The 2011 Riots

[DaveR]

Parliament is being recalled on Thursday in response to rioting in England, the prime minister has said.

The government's emergency committee Cobra met on Tuesday after rioting spread across London, with violence flaring in other major cities.

"We will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and make them safe for the law-abiding," David Cameron said in Downing Street.

More than 16,000 officers will be on London streets on Wednesday, he said.

Meanwhile, Scotland Yard said a 26-year-old man shot in a car during riots in Croydon has died in hospital.

Mr Cameron said at least 450 people have been arrested so far.

He condemned what he called "sickening scenes of people looting, vandalising, thieving, robbing".

All Metropolitan Police leave has been cancelled and reinforcements called in from other forces, he said, with treble the number of police than before patrolling the streets of London on Tuesday night.

He told rioters: "You will feel the full force of the law. And if you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment."

The recall of Parliament will allow MPs to "stand together in condemnation of these crimes and to stand together in determination to rebuild these communities", he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554

[Trojan]

I read in i just now that it was thought the bullet had been fired from a starting pistol that had been modified to fire live bullets. I don't think those are police issue.... 

No, I don't think they are. Foolish thing to do too. A replica firearm is made from inferior materials and is liable to explode if live ammo is used.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82798,news-comment,news-politics,news-catch-up-london-riots-spread-to-bristol-birmingham-and-manchester-markets-plummet

[Trojan]

It amazes me how people can turn on their own communities, the very place they live in.

This woman says it all really, as she has a go at a bunch of rioters in Hackney.

*WARNNG - she uses some choice words which may not be suitable for minors*

http://youtu.be/kgwfVXSX4Fg

"Dirty thieves ya know"

[Ian]

Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.

So what about any innocents making their way across the street? D'you seriously believe that you can assume everyone will hear about the curfew?  What about the deaf?  The blind? The mentally ill? The homeless? Or should all of those be shot?

[Ian]

The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.

No, the mob are just that.  The trouble is separating the mob from the decent human beings. 

There's another point: has it occurred to any of the righteous that many of the 'mob' may well be saying "well, MPs break the law, newspapers break the law, the rich break the law;  why shouldn't we?'.  We've been surrounded for over three years with stories about how the supposed 'bulwarks of society' have broken the law, willy-nilly, and escaped - by and large - scot free.  The mob have destroyed homes - that's certainly true; but I suspect a lot of those involved are seeing a gradual and inexorable breakdown of society, led by MPs, Bankers, Stockbrokers, the Media, tycoons and all the people who are supposed to lead by example. You might want to shoot the more obvious targets, but what about the bankers who've destroyed lives?  The media proprietors? Should we shoot them? Or shod we only shoot those who threaten those with money?

It's easy to look at the more visible lawbreaking and condemn it. But the reality is that the law is being broken, massively, and yet the lawbreakers are getting away with it.

[DaveR]

Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.

So what about any innocents making their way across the street? D'you seriously believe that you can assume everyone will hear about the curfew?  What about the deaf?  The blind? The mentally ill? The homeless? Or should all of those be shot?

I suspect the burning vehicles, lines of Riot Police and yobs throwing missiles at them might alert them that something is up.. 

[Trojan]

A Gatling gun has been mentioned. The problem with a Gatling gun is it's arc of fire and collateral damage. You will have rounds flying everywhere through house and business windows, into cars, buses and the like.

Send in the Army? The Met has a very capable firearms unit in CO19.

The problem is the ethical and legal ramifications if you're going to shoot someone in the head for stealing a flat screen TV.  The problem the Police has is, containing and stopping the riot, while doing it in a legal manner.

A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?

Don't forget a lot of these rioters are children. I believe an 11 year old has been charged.

You could send in the Army, but you may well have a repeat of Derry 1972.

Suppose you could send in some Chinese tank drivers though. 

 

[Ian]

I suspect the burning vehicles, lines of Riot Police and yobs throwing missiles at them might alert them that something is up..

But you said a curfew - not only a curfew in the immediate vicinity of a riot.

But here's a thing:

The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.

The real question is whether we choose to deal with the perpetrators of a riot in the same way as they choose to deal with society.  That's the crux of it.   Do we dispense summary justice, or do we maintain that the courts and procedure have a part to play?

[Ian]

Don't forget a lot of these rioters are children. I believe an 11 year old has been charged.

Excellent point.  And therein lies the problem.

[Trojan]

At the end of the day, you are either on the side of Law & Order or the criminals.

I think you will find that some of the rioters and looters were, for the most part, law abiding citizens.

A chance came up, to run around unsupervised, with hardly a Police presence and grab items which they couldn't normally afford,

Why? BECAUSE THEY COULD.   

[norman08]

trojan  none of them were law abideing ,if they were they wouldn,t be doing that  they are just SCUM, i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream then, youth of today hard done by don,t make me laugh , my 3 sons do a decent days work

[Trojan]

trojan  none of them were law abideing ,if they were they wouldn,t be doing that  they are just SCUM, i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream then, youth of today hard done by don,t make me laugh , my 3 sons do a decent days work

Norm, what I meant is law abiding BEFORE the riots.

i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream 


Now you're talking to me Norman.....that I like! 

[Merddin Emrys]

A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?

I once had a car stolen in around 1980, back the next day minus the stereo, to this day I would be happy to shoot him,   they can't do it again then!

[Trojan]

A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?

I once had a car stolen in around 1980, back the next day minus the stereo, to this day I would be happy to shoot him,   they can't do it again then!

I see Merddyn. If I ever stroll over to Penrhyn Bay to take a look at your Triumph Spitfire parked in your driveway, remind me to ring your door bell first. 

[Trojan]

Hmmmm....in which area of Liverpool were the riots taking place?

Yes, you've guessed it.....Liverpool 8!

Nothing like a good fracas along "Upper Parly" is there?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/liverpool-riots-toxteth-residents-describe-chaos

My question is, what are 10 years old's doing (yes, rioting) out at that time of night? This is a prime example of social breakdown. Where were their parents? Joining in? Or putting their "orders"in?

"Hey youse, don't forget to come backkk with a telly and a few IPones".

Or were they down the pub, when their kids put the windows through?