European Union Vote

[joanne.c]

I like the idea of the EU but it does need reform to bring it back to the original purpose it was formed. I worry that many people see this vote as a vote for or against immigration as the many posts before me prove. I vote IN because of the women's and workers rights they have engaged the union in, I am also aware of all the great funding this country (Wales!) gets towards roads, local communities,  small businesses, farming etc. If anyone thinks this government will invest in their communities as the EU have done, they will be sorely disappointed. I think we are safer in the EU to be protected from the TTIP, a very real and frightening prospect. The big guns coming out to support Brexit- Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, hardly the most honest or intelligent of people. No, I'll vote IN whilst under this government, I don't trust the Tories to protect all the rights the EU have given us over the next 4 years. A different government my decision may be different.

[born2run]

In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.

So by your logic. There are 10 million pensioners in the UK. The 50 million younger people should all gang up and vote to scrap or severely reduce the pension?
Likewise the 57 million working people should all vote to scrap unemployment benefit for the 3 million or so who need it?

 

[Fester]

In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.

So by your logic. There are 10 million pensioners in the UK. The 50 million younger people should all gang up and vote to scrap or severely reduce the pension?
Likewise the 57 million working people should all vote to scrap unemployment benefit for the 3 million or so who need it?

 

If only there were 57m working people B2R.....   things might not be so bleak.

[born2run]

You're right - forgot about pensioners and children - 38 million working people

[Ian]

    In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.

So by your logic. There are 10 million pensioners in the UK. The 50 million younger people should all gang up and vote to scrap or severely reduce the pension? Likewise the 57 million working people should all vote to scrap unemployment benefit for the 3 million or so who need it?

One big problem with that strategy is that we don't live in a true democracy. Remember, in any General election the parties that win almost invariably have fewer votes than the losers.

[Blongb]

In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.

So by your logic. There are 10 million pensioners in the UK. The 50 million younger people should all gang up and vote to scrap or severely reduce the pension?
Likewise the 57 million working people should all vote to scrap unemployment benefit for the 3 million or so who need it?

No way BTR, as the 10 million Pensioners in the UK who mostly have paid their full N.I. contributions into the system are fully entitled to their Pension, as it has been earned and paid for by them. If each successive Government over the years did not make provision to pay what is rightfully ours, that's not the fault of the Pensioners.

If the 3 million unemployed had to report for local council work from 8 to 5 Monday to Friday to get their free and mostly non cotributed unemployment benefit that would be a very good start.

[Hugo]

I'm still very much undecided about the EU vote as both sides are supplying  misleading information to the public.   There is definitely something wrong with the free movement of people within the EU when it allows unemployed people  to come  and claim unemployment benefit here that is in some cases four times greater than they were receiving in their home country.
On the other hand if we opt out of Europe, would we do anything like the valid point Blongb has suggested   "If the 3 million unemployed had to report for local council work from 8 to 5 Monday to Friday to get their free and mostly non contributed unemployment benefit that would be a very good start."
I very much doubt if it would be done, but it's wrong when a section of society that is physically and mentally capable of work refuses to  work but expects to receive something for nothing

[DaveR]

You're right - forgot about pensioners and children - 38 million working people

Afraid not, there are 31.41 million people in work, as of February 2016.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2016

[born2run]

In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you, never mind what's right for your wife, sons, daughters, parents, friends or neighbours. They have there own vote and that way, democracy should prevail.

So by your logic. There are 10 million pensioners in the UK. The 50 million younger people should all gang up and vote to scrap or severely reduce the pension?
Likewise the 57 million working people should all vote to scrap unemployment benefit for the 3 million or so who need it?

No way BTR, as the 10 million Pensioners in the UK who mostly have paid their full N.I. contributions into the system are fully entitled to their Pension, as it has been earned and paid for by them. If each successive Government over the years did not make provision to pay what is rightfully ours, that's not the fault of the Pensioners.

If the 3 million unemployed had to report for local council work from 8 to 5 Monday to Friday to get their free and mostly non cotributed unemployment benefit that would be a very good start.

I totally agree! But you said "In any election / referendum you should only ever vote for what you think is right for you"
Paying all our money out to pensioners doesn't benefit me in the slightest but I support it because I know it's right.
That's where you were wrong in saying that you should only ever vote for things that benefit yourself.

As for your last point if all the jobless go and do council work from 8 till 5 for free! What are all the council workers going to do? They won't need there jobs anymore so they will be unemployed so they will have to go back and do their own council job...for free!
Not the best logic I'm afraid ££$

[DaveR]

As for your last point if all the jobless go and do council work from 8 till 5 for free! What are all the council workers going to do? They won't need there jobs anymore so they will be unemployed so they will have to go back and do their own council job...for free!
Not the best logic I'm afraid ££$

I suspect Blongb means doing work additional to that currently carried out by under resourced Council staff - there are certainly many public areas  that would benefit from a tidyup etc.

[Blongb]

Spot on Dave.

[born2run]

As for your last point if all the jobless go and do council work from 8 till 5 for free! What are all the council workers going to do? They won't need there jobs anymore so they will be unemployed so they will have to go back and do their own council job...for free!
Not the best logic I'm afraid ££$

I suspect Blongb means doing work additional to that currently carried out by under resourced Council staff - there are certainly many public areas  that would benefit from a tidyup etc.

Then it sounds like there are jobs that should be created if the council doesn't have enough people to do them. That means jobs iwth a minimum wage, annual leave, sickness benefits etc I think that would be preferable than the slavery Blongb is suggesting.

[born2run]

Just before anyone chimes in and suggest it wouldn't be slavery

Jobseekers allowance for under 25s is £57.35 - you're suggesting they work from 8 until 5 - (lets give them an hour unpaid lunch break why not) that's working 8 hours a day -  you want them to do it 5 days a week  - that's 40 hours a week so their hourly wage would be £1.43 per hour.

That doesn't sound like a fair wage for a fair work to me. 

[DaveR]

Just before anyone chimes in and suggest it wouldn't be slavery

Jobseekers allowance for under 25s is £57.35 - you're suggesting they work from 8 until 5 - (lets give them an hour unpaid lunch break why not) that's working 8 hours a day -  you want them to do it 5 days a week  - that's 40 hours a week so their hourly wage would be £1.43 per hour.

That doesn't sound like a fair wage for a fair work to me. 

But, on the other hand, you're suggesting it is fair for them to receive the money in exchange for doing nothing at all...?

[Bosun]

I think that Blongb touches on a point here that many feel feel uneasy with, money for nothing for economic migrants and for those who choose not to work. The balance between benefits and work is difficult, I have had part time staff that refuse to do more hours because it affects their benefits, and people who came for interviews because if they didn't attend, it jeopardises their 'job seekers allowance', and they don't want the job anyway because it not worth working when they can get money for nothing from the state topped up by cash in hand work when they feel like it. 

I personally believe that claimants should put something back into society, perhaps by doing some kind of community work a couple of days a week and I also believe that everyone, not just immigrants, should have a five year proven work record before they should be able to access benefits and social housing.