understand why there are so many vehicles on the road that are untaxed or have no MOT. It's all on computers and the DVLA and the Police have access to those records, It's not exactly rocket science.
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It has been exactly one week since that horrific incident in Llewelyn Avenue Llandudno when a young man in a dark grey car deliberately run over a flock of Seagulls and killed 4 and one other had a broken wing
Most local people will have heard about it but since then I have not heard one other word about the incident. I've thought long and hard about it but I'm not posting the report of the incident as personally I found it too graphic and upsetting.
What concerns me is the fact that this vile act will go unpunished if there is no effort make to bring this culprit to justice
I have read two reports, one by the Police following the incident and the second by RSPCA Inspectors who follow up crimes of cruelty. In my humble opinion they seem to be contradictory and the two groups should pool there resources because after all the Police have the CCTV cameras and only a window of about 15 minutes to look at and obtain the car detais etc
North Wales Police, who say the RSPCA is looking into the matter, were called to the scene and closed the road while the birds were taken away.
A statement published on the force's official Facebook page, said: "We are aware of the horrific incident in Llewelyn Road, Llandudno in which a number of seagulls were killed after reportedly being hit by a vehicle.
"The RSPCA, which has investigative and prosecution powers, has been informed and is looking into the matter."
When RSPCA inspectors have reason to believe that an offence has been committed, they prepare a case file containing evidence such as witness statements, photographs, and veterinary or other expert advice.
We, unlike the police, have no special powers to gather evidence.
But we use the law to ensure any evidence gathered can be used in court.
Once the investigation is complete, the file is submitted to our prosecutions team, who consider whether the case ought to be prosecuted.
I hope that I am wrong but are the Police in this case passing the buck? Let's hope that this culprit is caught quickly
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I hope they catch the driver, shocking thing to do! >:(
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Let's hope that the lack of news isn't just a lack of apathy on behalf of the Police and that they are actually doing something to catch this vile person.
They know the time and the place where it happened so looking at the CCTV couldn't be easier
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The Hawkeye Camera is positioned outside The Gresham Bar, and faces up Llewelyn Ave.
There’s not a chance they don’t have the car registration on the CCTV.
It all depends whether there is a will to do it.
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Thanks very much for that information Fester that's very promising. Those poor birds can't speak up for themselves so I'll certainly be following it up with the authorities as I'm sure many others will be doing the same
If someone can be so vile as that what else could he be guilty of?
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Just as an add on to my last post, the RSPCA has said that if anyone has any information about this incident they should contact them on Tel 0300 1234 999
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Nothing to do with the Police this time but a similar incident with a flock of Seagulls but with a better outcome.
I was driving down Abergele Road in Colwyn Bay this afternoon and was approaching the traffic lights near Stermats.
The lights were on green as I approached them but there was a flock of Seagulls feeding on something in the middle of the road so I slowed down and most of them scattered but one or two took their time walking to the kerb so I had to stop.
Behind me was a moron on a motorbike who tooted for me keep on going. but apart from the fact that I won't be bullied I had no intention of moving on until it was safe to do so.
The moron must have seen all the Seagulls beforehand and I bet he would have continued without any thought to the consequences of his action because when I turned to go into the Vet's he was tooting again at me, but didn't stop and carried on up the road
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Mattie Ginsberg has given everyone advanced notice of a second protest rally to be staged on the 7th November 2020 so surely if it goes ahead then the Police should not be bystanders a second time and should do their duty and act to enforce the law as it stands now.
If it was a rave party and involved hundreds of youngsters then the Police would step in and fine the organisers £10K and the majority of people would support that fact so I don't see what the difference is
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Tellytubby was telling me about his friend who was riding his bicycle in Halkyn recently when he noticed that the Police were stopping cars. The friend thought that they may have been stopping drivers who were trying to sneak into Wales from over the Border.
That may have been the case but in the North Wales Pioneer today I was reading an article about the blitz by the Police on uninsured drivers across North Wales.
Whatever the reason for stopping the motorists it is refreshing to hear that something positive is being done to stop these lawbreakers, because after all it is not fair to the majority of the honest drivers $good$