Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy

[anneelaine]

The photo are with some of my dads bits in a case with  100's off photo and slides in the attic
  I well try and find them this week
 My Aunt said the house she went to is still there  but she gets mixed up that was 2 weeks ago
Anneelaine

[Hugo]

Your Aunt may well be correct and the Park Hotel may be just a coincidence and the white house is somewhere else.   When you said that one family of Rogerson lived at the top and one at the bottom, my initial thought was that the top one lived in Bryn Pydew which is a small village at the top of a hill above where Pen Sarn Farm was.
But as yet we haven't established where exactly the top Rogerson family lived
At one time Bryn Pydew did have a shop, pub and a number of large white houses nearby but I don't know when the shop and pub closed.   There were two pubs there, the Red Lion which was run as a pub in the 19th Century and the old Swan but I don't know when that ceased as a pub, before becoming a shop.

Any photos of property may help to trace locations and if you post on here someone may be able to recognise the house. 

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,  I've had a good look at the Census records today and apart from William's Family there are no other Rogerson's living in the Llangystenin Parish up to 1911 which is the last Census record on line.
The James Rogerson who is buried at Llandrillo comes from Lancashire, where I think William's father may have originally come from.
I don't know if you use the Census records but just in case you don't, here is what I've found:-
1881 Census   
William aged 3 lived with his widowed mother Mary at Carnarvon Terrace  Llangefni.  Also there were Roger her son and Mary A the daughter.
1891 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living at Hendy No 2 in the Holyhead area with her son Roger.    William and Mary A were not recorded and must have been living elsewhere?
I checked the English Census for 1891 and there was a William of a similar age living with a related family in Lancashire.
1901 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living a 2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction with Mary Ann and William Bell and a niece Mary Agnes aged 9 months.
1911 Census
William Rogerson aged 32 was living at Pen Sarn Farm Llandudno Junction with his wife Mary aged 30 and Edith May, Hannah Mary and William Bell their daughters and son

Earlier on Suepp had advised you that the only Rogerson recorded in the 1929 Street index was G T Rogerson from Gyffin but I know that he also had the Conway Poultry Farm that was situated on Sychnant Pass Road Conway.   His family is from Lancashire originally so is there any possibility that he was a relation of yours?

In the  1891 Census William and Mary Ann were not with their mother so I wonder where they were.  Possibly in a home or with relatives in England?   
I was reading one of my walking books and it referred to a building on the site of the Builders merchants in Llandudno Junction called Bron Heulog that served for many years as the Marl Private Hotel.   The friends I spoke to said that the white building was called Park Hotel so I'm mixed up too.  Perhaps Dwsi and Cambrian who know more about the area than me might remember the buildings.

If you're not confused already in the 1901 Census Emanuel Jones had Marl Farm and the Davies' must have run it sometime afterwards.

[anneelaine]

Hello Hugo
First William bell my Gt Grandfather  Was Born in Dublin 1798 Very rich family  my Gt grandfather   in 1852  till 1864 lived in Dublin And London
In around 1856 My Gt Grandfather went Bankrupt and after that his first wife death
he   moved to Liverpool  and meet my grandmother Mary Jones married her and moved to Bangor Anglesey   in around 1870   He started a new family   My grandfather William Bell was born in 1877  Bangor
 William Bell first wife was Mary Jones and then Jane Anne Davies born 1890
 one  child of  my Gt grandfather   Roger Rogerson moved to Birkenhead the rest stayed around valley
So maybe the farms were the Davies or.
Also Maybe William bell was staying with his brother Roger Rogerson in Lancashire.in 1901
 I think he married Mary Jones in 1907
 O i see William bell mother was living  2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction when he was at Pensarn farm Mmmmm Thinking do you think it could have been a farm from William bell mother side,
  The Jones only because some off her family have moved to farms in Cornwall Jack Jones for one 
I will email my cousin in Australia He may know more about my Gt grandmother side Mary Ann Jones.

Anneelaine

[Hugo]

Anneelaine,  just some points:-

Your Great Granddad William Bell was born in 1798  and your Granddad also called William Bell was born in 1877  that would mean that your Great Granddad was aged 79 when he had his son!     It must have been all that Guinness he had been drinking, I must try some myself.      Z**

In the 1881 England Census, the William I looked at was staying with an Aunt and Uncle as he was listed as a nephew.

William Bell's mother was living with him at 2 Marl Bach in the Census of 1901 but I'm not sure whether Mary was alive or living at Marl Bach in the 1911 Census as I didn't check on her.

I don't think that they owned Pen Sarn Farm as I've seen a transaction sale of part of the land and I don't think a Jones or Rogerson was mentioned in the Deeds.  I was slightly distracted as I met an old friend in the Archives and didn't make any notes on the sale of the land.

[Cambrian]

Yes, Hugo.  Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah.  It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west.  It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.

There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel.  Hope this helps.

[anneelaine]

Hugo Yes your right 79 lol try some they say it's good for you William Bell ( grandfather) had some more kids in Liverpool loo D) but was never got Divorce from Jane in his will he left her 199 pound
   Aunt and Uncle listed as a nephew  was it a Rogerson  his uncle ?
Hope you had a good chat with your mates it's nice to meet up with friends
anneelaine

[anneelaine]

Hugo all I can come up with on the on the 1881 Census   is Lodger Carnarvon Terrace
  cannot find uncle for William Bell just a Thomas Davies do not know who he is Catherine Jones is Mary Rogerson sister
Anneelaine VV

[Hugo]

I'll go to the Library again and check Ancestry and the Census again and will post it here.

[Hugo]

Yes, Hugo.  Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah.  It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west.  It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.

There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel.  Hope this helps.

Thanks very much Cambrian, my friends mentioned that Park Hotel was owned by Martin Stewart and was on the Builders yard site where Bron Heulog was but they may have got the name or location wrong so I'll e-mail them and recheck what they have said.  By the way what colour was Bron Heulog?

[anneelaine]

Thanks Hugo
The big house is on the main road from conwy to llandudno juction it set higher up over looking maybe conwy bay ruining
 next to the station
Anneelaine

[Cambrian]

Hugo - from recollection, Bron Heulog was white which made it seem even more like something from a far flung part of the Empire!

From Anneeline's last comment, I wonder if the house was in Glyn y Marl Road as there are some large properties there which overlook in the direction of the station.

[Hugo]

Cambrian,  I may be wrong but it does sound like Bron Heulog which was on the main road but on slightly higher ground and the views from there cover the wide expanse of the Conwy River.  Have you ever been inside the building?

[Hugo]

Anneelaine, I've just come back from the Library but I haven't found out much but here goes:-

The 1891  Wales Census
Mary and Roger living in Cerrigceinwen as previously mentioned.

Mary Ann Rogerson aged 14 was employed as a domestic servant and was living with John and Mary Jones and their 5 sons in Pentraeth,   Anglesey

The 1891 England Census
William Rogerson aged 13 was working (can't read what as) but staying with Ellen Rogerson aged 41 and single and also Jane Rogerson also single and aged 30.  Sorry but didn't make a note of the address.

The 1871 England Census
William Bell Rogerson aged 72 and a widower was living at 13 Wilton Street  Liverpool born Dublin  Ireland.
Also there were Jane Jones a visitor aged 16?   who was a domestic servant born in Llangefni Anglesey
Also Mary Jones a domestic servant aged 32 born in Llangefni Wales

I didn't find anything for Jane Anne Davies in the 1911 Census mainly due to the fact that there were thousands listed and I ran out of time.    I did find out that Jane Anne Davies and William Bell Rogerson's Marriage was registered in the quarter ended Jul. Aug.Sept  of 1917 and as his first wife died in January of that same year, perhaps that is the reason for the fall out between Jane and the Davies family? 

[Cambrian]

Yes you are probably right Hugo.  I never went in the building but from what I remember it was set back from the road and seemed to be on the top of a gradual slope which contained ornamental gardens. I may be wrong but I also think it had louvered windows as well as the verandah. It was quite an imposing building and it was regrettable when it was demolished.