Yre Rofft / Yre Roffl and Y Pentre Rhinleding

[Hugo]

Jom, while I was looking at different Burial Indexes I found the following and I know that they are not the Moses Jones that was Hugh's father but I thought that I'd tell you about them in case they were of any use to you.
Capel Ainon Burial Index:-
Plot A084     Elizabeth Jones
The inscription in Welsh was Elizabeth merch Moses a Maria Jones
                                           Y Bwlch, fu farw Ionawr 4 1856 yn 3 oed
The English translation being Elizabeth, daughter of Moses and Maria Jones Y Bwlch (name of house meaning the Pass) she died January 4 1856 aged 3

The St Benedict Burial Index for Gyffin had:-
Plot 070     Moses Jones
The inscription was in English and said:-
Sacred to the memory of Moses Jones late of Tai Bach Dwygyfylchi who died at Conwy June 27 1866 aged 61 years. Also Grace wife of the above named Moses Jones who died July 11th 1872 aged 68 years.

[Hugo]

Cambrian you may be right about thinking that Maes may be in the Sarn area of Llandudno Junction but I can't prove it one way or another from the O/S maps I saw today in the Archives.
In the 1841 Census Maes is between Twll Llwynog (Fox Hole) and Ty Cefn but all I know about Fox Hole is that it had a view of Conwy Castle so that could put it in the Pabo or Sarn area.
In the 1851 Census Maes is between Ffordd and Waen Fynydd.   Pen Y Bont is before Ffordd but the only one I knew was the one by the Afon Ganol.
However when I looked at the O/S map today there is a Pen Y Bont in Llandudno Junction somewhere by the Marl Drive/ Penrhos Avenue area.  If that is the Pen Y Bont in the Census then as Waen Fynydd is in the Narrow Lane area of Llandudno Junction then Maes might well be in the Sarn area.   I'm afraid that I'm none the wiser after looking at that map, but a tithe map may be better.

[jom]

Just for you info Jom,  Bryn Ifan is the building on pg1 (img 4099)  it is on the right behind the trams.  Adwy Rhydd was a little lower down that road where it forks on to Bodafon Road

Yep .. Gottcha.  Cheers Hugo

Wooow! You're amazing Hugo.  Thanks so much for ALL the efort you have put in with this search.  Wonderful pics.  Didn't really like to hope you'd unearth the grave and never truly imagined that it would be so legible but as you said before re Welsh slate ... how true.  Hope you didn't get too torn and tattered. 

I'll keep a note of those others you found in the archives and see if I come across any.  Going on to ancestry and looking at the census returns for those APPARENT family members mentioned by Ken Dibble etc.  Can't recall if I said or not but have sent for Hugh ans Sarah's death certs so will await them with interest. D)

[Cambrian]

Hugo/Jom

With a bit of dective work I may have found what could be Maes.  The road on which Waenfynydd is situated was at some stage called Bryn Derw Road (now Narrow Lane).  The 1939 street directory starting at the Seguryn end records 3 properties on the east side - Bryn Derw farm, Cae Ffynnon (still there) and Waenfynydd dairy. The west side is Jubilee House, Pendyffryn and TYN Y MAES.
In earlier directories the street is not named and is under the heading Seguryn.

So my guess - with all we know - is that Tyn y Maes was somewhere around where the roundabout is at the A470/Narrow Lane junction.

Hugo, you will know there has been a lot a housing development in this area which may mean any traces have gone but it may show up even if unnamed on older OS maps.

[Hugo]

Thanks Cambrian, that's all good stuff.  Tyn Y Maes didn't show up on the O/S map I was looking at but what you say makes sense.   Ty'n Y Maes (house in the field) is probably how the name should be spelt but names have been abbreviated over the years as we know and if the Pen Y Bont is the one in Llandudno Junction then your guess is spot on.
I was making assumptions based on the Pen Y Bont by the Afon Ganol.

[dwsi]

Waen Fynydd http://goo.gl/maps/RlLSB
Jubilee Villa/House, Pendyffryn and Tŷ'n y Maes http://goo.gl/maps/Vvg12
Cae Ffynnon http://goo.gl/maps/zFxm1
Pen y Bont http://goo.gl/maps/Aoxls

[Hugo]

Jom, I came across an enigma in the Archives that I couldn't solve and they may not be your relation but I'll post what I've found.
In the Burial records for St Peter Llanbedr Y Cennin the burial record has two graves Plots 155 and 176 for Moses and Anne Jones.
The Inscription is in Welsh on both graves with Latin numerals and on grave No155 the inscription translated is as follows:-
In memory of Anne Jones wife of Moses Jones of this Parish buried June 1st 1848 aged 76.
Also Moses Jones died May 15th 1861 aged 81.
This is the mystery, the grave No 176 is immediately behind grave 155 and has an identical inscription in Welsh and Latin except for the end bit which is:-
Also Moses Jones died  May 15th 1864 aged 87       

I haven't got an explanation and neither has the Archives so I'm just passing it over to you for your info

[Cambrian]

Hugo - was chatting to a couple of friends who are from the Seguryn area. They reckon the Maes we are after is the property now called Maes Glas, this is the first cottage on the left as you go up Narrow Lane from A470.

[Hugo]

You could be correct Cambrian because the 1851 Census lists Maes,Waen Fynydd and Bwlch Glas in that order.   I remember that old building on the left and very close to the road. It was in a mess before they knocked it down and built the modern bungalow on the site.
Was that the Waen Fynydd dairy farm?

[dwsi]

You could be correct Cambrian because the 1851 Census lists Maes,Waen Fynydd and Bwlch Glas in that order.   I remember that old building on the left and very close to the road. It was in a mess before they knocked it down and built the modern bungalow on the site.
Was that the Waen Fynydd dairy farm?

Click on the links on my previous post to see a google streetview of the properties

[jom]

Hugo/Jom

With a bit of dective work I may have found what could be Maes.  The road on which Waenfynydd is situated was at some stage called Bryn Derw Road (now Narrow Lane).  The 1939 street directory starting at the Seguryn end records 3 properties on the east side - Bryn Derw farm, Cae Ffynnon (still there) and Waenfynydd dairy. The west side is Jubilee House, Pendyffryn and TYN Y MAES.
In earlier directories the street is not named and is under the heading Seguryn.

Thought Seguryn was vaguely familiar to me and have just looked at me family tree to find that the apparent brother of Susannah (Jones) OWEN(S) previously mentioned in this string who was possibly Elias (Son of Moses and Ellinor JONES) was residing at 2 Ochor "Segurun" in 1861.  Now I appreciate I may have misread and therefore mis spelt the place, but this is the "Maes" branch so we may be getting there, thanks.  Have attched the census return purely for interest

[jom]

Thanks Hugo for all the "Moses JONES" data.  I have saved them all in a file for future reference etc.  Much appreciated

[jom]

Thanks dwsi.  have had a look Intriguing!!

[Hugo]

I was in the Archives today and think that I may have solved one mystery but created another for you.    I looked at the 1813-1901 Gyffin Baptism records and at pg 4 No 26 was this information:-
May 28th 1815   Anne  daughter of Moses and Anne Jones   DERWEN DEG  Labourer and the ceremony was performed by the Rev Owen Reynolds.
This Baptism record was completely different to the earlier one I looked at in so much that it was more detailed and there was a place for the name of the abode. Thankfully they put the name of the property down and not just the town.
This must be your proof that Moses Jones from Derwen Deg Gyffin who was buried on 7th Oct 1842 is Hugh's father and your Moses.
I don't know why but I didn't get a photo copy of this entry but if you want one then I can get one next time. You have 3 different occupations for Moses and they could all be true.  The mining aspect could relate to anywhere including Llandudno but is more likely to relate to the Lead mines up the Gyffin Valley.

The problem I've got for you is who is Richard Jones mentioned in the Census of 1841?
I've checked all the Baptism records for Gyffin and Richard is not listed there and there are no other entries in that book apart from Anne's.
Could he be a relative or adopted?
In 1847 in the Marriage registry for Gyffin there is an entry for Grace Jones the daughter of Richard Jones a Farmer of Derwen Deg (Moses had died by then)  see photo
There was no entry in the Marriage Registry at Gyffin for Moses' last known child Anne so I don't know what has happened there. 

[Hugo]

I went back to the Archives today because I think that you need to see a copy of the original Baptism record for Anne daughter of Moses and Anne Jones of Derwen Deg Gyffin.
While I was there I also had a photo copy made of the Burial Entry for Moses Jones,
It doesn't show where he was buried but it would have been in Gyffin.  I checked all the Burial Indexes for Gyffin, Conwy and the surrounding Churches and Chapels but couldn't find an entry for your Moses Jones.  The indexes show the graves with inscriptions and it could be that Moses didn't have a headstone or that it was unreadable