Unemployment and Benefits

[Gwynant]

" I also believe it is a inherent lack of RESPECT that has accelerated it.   I firmly believe that the turning point was when corporal punishment was abolished in schools."

      As someone who was born right at the end of the 2nd World War and also was brought up with my brother in a single parent family with plenty of discipline, I think that one of the major contributory factors to the current  "inherent lack of respect" was the abolition of National Service in 1960.
      I started work in the 60's and worked in nine different jobs till I retired in 2009 on my 65th birthday. I missed "the call-up" by a couple of years and at the risk of sounding like a retired Major-General, ("If I had you in my regiment, you'd be a different man, my boy!"), a sense of respect for your elders and and a sense of collective responsibility never did anyone any harm and that sense was instilled during National Service, however basic.
      Another factor is unemployment, in the 60's you could leave a job on a Friday and always find new employment on the following Monday, and any non-medical drugs that were readily available at the time were for recreational use only and not providing a permanent career as a dealer/pusher or an excuse for being unable to work. The "Nanny State" has a lot to answer for, but I do recognise and understand the sense of hopelessness that kids today have with no hope of permanent employment unless you have "qualifications", and zero-hour contracts etc. do not help either.
      I realise that this view doesn't provide any solution to the problem but I feel that "reality shows" such as "Benefits Street", Jeremy Kyle etc. only exacerbate the problem and fuel it further, and do more harm than good in bringing it to the public's notice.

[Merddin Emrys]

I have said for years that the wrong people are breeding, not to improve the race but to get benefits!
I expect that b2r may disagree....

[Ian]

I have said for years that the wrong people are breeding, not to improve the race but to get benefits!

There is some evidence to support that view, albeit largely anecdotal.

[snowcap]

I have been reading all the comments about how stupid the young of today are. My elders used to say exactly the same thing in my younger days."They should have kept the national service going that would have sorted them out" That was the answer, I worked along side quite a few men who did their national service and there were quite a few stupid men amongst them , so that was not the answer. Stupidity as been about for ever and a day and will continue for ever and a day. I may be stupid but there for the grace of god go I. Who ever solves the issue will make a fortune. Lets face it it,s not only the younger generation     

[Ian]

I'm never quite sure how serious F is being when he says things such as

More fundamentally, I look at the divide and degradation of society and I also believe it is a inherent lack of RESPECT that has accelerated it.   I firmly believe that the turning point was when corporal punishment was abolished in schools... and the respect/fear equation was thrown into chaos.

if only because, as several have noted, this sentiment has been expressed since Socrates was around, so the only conclusion it's possible to draw with any certainty is that as we age we become less tolerant of the very things we all used to do as youngsters.

[Hugo]

I'm never quite sure how serious F is being when he says things such as

More fundamentally, I look at the divide and degradation of society and I also believe it is a inherent lack of RESPECT that has accelerated it.   I firmly believe that the turning point was when corporal punishment was abolished in schools... and the respect/fear equation was thrown into chaos.

if only because, as several have noted, this sentiment has been expressed since Socrates was around, so the only conclusion it's possible to draw with any certainty is that as we age we become less tolerant of the very things we all used to do as youngsters.

I think that sentiment is true and hope that I am not turning into a grumpy old man.    The only difference between the generations nowadays is that we have an element of work shy people who don't want to work but at the same time expect to be paid for doing nothing and will be content to live off the backs of those people who are prepared to work for a living to support them self and their families

[Ian]

we have an element of work shy people who don't want to work but at the same time expect to be paid for doing nothing

I agree they do make up a proportion of those on benefits and some may lie and cheat the system, but I'm not sure how you deal with that. Several questions occur: how do we identify these people, what action do we take to deal with them once identified and what fraction of those dependent on the state do they really represent?

Liars and cheats exist everywhere. There are firms trading today that routinely lie and cheat and I will shortly name one such firm, trading in Cardiff, whose directors are liars and whose business practices are disgraceful. But it's easy to take a swipe at the more vulnerable, when major companies are doing similar things with their tax arrangements, yet never seem to feature in the DFM.

[SteveH]

The "growing divide" there is nothing there to disagree with, however it does bring up how we got to this state, my first thoughts are, we have let down the younger generations with a poorer education, lack of training,and less job prospects, and a welfare state that encourages laziness and disrespect and "no worthwhile future" .
The number of youngsters today who do not have the basic tools or willpower  to find the elusive jobs is a disgrace, and I do not see any change for the better, so which ever party is in power they better get a move on.

One lad on benefits for 6 years, who said he wanted to work, would do anything, was sent for a barmans job at the holiday camp, he did not have a clue, nobody had prepared him for the interview, a small thing but, he turned up, looking like a tramp, and could not answer the most basic interview questions, he did however get the job? but without any workplace experience lasted two weeks.!

My opinion of paying people to do nothing has not changed, the present system is a form of training to create the people we are complaining about today, the mold has to be broken sooner than later.
Watching the lad above, I felt angry, at 20 years of age he did not know how to go for an interview, let alone what was expected of him when he got there, who's fault is that?
I would like to commend Barclays for their recent TV campaign and website "Lifeskills" a small step in the right direction......https://www.barclayslifeskills.com/getstarted/?campaign=9955&chnnl=PSB&mpch=ads

PM announces new work training schemes for young people and a new era of apprenticeships
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-announces-new-work-training-schemes-for-young-people-and-a-new-era-of-apprenticeships
There are 850,000 young people unemployed, and the above scheme has a 100,000 places.?

Just because they are out of work, should not mean they sit on their bum's doing nothing,... and getting paid for it....give them the opportunity to grow.

[Fester]

I'm never quite sure how serious F is being when he says things such as

More fundamentally, I look at the divide and degradation of society and I also believe it is a inherent lack of RESPECT that has accelerated it.   I firmly believe that the turning point was when corporal punishment was abolished in schools... and the respect/fear equation was thrown into chaos.

if only because, as several have noted, this sentiment has been expressed since Socrates was around, so the only conclusion it's possible to draw with any certainty is that as we age we become less tolerant of the very things we all used to do as youngsters.

On this occasion Ian, I was being 100% serious.
However, on re-reading my post I would amend it slightly, to say it was not THE turning point, but certainly A turning point, or a major factor.
I say this because, I always knew as a kid that if I was cheeky or disruptive in class, (and I was renowned for it) there was a clip round the ear, or a sharp rap across the palm with a cane.   So I knew my boundaries, and I knew which teachers NOT to go too far with.
I also got summoned down from the bus shelter roof opposite my house by a policeman, who tugged me across the road by my ear.... delivered me to my Mum, who subsequently clouted the back of my leg for bringing this trouble home!

So, I knew to RESPECT boundaries with most teachers, all policemen, and most definitely my Mum, for FEAR of the consequences,
My Dad and Grandma never resorted to a smack, and because of this I was quite disrespectful and cheeky to both... a thing which I immensely regret (in terms of my Grandma) to my dying day.

[born2run]

I would like to commend Barclays for their recent TV campaign and website "Lifeskills" a small step in the right direction......https://www.barclayslifeskills.com/getstarted/?campaign=9955&chnnl=PSB&mpch=ads

Lovely chaps those guys at Barclays - hang on that's not the same monsters who conned everyone in the libor scandal and more recently this http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/barclays-hit-new-scandal-dark-3773059?

Because they seem so caring and nice with their little publicity stunt don't they   

[born2run]

A lot of you seem to have the same beliefs on the welfare state as a certain Ali G

Ali G meets Tony Benn - Top Quality

Ali G was a spoof - created to be ignorant and very stupid.
Disappointing that some of you are crediting some of things he says as serious arguments!

There is no room for caricatures nowadays - just like the Pub Landlord who was meant to ridicule bigoted views, people thought he was being serious and couldn't wait to agree with him!

If Alf Garnett was on TV nowadays you lot would be calling on him to stand for parliament.   

[Fester]

Strange then B2R, that opinion seems to be divided then.

You think one thing, and everyone else seems to think the opposite!

[SteveH]

I would like to commend Barclays for their recent TV campaign and website "Lifeskills" a small step in the right direction......https://www.barclayslifeskills.com/getstarted/?campaign=9955&chnnl=PSB&mpch=ads

Lovely chaps those guys at Barclays - hang on that's not the same monsters who conned everyone in the libor scandal.
Because they seem so caring and nice with their little publicity stunt don't they   

Hi B2R.....I have been out of touch for quite a few years, and took the Barclays gesture in good faith,.. still do on the basis of what we have been discussing, and the importance of the subject.
I seem to have been drawn towards the younger unemployed and their future prospects, but the original post was this example ........"why do a group of senior citizens have to struggle, to voluntary maintain the graveyard, when there is manpower available,"..... the long term unemployed who week in week out claim benefits and that they  cannot find work,...... is it time to set a limit,(6months?) and a system where they have to "volunteer" their time and skills, or lose their benefits.

Sorry about bold type  Ian? Your wish is my command :-))

[born2run]

No

Because that wouldn't work Steve

"Lose their benefits"

What are they going to do then? Starve? Let their Children starve? Are we going to allow that?
Are they? Or will they turn to crime and start burgling and mugging good working people like me and you Steve?

[Ian]

Ali G was a spoof - created to be ignorant and very stupid.

Not entirely sure about that. He was, however, clearly meant as a parody of those who were ignorant.