Author Topic: Points to Ponder  (Read 387953 times)

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Offline 1_rob_1

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #270 on: July 14, 2014, 01:07:50 pm »
Llandudno does not really need  new budget hotels, there are enough good hotels in the area which at times struggle for custom. Another 140-ish rooms in this small area could be the death knell for some of them.

What's needed are more indoor activities etc. for children/youths. That could make it into more of a family resort.
Holidaymakers with children aren't really attracted to Llandudno because if it rains - like it invariably does - there is absolutely nothing to entertain the youngsters apart from the amusement hall at the pier entrance. Its a shame the old pavilion site cannot be developed for something along these lines (NOT ANOTHER HOTEL) - think of the scope of a site like that - 3 floors including basement. It could house all types of entertainment right in the heart of one of the busiest areas of town. (compulsory purchase order maybe)?
 
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Llandudno does not have an image of anything other than a dreary resort for the very elderly and decrepit

The old folk are ok with the rain, they will just sit & drink coffee in one of the many many cafes/bars  around town, or lounge around in their hotels for the day & are quite happy doing this.
Thats why it has this image.

LLandudno (Conwy) council need to take an active role in the future of the town & listen to ideas from the residents/visitors. They then should stick their necks out & act upon the sensible ones to make real changes - instead of doing very little half heartedly.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #271 on: July 14, 2014, 01:22:46 pm »
Its a shame the old pavilion site cannot be developed for something along these lines (NOT ANOTHER HOTEL) - think of the scope of a site like that - 3 floors including basement. It could house all types of entertainment right in the heart of one of the busiest areas of town. (compulsory purchase order maybe)?
Music to our ears, mate.  $good$


Offline born2run

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #272 on: July 14, 2014, 01:35:15 pm »
Llandudno does not have an image of anything other than a dreary resort for the very elderly and decrepit and I can't see it changing any time soon.
Perhaps we could invent an unbelievably tenuous link with a victorian children's book and spend many thousands of pounds trying to entice people to visit the town using that? Oh wait...

 _))* That will DEFINITELY work!!

Offline born2run

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #273 on: July 14, 2014, 01:39:15 pm »
Llandudno does not really need  new budget hotels...

LLandudno (Conwy) council need to take an active role in the future of the town & listen to ideas from the residents/visitors. They then should stick their necks out & act upon the sensible ones to make real changes - instead of doing very little half heartedly.

Agree pretty much completely, definitely more family stuff. I was in Southport on the weekend, unfortunately it was the weekend of the Orange parade! But despite that it seems a very good resort and LOADS to do for families. I went to pleasure-land, Laser Quest, Nandos, massive arcade complex and a boating lake all in the short time I was there.
Llandudno has a superbowl about to close and Bonkerz fun house (cash house)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 02:33:08 pm by Ian »

Offline Ian

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #274 on: July 14, 2014, 02:34:21 pm »
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The old folk are ok with the rain, they will just sit & drink coffee in one of the many many cafes/bars  around town, or lounge around in their hotels for the day & are quite happy doing this.

Care to define whom you mean by  "The old folk"?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #275 on: July 14, 2014, 02:41:27 pm »
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Holidaymakers with children aren't really attracted to Llandudno because if it rains - like it invariably does - there is absolutely nothing to entertain the youngsters apart from the amusement hall at the pier entrance

You are aware Llandudno enjoys the lowest rainfall in Wales and possibly the UK?  And I'm curious you feel that there's nothing to 'entertain the youngsters' when it rains.  What, precisely, would you want? I know an indoor virtual theme park is an ideal solution, but being realistic, what would work in Llandudno? The proposed theme park proposed for  Bodafon was defeated by the local nimbys, and most likely would be again.

Of course, developing empty buildings into indoor entertainment venues for families with kids would be ideal, but that requires private investment. Not a whole lot the councils can do about that.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline llewelyn

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #276 on: July 14, 2014, 03:04:39 pm »
My main Concern is the closure of existing small hotels and B&B's will lead to more bedsits for the long term unemployed, The flats at Bodhyfryd Road are becoming a problem, we dont need anymore   :'(

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #277 on: July 14, 2014, 05:51:57 pm »
Llandudno does not have an image of anything other than a dreary resort for the very elderly and decrepit and I can't see it changing any time soon.
Perhaps we could invent an unbelievably tenuous link with a victorian children's book and spend many thousands of pounds trying to entice people to visit the town using that? Oh wait...

 :o :o :o  ooooo Dave I don't know what you mean ! :roll: :-X
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #278 on: July 14, 2014, 06:09:23 pm »
White Rabbit will enlighten you!     :D
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Fester

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #279 on: July 14, 2014, 09:37:07 pm »
Ian, please don't snuff out this healthy debate by insisting on some kind of spurious political correctness.

1-Rob-1 is only saying what everyone is thinking, even if you don't like the way he expresses it.

I will put it a different way,   there is b****r ALL for people to do when it rains, (and no it doesn't rain too much) but when it does, it's coin-pushers in the arcade,  or crammed around tables in Wetherspoons.

The Pavilion site is a terrible waste of prime space, and in any other (commercial) town it would have been seized and developed many years ago.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #280 on: July 14, 2014, 09:45:34 pm »
I agree entirely when you say "The Pavilion site is a terrible waste of prime space, and in any other (commercial) town it would have been seized and developed many years ago.".  But I don't agree that this is "spurious political correctness" in any way.  Healthy debate has nothing to do with insulting visitors to Llandudno and calling them "very elderly and decrepit" or by making snide generalisations about 'old folk' which group, incidentally, has not yet been defined by the poster.

Let's not also forget that the older generations are keeping the hotels running in the off season and finally, that what you call "political correctness" can also be viewed as simple courtesy.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline 1_rob_1

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #281 on: July 14, 2014, 10:19:33 pm »
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Of course, developing empty buildings into indoor entertainment venues for families with kids would be ideal, but that requires private investment. Not a whole lot the councils can do about that.

If family entertainment centres/ theme parks etc are being blocked by nimbys, then it is not worth the time, effort & cost for private investors to even think about developing anything along these lines in Llandudno, they will invest in other towns where they will have the full support of the councils & residents.
Lets be negative then - Llandudno has no future because the councils support the nimbys, & can/will not make logical decisions on their own.
The council could make it easier for private investors to get planning permission if it is for the greater benefit of the town, even if they do face some objections. Have they no power, or can they not be bothered. 

As I said earlier, the key site is the old pavilion - ideal for numerous uses. the 'out of town' bowling alley is closing - maybe incorporate a smaller one within the plans - maybe something like laserquest. The suggestions could be endless.
The council needs to be firm with proposals for the site & force the current owner to sell if it is not developed within a reasonable time scale.

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And I'm curious you feel that there's nothing to 'entertain the youngsters' when it rains.

What entertainment is there??

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The old folk are ok with the rain, they will just sit & drink coffee in one of the many many cafes/bars  around town, or lounge around in their hotels for the day & are quite happy doing this.

Nothing offensive or ageist intended, but for anyone who has an ageist chip on their shoulder I apologise,  It may sound subjective, but I am just going off personal observations made on rainy days whilst walking around town wearing waterproofs & using an umbrella (when its not too windy).

Llandudno may or may not have slightly less rainfall than most uk places. But it still rains quite often. I have witnessed this on numerous occasions.

Offline Fester

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #282 on: July 14, 2014, 11:53:54 pm »
I'll define old folk as over 65's,   why not?  It's not an insult.
After all,  if you think that 65 is 'middle aged,  then how many people do you know who are 130 years old?


For Born to Run's benefit, I will also define 'undesirables'
Undesirables are those who most civilised people would give a wide berth to. 
Anti Social individuals, those who show little respect for themselves or others.
Undesirable people are a growing number of people who pervade society as I get older, and are characterised by being people that I don't want to be around.  Therefore being 'undesirable' is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, in many circles I would imagine that I am an undesirable.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #283 on: July 15, 2014, 07:25:39 am »
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Lets be negative then - Llandudno has no future because the councils support the nimbys, & can/will not make logical decisions on their own.

Actually, the Councils supported the idea of the park.  It was the UK appointed planning inspectorate that turned it down.

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As I said earlier, the key site is the old pavilion.

I wonder why none of us had identified that before?

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The council needs to be firm with proposals for the site & force the current owner to sell if it is not developed within a reasonable time scale.

D’you know we’d never realised it was that easy.

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Nothing offensive or ageist intended, but for anyone who has an ageist chip on their shoulder I apologise,


“An Ageist chip”.  So anyone who notes that the resort is heavily dependent on - say, retired folk and considers stereotypical images of them, sitting “lounging around in their hotels for the day” just might possibly be considered offensive does so because they have ‘an ageist chip’ on their shoulder? It couldn’t possibly be something else, could it? Say, awareness that this is an open forum, that many retired folk looking to come here and spend their money in the town could well visit this forum to see what the locals are saying about the visitors or - to put it more plainly - dislikes people foisting their derogatory and undesirable opinions on the rest of us?

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It may sound subjective, but I am just going off personal observations made on rainy days


Really? Must have incredible eyesight if you can see so many retired people “lounging around in their hotels for the day.” Surely you can’t be drawing that conclusion based purely on the numbers of folk in coffee bars when it’s raining, can you?

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Llandudno may or may not have slightly less rainfall than most uk places. But it still rains quite often.

As with the rest of your largely uninformed ‘observations’, let me give you the facts: Llandudno receives some of the lowest rainfall in the UK, along with the East of the UK, parts of Scotland and the Cheshire Plain. It does, however, receive the second highest number of sunshine hours annually (can’t do that if it’s raining all the time) and enjoys a climate lacking in extremes of temperature (source: met office.gov.uk). The weather in North Wales is heavily influenced by the proximity of Snowdonia, the very proximity that ensures a relatively kind climate. Rainfall - at its lowest here - increases substantially just 10 miles down the Conwy Valley.

Let me add one more thing: this forum is to debate everything about Llandudno including the major eyesore which is the PP site. It is not, however, a place where generalisations which can be seen as offensive to any sector of the population will be allowed. 

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

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Re: Points to Ponder
« Reply #284 on: July 15, 2014, 07:32:12 am »
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I'll define old folk as over 65's,   why not?  It's not an insult.

The word 'old' is one of the most subjective and emotive terms around, interestingly. The current visitor patterns to Llandudno are heavily weighted towards the 55+ scale, which only confirms what we all know about the town as a visitor destination. And you're right, F;  it's not an insult.  It's simply not objectively established what groups can be seen as 'old'. That's partly because illness and disability play a significant role in determining how a person is viewed.

My objection, which I suspect must be shared by quite a few others on here, is when an entire cohort of people are classed as a single group. Perhaps the telling factor is that one of the best activities for all the family in the town is run by one of our oldest members.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.