Author Topic: The Great British Weather Debate  (Read 208761 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #210 on: April 17, 2013, 10:06:16 pm »
Have a look at this website for live weather updates on a map http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/
I see it's currently reporting gusts of 64km/hour at Conwy Marina.

Offline DaveR

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #211 on: April 18, 2013, 10:47:33 am »
"A spokeswoman for Conwy Council said: "It was a busy night, with reports of trees and large branches down at a number of locations across the county borough. The strong winds also brought down advertising hoardings, a lamp column (Tir Llwyd) and a bus shelter (Abergele).The Cefn Berain to Henllan Road is currently closed, due to a fallen tree. Electricity lines are also down in the area, which has been reported to Scottish Power Manweb."


Offline dwsi

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #212 on: April 18, 2013, 03:26:54 pm »
There was also reports of a well known local photographer being blown off the Great Orme while he was taking photos of West Shore
 ;D

Offline DaveR

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #213 on: April 18, 2013, 06:39:34 pm »
There was also reports of a well known local photographer being blown off the Great Orme while he was taking photos of West Shore
 ;D
Funnily enough,l nearly was! I was on Invalids Walk, standing on that outcrop of rock above the Hospice trying for a pic of the Estuary when a gust nearly took me off my feet.  :o

Offline Fester

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #214 on: May 19, 2013, 09:45:54 pm »
Now it seems that since 1998 there has been a STANDSTILL in the warming of the worlds climate.

That is obviously great news, but it seems inconsistent with the scare stories that we have been bombarded with for the last decade or so!

See here...  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22567023
Fester...
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Offline Ian

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #215 on: May 20, 2013, 07:42:09 am »
Not really. Most of the 'scare stories' emerge from poor reporting in tabloids where only the most extreme examples of warming are illustrated and science - particularly fluid dynamics - just doesn't work like that.

Many years ago it was noted that the atmospheric carbon dioxide content was rising, and  that continues just as predicted. And the use of the term 'standstill' isn't accurate, either; it's simply that the warming trend has not increased as fast as some were concerned it might. In that sense the article also contradicts itself, the headline splash talking about a 'standstill' and then, a couple of paragraphs down, saying:

"The slowdown in the expected rate of global warming has been studied for several years now".

It's either a slowdown or a standstill;  not sure they can have it both ways.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

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Offline Fester

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #216 on: May 20, 2013, 08:28:11 pm »
I read an article on the web today on this subject.  I couldn't post the link to here because I was reading it my iphone at the time, it was on an unrelated forum.

But the thrust of the article was interesting, as it concluded that if the 3 hot-spot weather stations on Earth are taken out of the equation, (because they are in volatile areas such as deserts or unreliable data gathering locations) .... then there has actually been a slight COOLING of the Earth's average temperatures over the last decade.

All this is somewhat contradictory to the Al Gore type shock-documentaries we have seen over that time.

Its not just tabloids either, because the BBC and ITN news channels have run many articles and features about this impending doom scenario many times.

I wonder what the overall scientific conclusions will really show?  We are after all dealing with the future of our planet, and restricting our economic prosperity because of this issue, so its pretty important stuff!
Fester...
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Offline Ian

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #217 on: May 21, 2013, 07:51:52 am »
There's a lot in what you say, and I agree that the media - including some TV documentaries - haven't really helped understanding of the situation.  But weather and atmosphere are among the most complex subjects of the physical sciences, if only because - as yet - we don't possess the mathematical models necessary to really comprehend what's happening.

What we do know is that CO2 levels have been rising inexorably for thousands of years, and that most of the rise has taken place in the last 200. We also know that - as carbon dioxide becomes a greater part of the atmospheric mix, more heat will be retained by the atmosphere, and that heat will eventually change the nature of our environment.

However, it's also known that there are more factors influencing our climate than just CO2 levels, the most significant of which is the Sun. Sunspots have an 11 year cycle, but the last cycle went low in 2006 and hasn't recovered.  We know the last time there was that level for an extended period was during the Mini-Ice age, which started on about 1650 and lasted until the early 19th century.

But it doesn't stop there; the Earth's orbit is complex, and we swing around the sun coming to within 91m miles during mid-winter, and 93 million in mid-summer, while there are also long-term changes in orbits, which mean that we're actually moving away from the sun at the moment and - this might be the most interesting  - under normal circumstances in the past, the trajectory we're on has led to an ice age.

All this means that being sure about the consequences of the extra CO2 we're putting into the atmosphere is a tough call and is affected by so many other factors, many of which we don't pretend to understand, that accurate short-term predications are really impossible.  What the responsible climatologists are saying, however, is that does that mean we should ignore what we know we're doing to the atmosphere?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #218 on: May 21, 2013, 08:33:43 am »
Or in other words "we're all doomed! "  :o
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Offline Ian

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #219 on: May 21, 2013, 10:48:28 am »
Probably... Z@@
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline mull

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #220 on: May 21, 2013, 11:06:57 am »
Has anyone come up with figures showing the amount of CO2 that was created in the Victorian age.
Just think about how much coal was being burnt at that time,factories,mills ,steam trains ,shipping etc. 
The amount of CO2 created from burning coal today in Europe must be a fraction of what it was then. That being so what is generating all this CO2, is it all a load of hot air designed to increase our energy bills.
We have enough coal under the ground in Britain to last for hundreds of years.
The green movement is costing us all dear. It is doubtfull the windfarm subsidies will be refunded  before they are obsolete in 50 years time. By that time the companies involved will have trousered the money, and moved on, leaving the next generation to clear up the mess.

Offline Ian

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #221 on: May 21, 2013, 11:22:14 am »
CO2 ppm are worked out through fossil records and, in more recent times, through examination of trees, so we know with some accuracy how much was being produced. 

Quote
The amount of CO2 created from burning coal today in Europe must be a fraction of what it was then. That being so what is generating all this CO2, is it all a load of hot air designed to increase our energy bills.

You're right, but the rapidly developing economies of both China and India are more than compensating.  Additionally, the rise in vehicle emissions has introduced a lot more.  Cows also produce a lot, of course  ;D
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline born2run

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #222 on: May 21, 2013, 12:37:13 pm »
Has anyone come up with figures showing the amount of CO2 that was created in the Victorian age.
Just think about how much coal was being burnt at that time,factories,mills ,steam trains ,shipping etc. 
The amount of CO2 created from burning coal today in Europe must be a fraction of what it was then. That being so what is generating all this CO2, is it all a load of hot air designed to increase our energy bills.
We have enough coal under the ground in Britain to last for hundreds of years. The green movement is costing us all dear. It is doubtfull the windfarm subsidies will be refunded  before they are obsolete in 50 years time. By that time the companies involved will have trousered the money, and moved on, leaving the next generation to clear up the mess.

No we don't  :o

Even if we COULD get it all (which we can't!) We are only talking 200 trillion cubic feet
at the moment we go through about 3tcf a year - Reading the latest IOD report, it's expected we will be able to recover less than around 15% of our total reserves. Your figure of hundreds of years could only possibly be 15-20 years at most

Offline Fester

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #223 on: May 22, 2013, 12:32:27 am »
One of the biggest factors at work here is that we are pumping CO2 int the atmosphere, but also destroying the forests which create the oxygen to compensate for this.

So its a bit like smoking more, but removing a lung too.  A worrying scenario.

I remember being about 9 years old at school, and a teacher was telling us about the relative percentages of Oxygen, to CO2 and Nitrogen in our air.
I asked whether the percentages would change as the Earth's population increased, and could we have less oxygen and end up like flies in a bottle?
The teacher told me not to be so stupid, it could never change, and I would get a clout if I asked such stupid questions in future.   :-X
Fester...
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Offline Ian

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Re: The Great British Weather Debate
« Reply #224 on: May 22, 2013, 08:15:58 am »
Quote
One of the biggest factors at work here is that we are pumping CO2 int the atmosphere, but also destroying the forests which create the oxygen to compensate for this.

Indeed, which is why you can now Buy your own piece of Rainforest through a scheme in which the land is eventually returned to the indigenous peoples. 

Quote
I asked whether the percentages would change as the Earth's population increased, and could we have less oxygen and end up like flies in a bottle?
The teacher told me not to be so stupid, it could never change, and I would get a clout if I asked such stupid questions in future.

Primary school teachers have a lot to answer for. At roughly the same age, I remember trying to explain why the world wasn't perfectly spherical (she used the word 'round'). My father had told me the world bulged at the equator and was flattened at the poles but she snapped that that was nonsense. Funny how you remember that sort of put-down - especially when it was from ignorance...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.