What's Llandudno Like Right Now?

[Dave]

I quite regularly see small groups of men hanging around shelters on the prom passing the time of day with a few cans or bottles. There are probably more homeless and those living in sheltered accommodation in Llandudno and surrounds than we realise.
I still don't think feeding their addiction is a good idea either.

[born2run]

  Good points people love being homeless, destitute and addicted to substances that control their lives and will sooner or later kill them. Yep and if charities start promoting this stuff in the local papers then Llandudno will be filled with thrill seekers all clambering to die in a bus shelter at Christmas.

There is a problem with homelessness, locally and nationally. You can either help fix it or ignore it, but please don't make out that by ignoring it you are actually doing something for the greater good!

[Greyhound]

I didn't say that people love being homeless or destitute or addicted to substances, so please don't infer that I did. We've all had problems and can relate to people and I am not that heartless.

Yes, there is a problem with homelessness nationally, but this is far less than the 80s for example and I don't remember there being groups of homeless individuals coming to Llandudno back then as they seem to now. I would say that the availability of support and what is seen to be offered in the town now is partly responsible for that.

This guy has been helped with accommodation and abused it (accommodation that many locals would themselves would dearly love to have). Now he has been given a second chance and I hope he sees how lucky he now is and grabs the opportunities that have now been given to him and makes something of his life for the good of himself and those around him. 

I appreciate his background might be difficult, but who knows? He says he's from South Wales, was at Bryn Estyn, was in the forces. Who knows what the truth is or what's a befuddled tale told by someone in need under the influence? One famous destitute person said she was the Grand Duchess Anastasia to anyone who would listen...

[Ian]

There is a problem with homelessness, locally and nationally. You can either help fix it or ignore it, but please don't make out that by ignoring it you are actually doing something for the greater good!

I don't really think anyone is doing that, BTR. But there are genuine concerns about what do with those who - in a way - can be seen as making themselves homeless.

Good points people love being homeless, destitute and addicted to substances that control their lives and will sooner or later kill them.

That's an interesting conundrum. In fact, people do love constant use of the substances which might eventually hasten their demise. But the human mind is capable of compartmentalisation to an astonishing degree. Objective information about the possible side-effects of raw turps, for instance, is often regarded by a different part of the brain, so that use and effect are often separated.

Yep and if charities start promoting this stuff in the local papers then Llandudno will be filled with thrill seekers all clambering to die in a bus shelter at Christmas.

If you read the original article about this chap, you'll see that he was provided with good accommodation which had to be removed from him for that very reason. Once he'd invited a 'few friends from the streets' to his flat they 'wouldn't leave (him) alone' so he was evicted. Greyhound makes a salient point: word spreads rapidly amongst street communities.

Some time ago Ch 4 ran a fascinating documentary about an Oxford graduate who was bi-polar. The effect of his condition was to make it impossible for him to hold down a job, organise any aspect of his life sufficiently and he ended up homeless and died comparatively young.  Extremely sad, yet with the swingeing cuts being made to all aspects of social care and Health services I would ask what more society can really do.

[Fester]

Not in My Back Yard....... that's all I'm saying. 


Looks like I'm not going to get my hands on that radio after all. 

[born2run]

Not in My Back Yard....... that's all I'm saying. 


Looks like I'm not going to get my hands on that radio after all. 

Fester has just said exactly what greyhound said but completely honestly and without making up rubbish like 'If you help one of them, they will all flock here and cause a problem"
Greyhound's 'salient' point about word spreading doesn't solve anything, quite the opposite. It says lets keep our good deeds quiet so that we don't have to do too much of them. It's ridiculous.

[Greyhound]

born2run, you seem intent on making up what I said and putting words in my mouth for your own effect and I cannot be bothered getting into an argument about it with you as you just seem to use people's words and twist them. I think that if you have to create arguments, it means you don't really have any points of argument yourself.

[born2run]

"I can imagine that if word gets around in the homeless community that there is a charity in Llandudno, who'll look after them, that they'll get free accommodation and support, that the local paper will run stories about them and that even if they 'fall off the wagon' they'll still be helped, then we could see a formerly non-existent 'problem' escalate into something else. "

Your words greyhound. Clear for everyone to see. You ARE saying, quite clearly that if some homeless people get help, they will all come here and cause problems.

[Fester]

I have no problem with homeless people, and I am as charitable as the 'Next Man'.

Just as long as the 'Next Man' is called Ebenezer Scrooge.

[Ian]

You ARE saying, quite clearly that if some homeless people get help, they will all come here and cause problems.

No, he isn't.  B2R, you are wonderful at drawing inferences and presenting them as reality.  However, what he said was - as you point out - clear, so please read it again. "Then we could see" does not equate to "They will".

I'm also a little concerned that you're treading a fine line. Please don't describe peoples' contributions here as 'Rubbish', because that contravenes our Ts and Cs.

[born2run]

You ARE saying, quite clearly that if some homeless people get help, they will all come here and cause problems.

No, he isn't.  B2R, you are wonderful at drawing inferences and presenting them as reality.  However, what he said was - as you point out - clear, so please read it again. "Then we could see" does not equate to "They will".

I'm also a little concerned that you're treading a fine line. Please don't describe peoples' contributions here as 'Rubbish', because that contravenes our Ts and Cs.

If you think I'm 'treading a fine line' ban me. Because I won't leave, unlike so many others with something to contribute who you and the formum clique have driven away.
I will politely decline your request that I don't call other people's 'contributions' rubbish. Because if I think something is rubbish I will say so.
equally if someone thinks that something I have said is rubbish then I expect them to say so as well, and indeed they have done on numerous occasions, want me to dig up those posts? I didn't see you wielding the axe then or warning those people at the time. What exactly are these Ts and Cs you speak of?

[Greyhound]

born2run, I don't care about you challenging arguments, but I object to you inferring I said things that I didn't to bolster your own statements, such as this:

"Good points people love being homeless, destitute and addicted to substances that control their lives and will sooner or later kill them. Yep and if charities start promoting this stuff in the local papers then Llandudno will be filled with thrill seekers all clambering to die in a bus shelter at Christmas.

There is a problem with homelessness, locally and nationally. You can either help fix it or ignore it, but please don't make out that by ignoring it you are actually doing something for the greater good!"

I did not say people love being homeless and I didn't say the following:

"You ARE saying, quite clearly that if some homeless people get help, they will all come here and cause problems."

What I said was that word gets about and that problems, which previously were small or non-existent, can escalate due to that. The meaning is far different. You twist my words for your own ends and to that I object.

[born2run]

What I said was that word gets about and that problems, which previously were small or non-existent, can escalate due to that. The meaning is far different. You twist my words for your own ends and to that I object.

No I don't and I didn't, but  it's fair you feel aggrieved if you think I did. I merely projected the impact that your words had on me personally.
When I said "people love being homeless, destitute and addicted to substances that control their lives and will sooner or later kill them" I was referring to your comment of "a formerly non-existent 'problem'  I'm afraid whether you choose to see it or not it is a problem. It's certainly a problem for the poor man living in a cave, I'd like to put you in a cave for a week and see if you think it's a 'problem' or not then?

As for your second point. You are back tracking your whole statement and sentiment over the difference between the words "could" and "will". You said it, and that would imply that you think it is will happen or is likely to happen. Otherwise you wouldn't have said it would you? I'm telling you, whether it would happen or not, and I think it unlikely, that  the man should still be helped anyway.

That's my opinion and it's clearly different to yours. But I would have more respect for you if you stuck to your statements than try to weasel out of them.

[Merddin Emrys]

Amazing how some pointless bloke leading such a pointless existence in a cave can cause such discussions!  B2R why does it bother you so much, it never has me!

[Greyhound]

born2run - you know what, as I read up to the last sentence of what you just wrote I thought: 'yeah, let's just agree to disagree', which I am more than happy to do - we all have differences of opinion. But then your last sentence was thus: 'But I would have more respect for you if you stuck to your statements than try to weasel out of them.' And you know what, I object to that and I feel pressed to say so. I don't try and 'weasel' out of anything and haven't made any personal attack on anything you've said or on you personally, but you have. Maybe that's the difference between us, and we'll never rectify that by going back and forth on here. So let's just leave it and go back to talking about 'What Llandudno's like right now' for the benefit of people who come on here to read and discuss exactly that.