Unemployment and Benefits

[Hugo]

Hugo said: 
David Cameron is already suggesting using the young unemployed to do such work but I'm sorry that will never materialise as Conservatives will be kicked out of office hopefully next year.   

And if he is kicked out we will get yet another Government, with promises and polices galore, promises that will not be met and policues that will do nothing to get us out of the s****y state we are in.
 WWW   WWW   WWW

That's Politics for you Yorkie and it's not going to change.  They are all the same, they criticise one another but do not say anything constructive about what they are going to do.  Cameron has done so many U turns that it's a wonder he's not dizzy.   

[Hugo]

Steve, there are plenty of worth while causes that the fit and healthy unemployed could do.    The Churches do not have the money to maintain the graveyards so any chanting by the do gooders that they are taking jobs away from others is unconstructive rubbish. 
The Baptist Church Cemetery in Glanwydden is another cemetery that has gone wild and it was last tidied up over 30 years ago by a team of volunteers.  I was in St Agnes Cemetery in Conwy today and that is in a bad condition too.
It must be a rewarding feeling and a sense of purpose when eyesores like we have mentioned are improved and I fail to see how anyone can disagree.

[SteveH]

Hi Hugo, Agreed, there must be list a mile long of organisations or groups looking for help, maybe they should put up a notice in their local job centre .

[Fester]

Born to Run,  I think that people on benefits, (any kind of benefits), should be rounded up and organised into 'Forced Labour' gangs.  It would be sensible, from a security aspect' if they were all chained together.

Any food given should be purely on a 'performance first' basis, as a reward, in the interests of maximizing productivity.
We could also address the local dog problem, by utilising any Dobermans or Alsatians as an additional layer of security, to keep any dissenters in line.

I accept of course that there are many benefit claimants who are too infirm to participate in a strenuous way.
They could be employed as 'spotters', thereby reporting any slackers to the powers that be.

You know it makes sense.

[Ian]

That's Politics for you Yorkie and it's not going to change.  They are all the same, they criticise one another but do not say anything constructive about what they are going to do.  Cameron has done so many U turns that it's a wonder he's not dizzy.   

I wonder if that's not simply the nature of modern politics? Cameron (and I'm in no way defending him) couldn't implement many of the Tory ideas, partly because his majority meant he was in a political coalition, partly because of the state of the national finances, owing to the bankers (I think that's spelt correctly - but perhaps not). With the worrying news that UKIP has now won its first Parliamentary seat, and slashed the majority of a previously secure Labour seat, it seems that the British need for novelty as opposed to stability is gaining ground.

If any one party achieves a huge majority then we have to prepare for extremist political moves, and that's good for no one.

[Ian]

Fester's satirical response to B2R masks the fact that there is a growing divide in the UK at the moment between those dependent on the state and those either able to work in good jobs or whose financial situation is secure, and who don't have to work at all, in the accepted sense of the word. If that divide increases, then the voters will move to the edges, and seek to elect candidates whose rhetoric is more extreme. We think we've learned a lot since Hitler and that such a thing could never happen again, but I'm far less sure. If sufficient number of people feel disenfranchised, if they see no worthwhile future for themselves and if the DFM and its ilk keep fuelling immigration hysteria, along with all its other lies, innuendo and blatant dishonesty, then the country as a whole could move sharply to the right and left, and that could mean changes which no one in their right mind would want to see.

[SteveH]

Hi Ian,   As I read your first post, I am afraid the first thing I thought of was, if were not careful we will end up with another "Hitler situation" .....and then I got to your second post...to late.

The "growing divide" there is nothing there to disagree with, however it does bring up how we got to this state, my first thoughts are, we have let down the younger generations with a poorer education, lack of training,and less job prospects, and a welfare state that encourages laziness and disrespect and "no worthwhile future" .
The number of youngsters today who do not have the basic tools or willpower  to find the elusive jobs is a disgrace, and I do not see any change for the better, so which ever party is in power they better get a move on.

This discussion started over a group of older people who are trying maintain a graveyard stating “We don’t have to do it, we just do it, and we do it out of respect.” I think that says a lot, get people moving, doing something worthwhile, and not being paid to sit on their backsides.

[born2run]

Was Fester's response satirical? I've been reading the DFM too much, sounded perfectly reasonable to what I read in the comments section!

Ian is completely right though of course, what we would consider normal, educated, well rounded members of society are being driven into a mass hysteria by the right wing press. A couple of years ago the 'bigots and racists' (my words) were laughable tattooed bulldog toting skin heads. Now I'm seeing pensioners and men in suits with EXACTLY the same views.

It's worrying

[born2run]

Hi Ian,   As I read your first post, I am afraid the first thing I thought of was, if were not careful we will end up with another "Hitler situation" .....and then I got to your second post...to late.

The "growing divide" there is nothing there to disagree with, however it does bring up how we got to this state, my first thoughts are, we have let down the younger generations with a poorer education, lack of training,and less job prospects, and a welfare state that encourages laziness and disrespect and "no worthwhile future" .
The number of youngsters today who do not have the basic tools or willpower  to find the elusive jobs is a disgrace, and I do not see any change for the better, so which ever party is in power they better get a move on.

This discussion started over a group of older people who are trying maintain a graveyard stating “We don’t have to do it, we just do it, and we do it out of respect.” I think that says a lot, get people moving, doing something worthwhile, and not being paid to sit on their backsides.

Steve, your points are admirable but the key word as you've said is 'volunteer' we can't force people to be how we want them to be, or how we think they should be. If they want to volunteer that is brilliant, however the young feckless and disenfranchised would be quite unlikely to volunteer in a community they feel they don't belong to and to a country and government that does nothing for them.

[DaveR]

The "growing divide" there is nothing there to disagree with, however it does bring up how we got to this state, my first thoughts are, we have let down the younger generations with a poorer education, lack of training,and less job prospects, and a welfare state that encourages laziness and disrespect and "no worthwhile future" .
The number of youngsters today who do not have the basic tools or willpower  to find the elusive jobs is a disgrace, and I do not see any change for the better, so which ever party is in power they better get a move on.

I agree.

[SteveH]

Hi B2R...    "Volunteering"  maybe it is time to make volunteering compulsory .

[DaveR]

...to a country and government that does nothing for them.

...apart from pay their Benefits? They appear to be quite happy to let the 'community they don't belong to' pay all their bills?

[Ian]

I think that's too simplistic, Dave.  There are feckless layabouts - sure, but I'm not confident they're an especially large group in overall terms. TBH, what I'm thinking about is the group of hard working young folk, who are paid a pittance for many hours of hard work.  Neither of our boys have ever claimed any sort of benefits, yet even our youngest - who's a project engineering officer for National Grid - can barely afford a mortgage and has to rent in a house share.

Greed is at the root of a lot of issues in our society, and I suspect what we're witnessing is a cultural failure - not simply a political one.

[born2run]

Hi B2R...    "Volunteering"  maybe it is time to make volunteering compulsory .

They did that... It was called slavery 

[Fester]

Hi B2R...    "Volunteering"  maybe it is time to make volunteering compulsory .

They did that... It was called slavery 

I see that you are all coming round to my original thought.
Scarce Resources - Volunteering - Compulsory Volunteering - Exploitation - Slavery.
It's a path that is a direct one, also the edges between the different stages are quite 'blurred'  (Where would Zero Hours Contracts or Working at Poundland for free, in order to keep benefits slot in?)

More fundamentally, I look at the divide and degradation of society and I also believe it is a inherent lack of RESPECT that has accelerated it.   I firmly believe that the turning point was when corporal punishment was abolished in schools... and the respect/fear equation was thrown into chaos.

Now there is a contentious topic to discuss!