The 2011 Riots

[Ian]

Hang on a minute, the Govt are cutting army numbers too!  All this was entirely predictable.

'Fraid so.

[DaveR]

What Ian doesn't want to say is he would be quite happy for the Police to use any means necessary if it was his family and home being attacked. Isn't that true, Ian?

I'm more than happy to answer your question, Dave, as soon as you've provided a  clear and unambiguous answer to the one I asked first.  There's a reason why we have Police, the courts and the Justice system; it's to deal with issues in a civilised way, rather than simply to extract revenge. You're the one who used the phrase "...by any means necessary" so I think the onus is on you to explain what you meant and not to repeatedly dodge the question, a bit like Teresa May did this morning.

Is it not self explanatory? 'By any means necessary' means just that - if it means shooting the scum, then so be it. You think they care one iota about you and your 'civilised way'? The idea that things are done in a more civilised way in Britain won't cut any ice with these people - they treat tolerance as weakness.

Now, your answer was...?  WWW

[Trojan]

Waterstone's shelves are probably still full. Stupidity is a formidable contender.

[Merddin Emrys]

just make them disappear in the night, they were on about water cannons earlier, far too soft, lead is far more effective, they are just oxygen thieves.  We've had all these years of politically correct twaddle, time to clamp down hard!

[Merddin Emrys]

Waterstone's shelves are probably still full. Stupidity is a formidable contender.

 L0L good point!

[Ian]

Now, your answer was...? 

As I said earlier, there's good reason why the courts and the justice system intervene between me and a desire for revenge, because that's what would motivate me to deal with anyone who attacked me or mine.  I remember when the kids were young that I would happily have dispatched anyone who'd assaulted them.

I've been caught up in a riot, so I know what it's like, to some extent. The sheer sense of anarchy, of utter powerlessness in the face of naked and unfettered aggression isn't an altogether comforting feeling, and most folk seek an escape by the fastest possible route. I gather that what happened the night before in London was the the locals felt as though the Police had deserted them, and that must have been a terrifying ordeal. Both Yorkie and Fester make excellent and extremely thought-provoking posts and both, I think, show that there are no easy answers to what happened. But the common thread to riots in the West appears to be a sense of disaffection on the part of those rioting; and there's no shortage of older criminals, ready and wiling to channel the unfocussed rage towards the lucrative town shops.


 

[Ian]

We've had all these years of politically correct twaddle, time to clamp down hard!

Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live. I'm not sure how "years of politically correct twaddle" have resulted in rioting, yet again, in the UK, but if you and Dave are advocating execution-style justice, then I'd be interested to know exactly how you would choose those to be shot?  Or would you simply hose them down with a Gatling or two?

I'm also a tad bemused by your suggestion, Dave, that a lot of this s down to the 'lefties'.  By that logic, presumably, left wing states will be the most liberal of all?  Perhaps a long stay in North Korea would be in order?

 WWW

[Merddin Emrys]

simply hose them down with a Gatling or two?

ideal 

[Trojan]

But the common thread to riots in the West appears to be a sense of disaffection on the part of those rioting; and there's no shortage of older criminals, ready and wiling to channel the unfocussed rage towards the lucrative town shops.

Yes, a sense of disaffection. This all brings back memories. I was living in N17 in 1985, not far from Broadwater Farm. The police raided a female's flat, she had a heart attack, which, in some of the resident's view, was caused by the Police presence.

A riot broke out and a Policeman protecting firefighters was stabbed and hacked to death with a machete.

That was 26 years ago.

It seems nothing has changed really.

[Ian]

It does seem in London, anyway, as though there's a very real hatred between the Met and those it polices.  And I wonder how much of this is down to the recent issues surrounding the Met, that might have contributed to a sense of 'wrong-footing' the Police, since they, themselves appeared under attack.  Ally that to the constant talk of cuts, and it seems there's a ready-made recipe for unrest.

[DaveR]

Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live.

The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.

Looking on Facebook and Twitter this morning, the overwhelming view is that the Army should be used and rioters should be shot if necessary. Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.

[Trojan]

Maybe it was a justified shooting that triggered ( ) the riots. Apparently, a hand gun was found at the scene and apparently a Police officer's radio was struck by a bullet.

Time will tell.

[Trojan]

Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live.

The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.

Very true Dave.

There was serious violence overnight in Hackney, Peckham and Ealing and unrest in Deptford, Camden, Kensington, Lewisham, Bethnal Green and Woolwich.

Copycat riots reported in Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham, and Liverpool.

[Trojan]

Maybe it was a justified shooting that triggered ( ) the riots. Apparently, a hand gun was found at the scene and apparently a Police officer's radio was struck by a bullet.

Time will tell.

But having said that and whilst cowering in my home reading the Guardian, I note that it reports that the bullet found apparently lodged in the Police radio may indeed be a Police round.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

[DaveR]

I read in i just now that it was thought the bullet had been fired from a starting pistol that had been modified to fire live bullets. I don't think those are police issue....