Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site

[wrex]

The manager of the Grand should get himsalf and a few staff in there and have some pride in the hotel.

[Nemesis]

OMG wouldn't set foot in there without something large to bash the rats with! EEEEEEK

[Blongb]

I spent from the 4th October 2004 until 17th February 2006 trying to get the rubbish dumped by the Pier and Grand Hotel cleared out from the site. It was finally done with the assistance of Betty Williams (MP Retd.) and an anonymous benefactor who provided me with a copy of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 Part VIII - special controls. Chapter II which deals with Land adversely affecting amenity of neighbourhood (read the four pages from para 215 onwards.)
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_19900008_en_12.htm
This finally forced Conwy Council to clean up the mess and back charge its cost to Mr. David Taylor of Warwickshire Property Services, 11 Castle Street Worcester WR1 3AD.
As to the speculation about what caused the fire, it's worth pointing out what the Fire Officer who was responsible for the aftermath investigation told me, there were 22 separate seats to the fires which destroyed the Pier Pavilion and in his opinion even had they been called out before the fire took hold each individual fire would have been capable of destroying the whole building. Tramps, Youths running away, NO I DON’T THINK SO. Try ARSONISTS and ask who stood to benefit from the destruction of the Pavilion.
I shouldn’t have bothered wasting my time as the Pier and the Grand are still the biggest polluters and dumpers of rubbish within the site, which is as bad today as it was back in 2004.

[Fester]

Wrex, the Manager of The Grand is not a HIMSELF, its a HERSELF.  Anna Hamblett of Britannia Hotels.

She can be contacted directly on anna.hamblett@britanniahotels.com

Don't be hopeful of any response though, she is apparently very busy being rude to elderly guests and spends a great deal of her time snuffing out ideas and improvement proposals that come her way.

All of those crates and catering / packaging waste articles can easily be traced back to The Grand.
The Pier Company, (despite its other faults) have a very meticulous waste disposal regime and are not to blame for what you see in those pictures.

The Grand Hotel itself is becoming very tired looking and progressively externally decrepit.
If I had my way, any new development on that site would sweep The Grand away, and stop treating it as a sacred cow.
Lets face it, the owners (Britannia Hotels) care very little about it.
You don't have to take a close look to see how badly maintained it now is.

The entire Pavilion/Grand site could be redeveloped into a fantastic and enormous attraction, sympathetic to the resort's Victorian heritage.  Something new,  that would draw visitors in their thousands from all around Wales and England.
But it will never happen.

[Nemesis]

An application to CCBC Environmental dept would make their officers have to go to the Grand and give them the hard word. They give a time when everything has to be cleared by.It could be worth a try before the season starts. The word 'rat' often brings a rapid response-- although in this case 'rats' might be more appropriate !

[Blongb]

All of those crates and catering / packaging waste articles can easily be traced back to The Grand.
The Pier Company, (despite its other faults) have a very meticulous waste disposal regime and are not to blame for what you see in those pictures.

You are so right Fester about the rubbish in the photograph, but you have failed to notice all the other rubbish which has been steadily growing behind the fence where the Pier Company meticulous deal with their waste disposal. I stand by what I said, BOTH the Grand Hotel and Pier Company are in the main responsible for the rubbish pollution in the Pier Pavilion Site

[Yorkie]

 More like some less than conscientious staff.   

[dwsi]

There will be aprogress update on the development of Pier Pavilion Site in the cabinet meeting on Tuesday 28^th

No 9b http://bit.ly/yDehNM

[Fester]

There will be aprogress update on the development of Pier Pavilion Site in the cabinet meeting on Tuesday 28^th

No 9b http://bit.ly/yDehNM

Should I hold my breath I wonder? 

[DaveR]

No. It's just the Cabinet considering the same reports that we talked about on here a week or two back. The developer's architect is basically ignoring all the advice being given to him by CCBC, thus there can be no progress.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, a Compulsory Purchase Order is the only way to break the deadlock.

[Blongb]

The trouble with going down the Compulsory Purchase Order route is the council would then have to find the money to rebuild the Pier Pavilion as was. So at vast expense to all local rate payers we would end up with a brand new totally redundant building. The Council can't in law just sell it on to another developer as that would amount to land theft and our Courts take a very dim view of that sort of behaviour

[DaveR]

The trouble with going down the Compulsory Purchase Order route is the council would then have to find the money to rebuild the Pier Pavilion as was. So at vast expense to all local rate payers we would end up with a brand new totally redundant building. The Council can't in law just sell it on to another developer as that would amount to land theft and our Courts take a very dim view of that sort of behaviour

That's really not the case - somebody is misleading you here!

CPOs are used on a regular basis by Councils in conjunction with developers in order to tackle problem areas. There is no requirement to rebuild whatever structure was previously on the site - that would be ludicrous! Conwy Council has just used a CPO to buy the fire damaged Market Hall complex in Colwyn Bay - this will be demolished and sold to developers for office/retail use development:

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/02/23/colwyn-bay-market-hall-plans-55243-30385251/

How is that scheme any different to the Pier Pavilion site?

"Compulsory purchases as part of property development. Sometimes, a local authority agrees to make a Compulsory Purchase Order on a property so that a development by another party - typically a property developer - can proceed. The owner of the property sells it to the local authority and the local authority then sells it to the property developer."

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1082356263&type=RESOURCES

[Nemesis]

Walked past this am. two men cutting down bushes on the perimeter-- and throwing all the branches and trimmings over the fence--- more rubbish !

[Mikethewatch]

The trouble with going down the Compulsory Purchase Order route is the council would then have to find the money to rebuild the Pier Pavilion as was. So at vast expense to all local rate payers we would end up with a brand new totally redundant building. The Council can't in law just sell it on to another developer as that would amount to land theft and our Courts take a very dim view of that sort of behaviour

That's really not the case - somebody is misleading you here!

CPOs are used on a regular basis by Councils in conjunction with developers in order to tackle problem areas. There is no requirement to rebuild whatever structure was previously on the site - that would be ludicrous! Conwy Council has just used a CPO to buy the fire damaged Market Hall complex in Colwyn Bay - this will be demolished and sold to developers for office/retail use development:

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/02/23/colwyn-bay-market-hall-plans-55243-30385251/

How is that scheme any different to the Pier Pavilion site?

"Compulsory purchases as part of property development. Sometimes, a local authority agrees to make a Compulsory Purchase Order on a property so that a development by another party - typically a property developer - can proceed. The owner of the property sells it to the local authority and the local authority then sells it to the property developer."

Might it have something to do with it being a listed building, just a thought !

[DaveR]

Might it have something to do with it being a listed building, just a thought !

It would complicate matters slightly, but it's been done before many times. By their nature, Listed Buildings often suffer problems and require a CPO to sort them out.