Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding

[jom]

Jom, Maes means field and could be anywhere. For instance Maesdu, a farm in Llandudno or Pen Y Maes. There are loads of variations and the Welsh names  described where the property was.
What makes you think it was Tan Y Maes in Llandudno Junction?   Was it on the Census and shown as Llangystennin?

Yes Hugo, Susannah JONES who married John OWEN(S) was on the 1851 Llangwstennin Census and was always noted as being from there on subsequent returns till her death in 1875.  Her husband John OWEN(S) was always noted as being from Llandudno.  I have yet to find Susannah on the 1841 Census though I do have her father and some siblings again at Maes Llangwstenin.  Now you tell me "Maes" means farm, Irealise this doesn't pin it down as I had previously thought

[jom]

I am a very  new member and am reading with interest this topic. My 3X grandfather John Edwards,a miner born in Anglesey, married Sarah Jones at St.  Tudno's on 6 June 1814. Sarah, baptised at St.Tudno's on 19 Nov 1791, was the daughter of Hugh Jones (born circa 1754) and his wife Elizabeth Williams(born circa 1763); they were married at S.tTudno's on 31 Oct 1783.
John and Sarah Edwards' first born,Elizabeth, was baptised at St.Tudno's on 4 Jan 1815 and the address given is Yr Offt. Hugh Jones was buried at St. Tudno's on 17 Nov 1829 aged 75,  and the address given is Y'Rofft. Using his age at death as a datum, there is no record of baptism of a Hugh between 1750 and 1760.
The1843 Mostyn Estate rent schedule for the farms on the Great Orme includes Yr Offt(probably Y Rofft) assessed at £4.10s.0d.
In conclusion, is there a connection with the jigsaw which leads to Moses Jones (and, hopefully, to me)? Hearsay information from a long lost relative suggests that the Jones' were one of the four oldest families in Llandudno

Hi granddad,  I think you may have sent me an email re these folk via curiousfox D)  Thank you  At the moment I don't see a connection with my Hugh JONES but there may well be one waiting to be uncovered.  Will get in touch should I come across anything.  Have just come off nights and not thinking too clearly.  A little foggy brained at the moment but will look at the folk you mention and see what I can find in my bits and pieces

[jom]

Granddad,  Meant to just say my Hugh JONES family were from Gyffin.  It was Hugh who lived at Rofft in 1837 and once married to his wife Sarah went to Adwy Ryhdd

[Hugo]

Jom, there is a little misunderstanding.   Maes means means field.    The Welsh word   Fferm means farm
The example I gave  Maesdu (black field)  Farm was just a coincidence.
Maes on it's own just means field.
Incidently in those old days Llangystennin was the name of a Parish as well as the name of the village that carries it's name.  The Parish of Llangystennin covered a large area that include Pabo, Marl, Bryn Pydew, Glanwydden and Llangystennin and one or two other little places

[Hugo]

Jom,  the Census forms are usually in some type of order so if you can say the names of two properties either side of your "Maes" then it may be possible to identify the exact location.
Like I said Maes means field in English but it could still be a smallholding or something similar as this is a very rural location and people did try to be self sufficient then.

[Hugo]

I was in the Conwy Archives again and had a look at an 1889 First Edition O/S map of Rhiwledyn.  There was also Ken Dibble's book "Rhiwledyn and the Little Orme" which I had a read of.
On the O/S map it is listed as Pentre Shimdda Hir and is exactly in the spot that Cambrian mentioned and that I took the photos of ( that wall and gate)  In Ken Dibble's book it is listed as Pentre,  Pentref Uchaf and Pentre Rhiw so in effect it has been called at least 4 names.
If you go on Google Street view and look up the Craigside Inn it is opposite it.   There is actually a photo of Pentre Uchaf in the book at pg 63 but it is of very poor quality but the original photo must be available somewhere.
You probably know this Jom but Hugh Jones died on 14th Jan 1877 aged 71 and was buried at Ffolt Cemetery Glanwydden.  Now this Cemetery is also known as the Baptist Cemetery of Ainon and I've enclosed a photo I took of the Cemetery when I was last there. It's like a jungle and I had to go in with loppers to find my way in.
Sarah died on 28th Sept 1880 aged 75 and she is buried at Ffolt with Hugh so they must have been members of the Baptist Chapel

[jom]

Wow, Hugo!  You've helped no end.  I didn't have either place or date of deaths for either Sarah or Hugh just an educated guess from census returns and Free BMD with the ages noted as being about right.  I will obtain their death certs when I can.  I certainly didn't know where they were born - so again I am indebted to you.  Do you live in the archives

Cambrian has very kindly sent me photocopies of the relevant pages from Ken Dibble's book re Rhiwledlyn.  Awaiting them in the post via my mother!!  - Thank YOU Cambrian, too

[Hugo]

Pages 77/78 give the details of the deaths of Hugh and Sarah but I had already looked in the Burial records for Capel Ainon but couldn't see anything but obviously they are buried there.
I'll go back to the Archives in case I've missed something and then perhaps if I get the courage go back into the jungle with my camera.
If Hugh was a Baptist then probably Moses was too,  but this Cemetery wasn't opened until the 1830's  so Moses if he died before then may have been buried in the Baptist Cemetery at Salem Chapel Fforddlas.(Glan Conwy)

[jom]

I've only just read this on the forum   " Chronicle of events in Conwy"   by Thomas Roberts and kindly prepared by Rob Pritchard.

It is a fascinating read, especially to those people with Conwy connections.

I was really enjoying reading each item and then at No 174   look what popped up   
 No 174   Moses Jones of Dderwendeg Parish Gyffin buried 7th October 1842.

No wonder I couldn't find him on the 1851 Census!

Derwen Deg  ( Fair Oak) is where Moses was living in the 1841 Census.   Was he Hugh's father??     

. 

As we have already agreed, this isn't necessarily my Moses but hugh's marriage cert makes no mention of his father being deceased.  Again no real conclusion can be made that he therefore died after 1837 especially as it was early days of registration.  Thank you for your kind offer and as before... ANY new information would be most welcome but equally don't put yourself out.  You have already done plenty  and thank you for the photos of the cemetery

[jom]

Jom,  the Census forms are usually in some type of order so if you can say the names of two properties either side of your "Maes" then it may be possible to identify the exact location.
Like I said Maes means field in English but it could still be a smallholding or something similar as this is a very rural location and people did try to be self sufficient then.

I think the name "Maes" must be more specific than that as it is noted on their marraige certificate as Susannah's address in the Parish of Llangwstennin.  Have attached it and the relevant census returns.  I find it difficult to read the writing correctly and then understand the address or description of their residence as you can appreciate.  My direct Welsh links end with my Great Grandparents and as ALL my GRANDPARENTS died before I was born, it makes it very hard to gain a sense of location etc.

[Hugo]

Thanks Jom, I now think I know where this place is. I believe that it is on the Glanwydden Road to Llangystennin  (the Pen Y Bont road)  but will check.
I'm out for most of the day today but will look in more detail later.

[Hugo]

I'm not so sure exactly where "Maes"  is now that I have had another look at it.   I can read most of the names and also understand them but what is confusing me is that Maes appears to be in Bryn Pydew because some of those other names remain the same today. 
What has thrown me though is that some of the names Ty Cefn (back house)  and Ty Newydd (new house) also appear in Glanwydden and both villages are in the Parish of Llangystennin. 
I'm sure that it can be traced though.
I went to Ainon Cemetery at Ffolt Glanwydden today as it isn't that far from my house and I was armed in my protective gear and had the garden loppers handy but I'm afraid that the Cemetery is worse than ever probably due to this years rainfall and it's virtually impenetrable.
I did go in but you have to clear each grave before you can get to read the headstone and I gave up after a while. What I need is the location of the grave which I hope to get when I go to the Archives next time and then I can go to it direct.  Most of the headstones are made from Welsh slate and the writing on them is very clear considering the state of the Cemetery.
I was told that it was last cleared 30 years ago and it is a disgrace.  The local Councillors have been approached but have done nothing to help.

[jom]

looks as though you'd have to know the cemetery was there in order to find it.  Looks awful.  By the way your photo of the church is a far nicer picture than the google street view

[Hugo]

If you look on the Google map for Glanwydden at the T junction where the Queens Head Restaurant is, turn right down Waun Road then first left at Ffordd Wiga and down the lane on the right before the houses is Ainon Cemetery. You'll see the metal gate and kissing gate at the entrance.

I haven't yet located Maes but it isn't Tan Y Maes in Llandudno Junction.    In the 1841 Census, the addresses from Esgyrun go along to Pydew in Bryn Pydew and I should know where Garth is because I've actually called there but I've had another senior moment!     
The order then is Twll Llwynog (Fox Hole) then Maes then Ty Cefn (Back House)
In the 1851 index they have been collected in a different direction.  Pen Y Bont is still there but I don't know the other names apart from Ty Newydd but again there are more than one Ty Newydd houses in the Parish.
I have a friend in Bryn Pydew who may know but if not the Archives should have the records and I'll visit there next week

[Cambrian]

Hugo - Maes is recorded in the Llangwstennin Enclosure Award (1848).  It seems to have been in the ownership of Thomas Peers Williams (one of the major landowners) but only consisted of 3 roods and 1 perch (just over three quarters of an acre) so I would guess it was a cottage with a garden to grow vegetables and/or keep some hens or pigs. Pentre is listed in the Llandudno Award as belonging to Edward Mostyn Lloyd Mostyn and had an area of 2 roods and 14 perches (a bit small than Maes). Interestingly there is also a Pentre Ucha listed (1 acre, 1 rood and 9 perches) which tends to support Dibble's view that there was more than one household.  This actually makes some sense given the name "Pentre".

T P Williams' land holdings seem to be between Bryn Pydew and Pensarn rather than the Glanwydden end of the parish .

When you go to the Archives, they may have a copy of the Llangwstennin Parish Enclosure Award which will have a fairly detailed map with it.  Hopefully this may identify the location of Maes. I suppose the Tithe Map would be another potential source.

Incidentally,  the Ffolt burial ground was last cleared by volunteers from the Historical Society.  It does not belong to the Council so I assume responsibility for its upkeep lies with the Trustees of the chapel.