Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 140837 times)

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Offline born2run

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2016, 12:16:17 pm »
Perhaps because there is already 2 million of them in Turkey? Where is the proof anywhere that migration leads to an uncivilized society?
There are many other safe countries between Syria and Germany (Romania, Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Hungary, Austria), why would they not simply head for the nearest safe country?

Perhaps you can explain how already overstretched public services can cope with yet more people?  In the UK, for example, we are already short of housing, the NHS is in crisis, education is struggling...how would we cope with yet more people and who would pay for them all?

They pay for themselves, most of them are younger and thus work and contribute to the economy. What would we do without foreign doctors?

As for your other question this is a good read - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/ten-myths-migration-europe

‘Basic services such as hospitals and schools collapse’
This is one of the arguments that people who are hostile to immigrants take refuge in. If they come to Europe as citizens with rights, won’t they end up abusing our most valuable benefit, the welfare state?

“There hasn’t been any study showing this link between immigration and the abuse of social services,” says Sergio Carrera, a researcher at the Centre for European Policy Studies, one of the most influential thinktanks in Europe.

Some experts have tried to take the complex task on, of calculating the difference of what immigrants bring to public budgets and what they consume. A recent study by the Migration Policy Centre, using figures from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, shows that foreigners are net contributors (they add more to the state than they spend), across almost the whole continent, apart from in seven countries (with Spain among them).

Still, surveys in Spain show that immigrants are net contributors for health; they get ill less frequently because they tend to be younger and have a more urgent need to be fit for work than the native population.

El País

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2016, 12:59:39 pm »
The article doesn't explain how the severe lack of affordable housing in this country will be helped by thousands upon thousands of migrants coming to live here? How will the 1.7million people who are already unemployed in this country get a job when all these extra people are entering the country looking for work? Where will their children go to school when schools are already overcrowded?

It comes down to those pragmatic questions in the end...where will all the extra houses come from? Where will all the extra jobs come from? Where will all the extra school places come from?

Your answers, please.


Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2016, 01:41:52 pm »
Quote
where will all the extra houses come from?


Figures released by the DotE last year suggested there was adequate housing for everyone in the UK and even enough to account for a 5% increase in population. The problem is not insufficient housing: it's the selfish and greedy who have more than one house, or who sit on large numbers of houses, hoping their value will accumulate. There's a lot of that going on.

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Where will all the extra jobs come from?

Polish immigration to the UK brought over more than three-quarters of a million Poles, yet very few are without work. IME, Poles work  very hard, are more or less keeping the hospitality industry afloat and are generally very pleasant individuals. Obviously, we're not talking about absorbing the entire population of Syria but these things have a way of working themselves out. It's worth remembering, however, societies become richer and more productive from absorbing migrants of all types, and not isolating themselves and excluding them.

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Where will all the extra school places come from?

The DofE maintains a five year rolling plan which accounts for the variations in birthrates. UK citizens born in the UK produced an increase of 25% in the birthrate last year alone, and school places are planned to correspond with those variations.  UK birthrates have a long-term cycle, and the current phase is upward.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2016, 02:12:57 pm »
Although these things might have a way of 'working themselves out', it is not usually without a cost, some pain, or a deterioration in the quality of service.
For example, in Stoke, they are short of Maths teachers, so the council will pay off the student loan of any newly graduated Maths teachers. (BBC News today), this is many thousands of pounds being spent by council tax payers as a direct result of a lack of teachers.

A more parochial example; my niece embarked on a 2 year teacher training course, to teach 7-11 year olds in Leeds.
However, after 6 months, they have 'found a way' to make her 'qualified' more quickly, and she and several of her colleagues have been fast-tracked in order to teach children where English is not their first language.

Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2016, 02:36:31 pm »
Ian,  I wouldn't pay too much attention to statistics from the DotE as statistics can be manipulated in many ways by Goverment Departments or by policies imposed on them by the Government in power.
Take for instance "where will all the extra houses come from?"     If there is already sufficient housing for the needs of the population then why does the Government insist on Councils having a local development plan and making sure that the local authority sticks to the plan?

where will all the extra jobs come from?        It's strange how the UK has such a high amount of unemployed people yet there seems to be a lot of work available for the migrants until you look further into the matter.   You've mentioned the Poles as an example and I can only reiterate that the Poles I know are very hard working.    When the Poles set up in business in the UK they start advertising for employees, but not here in Britain but back home in Poland.    Why is that allowed by the UK?
I'm  no fan of David Cameron, far from it, but he gave an example of a certain type of Benefit being claimed in the UK and of the 28 counties in the EU,  Poland was claiming 41 per cent of the total benefit.  The remaining benefit of 59 per cent was claimed by the other 27  countries.   What he was saying was a fact, yet the Polish Prime Minister had a go at him for saying the truth.
Since the Polish workers have come over here they can claim like any other EU country for child benefits even if the child is not living in the UK.     Perhaps it's no more that a coincidence but the request for child benefits in Poland has risen by 500,000 in that period which does seem strange

where will all the extra houses come from?   Well I can't even begin to think about that one as we are always told that the classrooms are overcrowded and there is a shortage of teachers.   In the inner cities, some with about 72 different languages spoken, how can they possibly cope with all that
.


   

Offline Neil

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2016, 05:19:46 pm »
Independence Day, 23rd June 2016  $uk

Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2016, 06:58:12 pm »
Just a correction to the last paragraph in my previous posting, it should of course have read " Where will all the extra school places come from?"         

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2016, 12:07:37 am »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?
Fester...
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Offline bigbadhenry

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2016, 09:16:21 am »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?

Why would we, he isn't worth bothering with

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2016, 11:06:14 am »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?

Why would we, he isn't worth bothering with

Well, neither are most of the things we chunter on about on here, but it doesn't usually stop us?
Fester...
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Offline Hugo

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2016, 09:47:18 pm »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?

Why would we, he isn't worth bothering with

I didn't even realise he was here nor did I know about Jeremy Corbyn being here either.      That's makes two then that are not worth bothering with.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2016, 10:37:12 am »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?
We saw lots of UKIPers about on Friday night, they seemed to be composed of two main types of people:

1) Short men in cheap suits
2) Nutters

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2016, 11:39:41 am »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?
We saw lots of UKIPers about on Friday night, they seemed to be composed of two main types of people:

1) Short men in cheap suits
2) Nutters

But I am a nutter and had a cheap suit on, which category must I be included in?
Fester...
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Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2016, 12:38:22 pm »
Mr Farage has been strutting his stuff in Llandudno for the last 2 days, staying at the Llandudno Bay hotel, and holding court outside The Albert holding a pint.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it on here?
We saw lots of UKIPers about on Friday night, they seemed to be composed of two main types of people:

1) Short men in cheap suits
2) Nutters

But I am a nutter and had a cheap suit on, which category must I be included in?
Both, I imagine?  ;D

Offline Jelly Baby

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2016, 04:01:33 am »
I'm a bit confused how someone doing a 2-year teachers training course being "fast-forwarded" to completion within 6 months is a good thing?  ???
Also, from what I've read in the Daily Mail online (and we all know they would never lie to us, would they?!  :-*) there are already schools where entire classes are being held back because most of the children don't even speak English. How is that good for education?  ???
Just saying....
Oh, and now that there's a Cease Fire in place, can't you send those FIT, YOUNG men back home to help with the rebuilding? Even though they seemed awfully reluctant in the first place to defend their own homeland, they would surely be anxious to be a part of its restoration?  :roll:
If I were still a resident in the UK, I know I'd be wanting my country's borders secure, so my vote would be for Brexit, only right now!!
(And I do know about secure borders, we've got them in Oz because our pollies developed backbones! Only for a while, sure, but it was better than the NOTHING your lot are doing!!!)