Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes

[Hugo]

Thanks very much Suepp   

[karenjadejoy]

thanks to both of you
yes it does help,  i saw some of those names on the census lists but that gives more of an understanding where they are in relation to each  othore and pyllau and baron hill.

im off away agin this coming week,

thanks for looking hugo  and suepp much appreciated.
i shall keep hunting up,   and and something will pop up it usually does, at somepoint.

and let you know if anything useful occurs !!!

[Hugo]

After going to the Archives I went up the Great Orme to St Tudno's Church and on the way called at St Beuno's Road and took the photo of Baron Hill.
Carrying on to St Tudno's I found the Owen's graves quite easily.   There are two graves next to each other and directly in front of the open air pulpit that is near the old Church.   I remember reading a comment on the forum before that people of importance were buried near the Church and quite honestly these graves couldn't be much nearer it.
The Grave that appears to be on supports is for the children of Edward and Margaret Owen .    The inscription which is in English is as follows:-
In loving memory of Edward Owen the beloved child of Edward and Margaret Owen  Y Pyllau Llandudno.  Died Jan 12th 1858 aged 3 years.
Also William Owen the beloved son of the above named Edward and Margaret Owen  died Oct  7th 1887 aged 36 years.
Grave No A097 next to it is for Edwart Owen and Margaret Owen and is inscribed in Welsh.    What is a coincidence is that they both died on February 4th,    Edwart in 1863 aged 46  and Margaret in 1903 aged 87

[karenjadejoy]

thanks Hugo,
amazing photos  they couldnt have got closer to the church,  on the doorstep literally!!
just popping in,  not online permanently at the moment.

will get back to the search  asap.

the photos are great,  i think i need to come visit Llandudno and the Orme,  its now on my to do list.
so from the foot hills of the canigou sending greeetings;

[Hugo]

I popped down to the Library today and had a quick go on Find my Past and the Census records but didn't  seem to be getting anywhere.
There are two possible death records of Robert Hughes.  The first in the Registered District of Conwy in Caernarfonshire in 1916 aged 80 in the Quarter Apr-May-June at Vol 11b  pg 677  and the other also in Conway in 1920 aged 84 in the Quarter Jul-Aug-Sept at Vol 11b  pg 531
However I have no proof that either one is your relative and it won't explain why I can't find them in the Burial Indexes at the Archives.
Baron Hill is near the top of the Orme and very steep so believe me at the age of 80 it wasn't the place to be in those days and I would expect the family to have moved from Baron Hill.
I tried using Anne Owens name and found a marriage for her with a Robert Hughes in the Conwy Registration District ( that was the District of Registration for Llandudno then )     It was in 1861 in the Quarter Jul-Aug- Sept at Vol 11b   pg706
Now again I have no evidence whatsoever that they are your relatives but in 1851 the population of Llandudno was only 1,131 and by 1861 it would have increased a bit but the odds of a marriage to two other people of the same name would be remote.

[karenjadejoy]

Hi Hugo, 
I was just popping in to leave you a message, that i just got a reply re the conveyancing of Baron hill. from the archives at St Helens.
its an 8 page handwritten doc,   that needs perusing and deciphering!!! at leisure. to see what it contains, gancing i saw mention of roberts name and also john Owens. im wondering if it was just land or if the cottages were there) i shall read up and see what is said. (i can send you it in an email if you, or anyone else wants to have a read. bit big to attach here KBytes  wise

 i shall follow that info up you got re Roberts Marriage, and see what i can come up with. i would agree, re not so many- people of those names in the area. and i imagine applying for those marriage certificate might at least clarify if its them or not. ill try and do that on the next internet connection time.

now i have made a connection with an ancestor of thomas Owens,  whom with John Owens, (ann's brothers)  had a building company.

 it would seem, to my mind, as Robert Hughes was married  to their sister, and was a stonemason   (and apparently built cottages etcetc) perhaps Robert and his offspring also stone masons, worked for/with the Owens building company. is there anyway to look into those sort of things in the archives? i understand owens building company is listed in the llandudno directory 1889-90 at anglesea, north madoc street.  and it went on succesfully for at least another 35yrs till tramway accdents!!  would there be any way to find out the company workers or associates or

well i can at least try for the marriage certificate of that Robert Hughes and Ann owens, as we know her parents names and addresses. to see if its them.


and hopefully next week i can have access a bit more time on the internet.

thanks   

[Hugo]

Here is a very early photo of Edward Owen's building firm which had a yard in Back Madoc Street.     I wonder if this Edward was a relative of yours.

[karenjadejoy]

maybe its the same builders.

the info i got given re owen and co. builders - much of their development was along north madoc street and Bodhyfryd road. (over 100 large buildings)
including the Clarence hotel in gloddaeth Ave, the craigside hydro near the little orme and the Baths hotel.
also involved in building the great orme tramway.
 (their fathers name was Edward, but he died in 1863  and was a miner. and the building business was founded i think from what im reading in around  the 1890s. and their brother edward died as a child in 1853)  so it could be them or it may not be.

re the purchase of Baron hill lot 30  in a sale. the highest bidders were messrs Thos and John Owens,  13th dec 1889 for the sum of £55.00   which was paid by Robert Hughes (who was given ownership of all the land and the cottage known as Baron hill.

so it looks like the owens bros   bought the land and then transferred it to their brother in law Robert Hughes.  and my dad said he built cottages, there,  so ive attached the plan of the lot,  and im guessing that other cottages were built, in that area.

so searching for Robert and ann marriage today on the LDS  site, i came up with this which is what you mentioned i believe.  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC27-FGR
and i think that has to be them,  its the only one of those names, in and around Llandudno over a few years span.  so i think i need to get hold of the certificate to seee i i can find out Roberts parents names.  come up with a couple of births in Llangefni today.   but without a clue of names its not too clear.   but lets see when i manage to get a marriage certificate  ordered.  i shall try to trace it up on BMD uk to order if i can find the marriage there!!!  lol.

time for bed said sleepy head.

[karenjadejoy]

just found this, googling  i guess this is who i got my info from 

Fighting along the banks of the Tigris - Thomas John Owen

Thomas John Owen was a 2nd Lt in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, and my great-uncle.

His regiment were fighting along the banks of the Tigris in Mesopotamia with the South Wales Borderers against the Turks, in the campaign which led to the eventual capture of Baghdad in 1917.

He was wounded in the battle and died on February 19th 1917 aged 26. He is buried at Al Amarah War Cemetery in Iraq, and there is a memorial inscription on the family grave in St Tudno's Churchyard, Llandudno.

Descended from farmers and copper miners on the Great Orme, his family were prominent in the development of modern Llandudno.

His father John and uncle Thomas became successful builders in the latter part of the 19th century, constructing several large hotels including the Craigside Hydro and the Clarence Hotel and over100 houses in Llandudno, and also building the track for the Great Orme tramway.

As Thomas was the only surviving son out of eight children, we can only imagine how his early death must have affected his family.


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nostalgia/world-war-i-families-remember-6694793

[Jack]

Thomas John Owen was working in Manchester at the outbreak of the FWW. He died of wounds after being shot in the arm in the advance on Kut.  Earlier in the war he been admitted to hospital suffering from dysentery but soon recovered and re-joined the 8th battalion of the Royal Welsh; the battalion to which he was attached.
Next of kin: John Owen, Avallon, Abbey Road, Llandudno.

[Hugo]

Hi Karen,   I was at the Archives again and looked at the Banns of Marriage for 1961 (see photo)  and can confirm that these were your relatives who got married on 24th Sept 1861.
Robert Hughes was living in West Derby in 1861 so he should be in the England Census for that year,  Anne Owens of Llandudno should be in the Wales Census for that year.
What I found very interesting was who read the Banns.   The writing is illegible and the Archivist couldn't read it but after a while it struck a cord.
I'm nearly 100 per cent certain that it says "The Dean of Christ Church Oxford"  and if I am correct then it is Dean Henry Liddell who was the father of "Alice in Wonderland"   that's Alice Liddell on whom Lewis Carroll based his book on.
Dean Henry Liddell was living at St Tudno's (by the pier) in 1861 and is in fact on the 1861 Census there.   Later on he had a house built on the West Shore called Penmorfa which was later converted to a hotel but is now sadly demolished.

I make no apologies for posting this photo again as it is my favourite.  It's a water colour painting of Penmorfa painted by Dean Henry Liddell

[Hugo]

After finding out about the Wedding Banns I had a look in the Burial Index for St Tudno's and the inscription listed on the grave for Margaret and John Owen ( Grave G018)    was very sad to read and I've copied it as it was printed there:-
Dedicated to the sacred memory of the beloved children of John and Margaret Owen Avallon  Llandudno.  Richard Henry died March 10th 1897 aged 10 months, William stillborn,  Edward Goronwy died March 8th 1910.
Ascended to her own glorious rest at dawn of Sabbath Day Nov 16th 1924 aged 67 years.   Also 2nd Lieut. Thomas J Owen 8th Batt.  Royal Welch Fusiliers, the last surviving son of John and Margaret Owen Avallon,   died of wounds received at the Battle of the Tigris, Mesopotamia Feb 19th 1917 aged 26 years.
Nor blame I death because he bare
the use of virtue out of earth
I know transplanted human worth
will bloom to profit other where.

There appears to be no mention of John Owen though.

Anyway I drove up to St Tudno's Church and at Grave G018 I took the photos of the grave.  The first two are of the grave itself and the next is of the tomb next to it and then of three graves.    Those three graves are very impressive and are all  Owens so they could all be related somehow.

[Cambrian]

Well spotted Hugo.  It is the Dean of Christ Church.

[Hugo]

Thanks Cambrian,        I had the magnifying glass out but it was the Oxford that made it  clear and I remember reading about Dean Henry Liddell on this forum.
I think he was in Llandudno for about 10 years but I don't think that he was here when they did the 1871 Census

[Cambrian]

I knew John Owen (Avallon) rang a bell.  His name is on the plaque on the wall of the Town Hall.  He seems to have been chairman of the UDC at the time of building.