Margaret Anne Pearl Hughes

[karenjadejoy]

definitely them.
1871 census of  margaret owen and family edward not present on this census but all the chidren are
live pyllo Llandudno
have two grandsons living with them richard hughes  and edward hughes (sons of robert and ann owens)
plus one grandson  thomas o edwards (could this be anne child to an earlier marriage or?  the other girls seem a bit young but??)

in 1861 census for edward and margaret owen and family
19 pen y buarth  parish st tudnos
one grandson thomas edwards   anne does not live at home though not as yet married to robert hughes. possibly married to a mr edwards
edward owen is a copper miner

so i think we have established anne owens family   next generation up
and i better go and try and collate all this info and names  before i write any more here, 
and get some sleep!

and that means the pic of the three nains of margaret anne pearl hughes
one is margaret owen,   one is Anne owen-hughes  and the third is likely to be ? 

[karenjadejoy]

Whilst I haven't time to check this out right at the moment, the above family seem very reminiscent of John OWEN of Avalon's although the ages aren't totally consistent.

john was with his brother William age 28, and sister Ellen age 30 or 36 9Not totally clear) in 1881 at Milton house in what I think may be Gloddaeth St.  Will check when I can.  Didn't find the family readily on a previous search but would be the Ann Owen and John Owen link

Jom  from your previous comments of john owen  and his parents, i have made the connection through to him and it is the same family line,  (opened up a can of owens here!!!) john and My ann owens are sibs  parents being edward Owens and margaret Ellis.
 and its anne that married robert hughes   parents of ishmael hughes my grans dad.

and thus it is the john owens who was executor of ishmaels will in 1907 (his uncle).  alderman i see !!!
i am a bit on info overload  and trying to collate whilst i have internet on tap!!

[Hugo]

I called at the Archives today but could not find any record of a grave for Robert & Anne in the Burial records there but I'm not giving up on it yet.

What I found was:-
In the 1911 Street Index Robert is shown as living at Baron Hill, however the 1914 Street Index does not show Robert at Baron Hill.   Has he moved or died in the meantime?
I also found this article on Robert     
Naughty boy Robert   

[karenjadejoy]

naughty boy!!!

it perhaps runs in the family  because  as far as i understand
ishmael, edward,(ted)  and supposedly robert but it might have been richard all went off to america to gold/silver mine in colarado where they had shares between them.  however there was a family sipute amongst them and apparently the two others ran off with the money.   but as yet i have only just found the brothers  thanks to all your help. and some details on them,  so i may also with time fill that story in.
(its ok im not out to get them!!!   i think ishmael did ok for himself as it was!!)

well it would seem the owens lived at pyllau,  so that that connection made, and to rather alot of owens in Llandudno.

so lets get back to some hughes for a while  i have not got a death on robert,
i suppose he could have gone to america also and died there as a thought i can look into.

thanks Hugo   i think i will have to be coming to the orme one of these fine days  and  meet the ancestors  lol
catch you all later

[karenjadejoy]

Hugo a question,
were there any hughes living at baron hill in 1914 street index?  william lived with them in 1911 census
i note it is also the begining of WW1  and robert would be 77 and anne 73 going by the 1911 census

so if no hughes they may have sold up  i willl have a hunt around and see if anything crops up

[Hugo]

Karen,  I can't remember the name of the person living there in the 1914 Street Index but it wasn't Robert Hughes.      There were a number of Robert Hughes' in the Street Indexes living at other addresses in Llandudno but there was no evidence in the Index to link it to your relative.

If they were still alive at that time and in poor health they may have been living with a relative and there is no way for me to check this but it doesn't explain why I couldn't find them in the Burial Indexes.

[karenjadejoy]

hi hugo,
no i cant find anything as yet,

and its also diffficult to trace up the children  and where they are in the later years.
but i will keep chugging at it,  at some point some clue will turn up.


and thats me for the night, cant think logically anymore and i have done hundreds of searches this past 24 hrs on ancestry. and i cant think logical anymore.  cheers hugo,  im off to catch up on sleep
 

[Hugo]

Karen,   I've been having a look on the Census records and also on Find my past but cannot find anything that you haven't found out yourself already.
For example in the 1841 Wales Census I was searching for Robert Hughes and although I entered the criteria for him, 3797 entries came up 
I had a look at a few of the pages but then gave up.
Sometimes you think that you have the right person, but as Jom has said and found out, you need definitive proof that they are your relatives before you can say for certain that they are the ones you are looking for.

[Hugo]

I came across this in a long and drawn out will for Joseph Evans of Shropshire, Lancashire & Wales 1817-1889

Conveyance of freehold hereditaments known as and called Baron Hill  EV/92/22  4th February 1890

Full details of the will are held by the St Helens Archives   localhistory&archivesservices@sthelens.gov.uk

[karenjadejoy]

Hugo,
yes i learned that one a wee while ago,   need things confrimed so easy to guess an get it wrong !!!
thus patience is a virtue,   you just keep an eye open for the clue to pop up and follow it through.

i started as a kid, i have a little book that i drew a family tree on  as a 12yr old, sitting in front of the fire at tan y bryn farm waunfawr.   i only took it as far as my great grandparents, and i asked questions but i didnt make notes in those days.  so i have been hunting up these hughes and southworths  for a good few years. i have patience,  and even if it has to wait till the next set of census records published in a few years time    hopefully something will spring up before then!

 _))*i guess if i could just find their marriage, then i could get the certificate and parental names,  as nothing turns up for robert in Llangefni. (does it have any other names?  that come under llangefni, i presume if he said Llangefni it meant that.

but i was chatting to my mum on the phone earlier, and told her the story of robert and the policeman,  and she came out with,  that emma/ishmael had a relative who was a policeman in caernarvon; on questioning she couldnt remember anything.  maybe it was that one he ruffed up. 

and she also told me that it was ishmaels brother, that would have signed the burial papers for him in new york and that they had to send to his wife emma for the money to bury him, so i might try to find which brother that was !!!  as seem to have come to a halt for the moment on robert.
 
me mum has hughes's  as well from Llanberis way,  and they are as equally elusive. 

ive sent an email to the st helens archives re that will you linked to (after googling and getting that  it was the sale of baron hill to robert from the estate of mr Evans esq.)  to see if they by any chance have any more details on Robert other than the bit i found, in their archives and if a transcript is available, if there is. see that pen y buarth was also sold (thats where robert and ann lived prior to baron hill. as renters i would guess).

Would anyone know the maiden surname, of John Owen of avalon (the aldemans) first wife margaret?

so summarising wonder if baron hill was sold between 1911 and 14 or passed onto a family member.
where/what happened to robert and Anne in those years
info on their children,  where they went or married to whom.  giz a job i can do that!!!

[Hugo]

 _))*i guess if i could just find their marriage, then i could get the certificate and parental names,  as nothing turns up for robert in Llangefni. (does it have any other names?  that come under llangefni, i presume if he said Llangefni it meant that

Karen, it could mean the town of Llangefni or the Registration town of Llangefni ( in other words villages or towns nearby in that Parish)
I did try "UK Census online" last night and it said that it was free on the site so when I narrowed Robert Hughes down to 4 names and then asked for further details I was referred to a page that gave the charges for finding out that info     :rage:
I don't subscribe to them so it was quite annoying to find out that it wasn't free after all.

Whose marriage are you looking for?

[karenjadejoy]

How annoying Hugo,
 free bit not quite  lol!!!

 the marriage (or its info!!)
of Robert Hughes born Llangefni, c1836.  to Anne Owen born Llandudno. c1940   marriage date c1962
 (according to the 1911 census records. no. of years married column).

  I would guess they married in Llandudno, as her family lived there.  but no idea if that's so.

Thus I could likely get the names of Roberts parents, so one could perhaps find his birth data easier.
and maybe where he was until 1881 officially.

 and that would make finding his birth and any siblings etcetc  and where he may have been on the 1941  census. 
i have nothing for him prior to 1881 census, though i know he had children born in llandudno prior to this date.

(her parents being Edward Owen and margaret owen nee ellis.)  who are also interred in st tudnos,   and Lived at pyllau farm. with some of their Hughes grand children)

do you think Pyllo cottage in 1851   is the same as the later Pyllau farm 1881/91 census?  or a different place perhaps

and is pen y buarth  anywhere near there?  im guessing it is on the great orme. i need a small geography lesson again!!!

and the st helens archives are going to have a look and get back to me.  will let you know when they do. and if there is anything useful from them.

so not alot new today but sorting through     but an inscription in welsh  of Edward and margaret owens gravestone in St Tudno's  from another person researching owens; cant read it but the salient dates i can see and  are useful    

edward died in 1863  and margaret in 1903; that seems to fit with the census recs.  i havnt hunted up death records on them as yet.  still focusing on the Hughes side of things.   :rage:

g'night  for now.

[Hugo]

You've got lots of questions and yet more answers to find out Karen but you've done a lot of research already.
With regards to Pyllau and Pylla Farm,  I haven't got the answer but there are a few old cottages in Pyllau Road and Pyllau farm is at the end of the road.  The Census of 1881 may help there.
I believe Pen Y Buarth is on the Great Orme but I don't know where exactly, perhaps Norman may have the answer because he is an Ormeite

[Hugo]

When I go to the Archives next week I'll have a look at the inscription on the headstone for Edward and Margaret Owens and translate it for you and I'll see if there is any more info on Robert.
I did look at Find my past on people emigrating from the UK but there are 42 Robert Hughes' listed and as I don't subscribe to them I couldn't go any further on the search.

[suepp]

looking at the street index for Great Ormes Head. Pen Y Buarth appears  after St Bueno's road after the following entries: St. Bueno's School & Mission, Hyfrydle Welsh Calvinistic Church, then numbers 16, 17 (which is Baron Hill) 18 and 19. After Pen y Buarth is Tan y Graig, numbers 1 &2 then Pantyffrith 1-7 and Penyffrith 1-15 Cyll Terrace etc etc hope this helps