Points to Ponder

[Nemesis]

I'm not sure where to begin here-- perhaps because I am one of what is classed as the 'old folk' my opinions may not be valid.  BUT  I still hold down full time employment, give my time to other people and try to be as active as I am able.

The hotel chains shouldn't worry anyone in the B&B trade who has regular, loyal customers. Yes they are fine for an impersonal bed for the night--also for what we seem to be terming as 'undesirables' i.e. those who book a bed for one night, go out late, come in in the early hours, drunk, disturb everyone else, throw up all over and have some inability to aim for a toilet. Don't worry, we have all been there and had the resultant mess to deal with after the occupants have eventually vacated the room. One learns by one's mistakes.

As for anything to do with Conwy CBC, don't even go there.

[born2run]

Llandudno clearly has a very large proportion of old age folks coming to visit. I don't understand the furore, about pointing out something so obvious.
Even Bill Bryson makes a point of it in notes from a small island

"The air was still and sharp and there wasn't a soul about, though there were still lots of white heads in the hotel lounges and dining rooms, all bobbing merrily about. Perhaps they were having a Parkinson's convention."

[Bosun]

Ian gives an excellent and proportionate view of the Llandudno climate, and I would respectfully add an observation or two of my own; I have never had my car broken into by an OAP or been burgled by a Senior Citizen. I have never been mugged in the street by an over 65 desperate for money for drugs. Nor I have never had to avoid a gang of pensioners being sick on the pavement after having been thrown out of licenced premises.

There's plenty of things for people to do in Ryhl......

Llandudno is, overall, a decent place. Certainly not perfect but a damn sight better than most. And, because we care, it will get better.

[Fester]

So many valid points are getting lost, (or deliberately de-railed??) by this obsession with correctness, semantics and the spurious accuracy seemingly required before being allowed to pass an opinion on this Forum.

Who cares what the PRECISE rainfall figures are in Llandudno compared to other towns?  Because the original point still holds true.... which is, there is LITTLE or NOTHING to do when it DOES rain.

I have never (knowingly) been attacked or mugged by an OAP either,  but what has that to do with undesirables?

All in all, Llandudno is a FANTASTIC town and a great place to live.  I would not wish to live anywhere else.
BUT... it is not wrong to point out things that could be improved, is it?

[wrex]

Fester is spot on,i don;t enjoy moaning it just upsets me to see the County let Llandudno slip.Facts are CCBC are spending all monies on Colwyn projets,great for the bay not Llandudno,CCBC have cut their parks dept staff,fact.As for indoor facilities it will only come from CCBC pushing for it,not a lot of large companies ever give Llandudno a second thought because of the population,just take a look at Liverpool,2 million residents,the whole of N Wales less than 1 million where would you set up,it needs CCBC to bring large firms into the area just to see what we have here,i know of one instance,a popular jewellry firm approach by a local buissness man and we where not even on their radar but he takes them on they are delighted.,enought said.         

[Ian]

So many valid points are getting lost, (or deliberately de-railed??)

Deliberately? Not suggesting a conspiracy, F?

by this obsession with correctness, semantics and the spurious accuracy seemingly required before being allowed to pass an opinion on this Forum.

I’m not actually sure you can have false accuracy.  Bit of an oxymoron, that, Fester.  But let’s explore this a bit further.

If you mean the much savaged Political correctness, I wonder if you’ve really thought it through? Do you believe it’s okay to paint images of groups in derogatory ways? And, if so, what groups would you be happy to see pilloried? Religious? Black? Gender-oriented? You were actually correct earlier, when you weren’t quite so...energised. It wasn’t what was said, so much as how it was being said. Generalised descriptions of groups by age as ‘elderly and decrepit’ is an example.  The first adjective is fine, but the second is - to put it middy - highly offensive. Would you greet a customer by telling them they don’t look quite so decrepit this morning? I rather doubt it.

No one’s expecting anything other than we treat people with respect. And that includes references to the groups most responsible for keeping Llandudno going when the kids are still in school. I don’t think that’s being unreasonable.

Who cares what the PRECISE rainfall figures are in Llandudno compared to other towns?  Because the original point still holds true.... which is, there is LITTLE or NOTHING to do when it DOES rain.

Well the problem is that when grossly uninformed or misleading things are being said in public that could easily have a seriously detrimental effect on the tourist industry then I believe they have to be corrected. And when statements such as “if it rains - like it invariably does” are made I also believe  those reading them should know the true state of affairs. It does not ‘invariably’ rain.  And we all know there’s little or nothing to do on those infrequent occasions when it rains. It’s been said before. Many, many times.

BUT... it is not wrong to point out things that could be improved, is it?

Of course it isn’t.  That’s one main purpose of this forum. I’d only say two things: the same things are being said over and over again.  The pier pavilion site is a prime example; it’s been done to death with every conceivable suggestion as to its future being made. And what difference has it ever made? Unless and until those responsible for decisions in CCBC engage with us on the forum or engage with the electorate then it’s unlikely things will change.

But lastly, it’s essential people and groups of people are treated with respect. If points can’t be made without resorting to invective or abuse, then they shouldn’t be made.

[born2run]

I would like to see more stuff for families. I have taken my kids recently to Mike's Golf course which they loved  Bonkerz fun house which is a rip off  and the up the summit which is a meagre park and a load of rip off tourist tat shops. On one stretch of promenade in Southport last week I found Pleasureland (massive fun fair with an indoor complex having a magic show and singers) miniature railway, Boating lake, Laser quest and bowling, a massive arcade complex, another complex with some kind of karaoke style competition going on outside and these were all surprisingly reasonably priced.

[Greyhound]

But Southport is also a bit of a dump and in no way as attractive as Llandudno (apart from the centre of Lord Street). The promenade is run down, the hotels are generally poor quality, and it has a crappy retail park between the hotels and the sea, the beach is permanently miles from the seafront and the pier is a mile-long jetty with not much on it.

Llandudno might not have as many attractions in terms of amusements and leisure, but it's far more attractive and less rough than Southport.  I don't want to sound as though I dislike Southport itself, but I am pointing out that every town has it's downsides and Southport is no seaside resort paragon compared to Llandudno.

[born2run]

Exactly. It seems aesthetically Southport is not as pleasing but commercially it's doing far better than Llandudno with less resources. This town needs to pull it's finger out.
Llandudno might be nicer to look at, but I can tell you now Southport is a lot more fun, and that's what kids care about. 

[DaveR]

We stayed in Southport last year and I agree with Greyhound really. Lord Street is great, but the whole Prom area feels a bit odd, bit of a vast space compared to the compactness of Llandudno. As for hotels, I like a bit of 'faded elegance', but the Prince of Wales seemed to be taking the concept a little far  It's a Britannia Hotel, though, so not a surprise.The Pier is very long, with not much at the end! I enjoyed Southport but (range of attractions not withstanding) it's really not a patch on Llandudno.

I do agree with B2R that Llandudno needs a lot more reasonably priced family attractions. The Pier Pavilion site could incorporate several all-weather family attractions that would transform the town's appeal for families.

[FatAndy]

Facts are CCBC are spending all monies on Colwyn projets,great for the bay not Llandudno,

CCBC aren't spending all their monies on Colwyn projects, most of the money they are spending is other people's money which has been specifically earmarked for those projects such as the £5m grant from the Welsh Government for the flood defence work.  It's also worth pointing out to Llandudnoites that the reason that the Colwyn flood defence is given such high priority is the proximity of both the railway line and the A55 to coast.  It wouldn't exactly be good news for Llandudno, or anywhere else West of Colwyn Bay, if CCBC and WG sat back and allowed the two main arterial routes into North West Wales to sink beneath the waves (remember Dawlish).  I realise that some people in Llandudno are feeling a bit jealous having previously being spoilt by CCBC past habits of throwing all it's eggs into Llandudno's basket but sometimes you need to look beyond the petty jealousy and look at the big picture instead.  Personally I thinks it's great news that CCBC are now spreading the money around but they could be doing more elsewhere - Towyn for example seems to get SFA despite bringing thousands of tourists into the county.

[Ian]

I can tell you now Southport is a lot more fun, and that's what kids care about. 

But not what attracts people year-round, I suppose. The child market is also very well catered for, with places like Alton Towers, Disneyland Paris, Centre Parcs and so on, so it almost seems like a strategy for Llandudno to play to its strengths. Not everyone enjoys resorts that cater to children and teenagers and I suspect that might be uppermost in the minds of those who influence the planners. 

Having just read FA's post he makes some very good points.

[DaveR]

I realise that some people in Llandudno are feeling a bit jealous having previously being spoilt by CCBC past habits of throwing all it's eggs into Llandudno's basket but sometimes you need to look beyond the petty jealousy and look at the big picture instead.

i don't think that's factually correct - can you detail all the big projects that CCBC have spent money on in Llandudno? I can think of the HLF grant to redevelop the parks back in 2000 (£1.6m) and the Swimming Pool in 2008 (£5m), plus the Railway Station (£5.1m) . As I detailed in a previous post, Colwyn Bay has received 10x times more money in the last couple of years alone.

[wrex]

Fact im talking about Andy if you think im jealous fine,ive enjoyed the rugby in Eirias park,i will be watching Tom in aweek,as for the skip ,complete waste of money,mine and yours.

[born2run]

Colwyn Bay is still somewhat of a Ghost town, if I was a tourist walking around it on a Sunday for example, I would wonder what kind of germ warfare had broken out to keep everyone off the streets! Same with the pubs (what's left of them) Erias park though is brilliant, if only Llandudno had something anywhere near as good (Craig y don park btw isn't)