Cafes, Restaurants, Pubs & Takeaways

[Cat Stevens]

Has anyone been in the new London Pub yet and what changes have they made especially the prices. I'm out of the area so unable to experience my self. It was closed for a while.

[wrex]

Yes been in twice,not sure what i paid,they need a dj late on to keep people there but otherwise nice local folk.

[born2run]

a band would be even better Z**

[Fester]

Mrs Fester and I had a couple of beers in there on Monday night, as the Extravaganza was being dismantled.

We were made to feel more welcome than previously.   It still has a long way to go though, to realise the potential that it obviously has.

[Jack]

Was in Trinity Square this morning and it looks like a cafe is opening where the old Alice in Wonderland place was.

[Bosun]

This is not the kind of publicity any establishment wants, especially not a 'high-class seafood restaurant'.....

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/food-hygiene-ratings-north-wales-7097331

[Blongb]

This is not the kind of publicity any establishment wants, especially not a 'high-class seafood restaurant'

Now that legislation is involved it no longer matters how clean or dirty a premises is or how likely that place is to make you ill. Like anything else where Local or Central Governments involved, it's all about the paper trail.

Have you completed your Part I and II Hygiene courses?.
When did you last sit a HASAP course (Hazard analysis and critical control points)?
Where are your Refrigerator and Freezer temperature records?,
Where do you source the food you provide to your customers?, how is it transported to your premises? and at what temperature? physical records please.
Where are your records of how you control and rotate your stock?,
Where are your records of how you cook your food and at what temperature and for how long do you hold your cooked food?,
Show me how you keep cooked and uncooked food separate,
How do you dispose of your waist cooking oil?.
Let me see the records of you cleaning regime,
What chemicals do you use? and let me see the Health and Safety Data sheets that go with them.
Have your staff been trained as First Aiders?

This truly is the tip of the iceberg. For small one man bands and people with limited English it truly is a nightmare to comply with, which helps to explain why some of the establishments are on the list. The bottom line should be, are people being hurt or put at risk if they use these establishments and if they are, give the courts the power to impose huge fines and hefty prison sentences as appropriate.   

[Ian]

It's a tricky issue, not least because there's a lot in what you say. But legislation requires evidence, and the paper trail is an important part of that. But spot checks focussing on cleanliness and technique are an equally important aspect.

[Yorkie]

Perhaps the reason for so many bad eating places is that they spend too much time on paperwork rather than food preparation.  I can hardly see any celebrity Chef surrounding himself with tons of ledgers!   

[Bosun]

Hardly. If they knew the procedures they would therefore know about food hygiene. There are plenty of places with 5* who obviously comply which gives a customer confidence. 

I think that the ratings system to enable customers know the hygiene of a food outlet is an excellent idea.

[Ian]

Hardly. If they knew the procedures they would therefore know about food hygiene. There are plenty of places with 5* who obviously comply which gives a customer confidence. 

Hmmm.  The big problem is that once you have clearly defined criteria then staff are trained to comply with that criteria precisely, without necessarily understanding about food hygiene. It's a syndrome well understood in the NHS and Education, both of which have been the subjects of 'assessments' and targets, neither of which seem to achieve very much in real improvements.

[Bosun]

It's a rather dubious (and pompous) argument to suggest that that those in the catering industry do not understand the importance of food hygiene and rather degrading to those that comply.

There are numerous outlets that have 5*, and they should be applauded, that those that have dubious hygiene standards - caveat emptor. 

[Ian]

Who is suggesting that "those in the catering industry do not understand the importance of food hygiene:"? If you're referring to what I said:

The big problem is that once you have clearly defined criteria then staff are trained to comply with that criteria precisely, without necessarily understanding about food hygiene.

I made a distinction between understanding the importance of hygiene and understanding its implementation.  I pointed out that simply conforming to a rule does not - by any stretch of the imagination - imply comprehension of the reasoning behind that rule. Many complex and target-heavy activities are similar: people go through the motions but don't necessarily understand exactly why they do things

The rating system is far from perfect, I agree, and its execution also leaves something to be desired. The inspectors are keenly aware that their verdict on an establishment can mean the difference between a successful business or the loss of a living, so I imagine it won't be too long before we see the first cases being tested in court as the one-man business feels they've been unfairly or incompetently treated.

However,  the reputation of an entire resort can be threatened by a single rogue caterer whose blatant disregard for their customers' safety eventually manifests as a food poisoning incident, so it's not a trivial issue by any means. I think what we have at the moment is a good first step, and I imagine it'll become refined over time. But the sad fact about catering is that a lot of young folk are employed in the industry whose knowledge of temperatures, how and when to check 'fridges and freezers, food storage and even basic personal hygiene is often lacking and experience has demonstrated it's not enough to leave it to the industry itself. The paperwork, about which so many complain, is the only objective way to assess at least superficial compliance with basic regulation, although an even better step would probably be completely random spot checks.

[Nemesis]

It rather worries me that a food hygiene exam can now be taken 'on-line'. When I did mine it was rather like a school exam-- sitting at a desk with nothing to refer to--just brain power !

[Ian]

And there are a number of companies who now simply provide booklets which you complete - at your own pace - and return to them, for the award.