Cymraeg - Welsh language issues

[Fester]

Thanks for that Dwsi,  I hope someone reassures that poor traumatised shop assistant.

If I behaved like that I would be arrested for a 'Public Order' offence.
Maybe thats what he was hoping for?

[born2run]

Thanks for that Dwsi,  I hope someone reassures that poor traumatised shop assistant.

If I behaved like that I would be arrested for a 'Public Order' offence.
Maybe thats what he was hoping for?

You say 'behaved like that' If I take that literal, that means that you would be demanding that a person working in an English shop asked you to pay your bill in the English language? Due you think it would be unfair for you to expect that?

[Ian]

you would be demanding that a person working in an English shop asked you to pay your bill in the English language?

There may well be many shops in the UK manned by those from abroad where the knowledge of English is marginal at best.  In the instance mentioned, however, the gentleman concerned clearly spoke the national language of the United Kingdom and was simply trying to make a point, without caring who was traumatised in the process.

[DaveR]

It's a storm in a teacup, certainly but I don't understand why, when the assistant was a fluent Welsh speaker, she wouldn't speak to him in Welsh though?

It's also pretty poor, in that part of the world, that the first Police officer who arrived could not speak Welsh. 

[Ian]

It's also pretty poor, in that part of the world, that the first Police officer who arrived could not speak Welsh.

I agree, although I'd believed a compulsory Welsh Language fluency requirement was part of the Police application process, and has been for some time.

[Cambrian]

According to the newspaper I have seen, the issue was not that the assistant did not speak Welsh to him (it seems she did) but that she preferred to give the amount owed in English.  In my experience a great many Welsh speakers tend to use English when referring to numbers.

[Yorkie]

It's also pretty poor, in that part of the world, that the first Police officer who arrived could not speak Welsh.

I agree, although I'd believed a compulsory Welsh Language fluency requirement was part of the Police application process, and has been for some time.

And as the requirement of some fluency in Welsh spreads around the retail and service sectors, there will only be jobs for Welsh speakers.  This has already been seen in Hospitals and in some shops (shall I mention Betwys y Coed?), and efforts have been made elsewhere.   Let's remember that in this case the man did speak English and was just wanting to exercise his "rights" whatever they are.

Bloody good job that all the British and English owned businesses take on Welsh speakers!

This old chestnut about language needs burying and we should all get on with our normal lives.

[DaveR]

Surely, in the case of those jobs, learning Welsh is only another skill that needs to be learned?

[Yorkie]

Surely, in the case of those jobs, learning Welsh is only another skill that needs to be learned?

Learning a language for an adult is not the easiest thing in the World.    But it has been noticed that for most professional people such as Doctors, Lawyers, Surgeons, etc. etc.  there does not seem to be any requirement to  speak or even understand the Welsh language!  Funny old world we live in.

Have a look at public service adverts and the phrase "the ability to communicate with the client in their preferred language" appears.  But that only covers Welsh and English and therefore implies that applicants must be bi-lingual.  There is no one available to speak to me in Dutch as far as I am aware.   
 

[Fester]

It's also pretty poor, in that part of the world, that the first Police officer who arrived could not speak Welsh.

I agree, although I'd believed a compulsory Welsh Language fluency requirement was part of the Police application process, and has been for some time.

A 'basic' degree of Welsh is required when applying for the Police, and a CD is available for applicants to practise with.
However, if you want 'Fluent' speakers, then you would rule out over 80% of the population.
This would very seriously impair and restrict the quality of the police officers that are recruited.

[DaveR]

It's also pretty poor, in that part of the world, that the first Police officer who arrived could not speak Welsh.

I agree, although I'd believed a compulsory Welsh Language fluency requirement was part of the Police application process, and has been for some time.

A 'basic' degree of Welsh is required when applying for the Police, and a CD is available for applicants to practise with.
However, if you want 'Fluent' speakers, then you would rule out over 80% of the population.
This would very seriously impair and restrict the quality of the police officers that are recruited.

Similarly, how would an English only speaking Policeman be able to deal with a situation where everyone is speaking Welsh? People who don't think this is a problem have never spent any time in areas of North Wales where large numbers of the population express themselves best in their first language, Welsh.

[Yorkie]

Similarly, how would an English only speaking Policeman be able to deal with a situation where everyone is speaking Welsh? People who don't think this is a problem have never spent any time in areas of North Wales where large numbers of the population express themselves best in their first language, Welsh.

Your final comment implies that such folk are also able to converse in another language, so why not use it when it is really required to do so?

The situation you mention would be handled effectively and efficiently as the English Police Officer does in parts of the major cities where such happenings occur regularly and neither of the antagonists speak English let alone the same language!  I am sure that if it were required of a Welsh policeman to deal with me (should I chose not to speak English) he would find a translator quite easily as dealing with other languages is now a common occurrence.   When I was in the Met we had a complete mix of nationalities and whilst language was a problem it was never insurmountable.
 ZXZ

[DaveR]

Similarly, how would an English only speaking Policeman be able to deal with a situation where everyone is speaking Welsh? People who don't think this is a problem have never spent any time in areas of North Wales where large numbers of the population express themselves best in their first language, Welsh.

Your final comment implies that such folk are also able to converse in another language, so why not use it when it is really required to do so?

The situation you mention would be handled effectively and efficiently as the English Police Officer does in parts of the major cities where such happenings occur regularly and neither of the antagonists speak English let alone the same language!  I am sure that if it were required of a Welsh policeman to deal with me (should I chose not to speak English) he would find a translator quite easily as dealing with other languages is now a common occurrence.   When I was in the Met we had a complete mix of nationalities and whilst language was a problem it was never insurmountable.
 ZXZ

Of course, the Welsh person can speak two languages, unlike the English only speaking Policeman. However, being as Welsh is their first language, the nuances and detail of what they are trying to say may be lost or distorted when it has be translated into English, particularly in a stressful situation. I'm sure you'd agree it would be very important to get accurate information in such cases.

Given the Met's history on race relations, i.e. being found to be 'institutionally racist', they may not be the best example to quote!

[Yorkie]

Similarly, how would an English only speaking Policeman be able to deal with a situation where everyone is speaking Welsh? People who don't think this is a problem have never spent any time in areas of North Wales where large numbers of the population express themselves best in their first language, Welsh.

Your final comment implies that such folk are also able to converse in another language, so why not use it when it is really required to do so?

The situation you mention would be handled effectively and efficiently as the English Police Officer does in parts of the major cities where such happenings occur regularly and neither of the antagonists speak English let alone the same language!  I am sure that if it were required of a Welsh policeman to deal with me (should I chose not to speak English) he would find a translator quite easily as dealing with other languages is now a common occurrence.   When I was in the Met we had a complete mix of nationalities and whilst language was a problem it was never insurmountable.
 ZXZ

Of course, the Welsh person can speak two languages, unlike the English only speaking Policeman. However, being as Welsh is their first language, the nuances and detail of what they are trying to say may be lost or distorted when it has be translated into English, particularly in a stressful situation. I'm sure you'd agree it would be very important to get accurate information in such cases.

Given the Met's history on race relations, i.e. being found to be 'institutionally racist', they may not be the best example to quote!

Suggest to withdraw the final comment unless you have proof certain.   The Met have been accused of institutional racism but no court has yet supported the accusation as being general throughout the Force although some individual Officers have been brought to book.

I would also remind you that the predominant language in Wales is, in fact, English.   Only a minority of the population speak Welsh and even then there is the great divide in the language twixt North and South.

I also note that your Forum operates in English and there is not one thread that uses only the Welsh language, so there is an idea for you.  Or even make it all Welsh and see what happens.
 

[wrex]

I really think that there are some subjects that should be left,can you imagine us Welsh getting involved in the imigrants coming into England must speak English debate,the facts are that like myself most of us people along the coast have been either lazy or brain washed into not adopting our language,but the facts are we have our own language and we respect those who choose to use it.