Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: anneelaine on April 17, 2013, 12:39:28 AM

Title: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on April 17, 2013, 12:39:28 AM
Hi Anyone know about the Rogerson from Pensarn farm from about 1906 or there  about  llangystenin William Bell Rogerson.
Who had the farm in around 1968?  I know we went there in 1968 but was told it was my dad cousins farm but looking it up it looks like my dads brother its all mixed up  any help please
Anyone know any think about the Rogerson from llangstenin
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on April 30, 2013, 09:06:13 PM
HI Just been told today that the Davies had a few farms one was pensarn  farm a round Llangystenin Anne Jane Davies married William Bell Rogerson 1917.after this her family would have nothing to do with her at all,
her family had a big  white house I think they said by the black cat   I think this was a pub as the road went up the hill to llangystenin on the way to pensarn farm
Her sister Elizabeth Lewis nee Davies lived in the church cottage in conway
any help please Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on April 30, 2013, 11:42:25 PM
Hello i am getting more mixed up just found the davies in Trwfriw  @  rectory cottage :roll: do not know what's going on
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on May 01, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
Hi, There is only one Rogerson listed in the 1929 directory, G.T. Rogerson Corn Miller and Grocer, Mill Stores, Gyffin Road Conwy.
In the 1969 Directory there are several Davieses listed as Farmers,but no listing for Pensarn Farm. I will have another look through the Street listings in each.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 01, 2013, 08:48:31 AM
This is a bit of a puzzle.  A "big white house" near Black Cat roundabout could possibly be Bryn Eisteddfod. but it was never a pub and the road it is on does not lead to Llangwstennin (in the uphill direction) also it is in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway (now community of Llansanffraid Glan Conwy).

There is the old family of Davies at Marl Farm, possibly there is some connection ?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on May 01, 2013, 12:58:32 PM
1969 - Farms/Farmers with the name Davies:

Farms and Riding Stables:
 Robert Davies  Penlan Farm Glanwydden,
T Davies Fron Farm, Bryn Pydew,
T Davies Marl Farm, Llan Jct.
Farmers
D. Davies Maes Cadwgan Farm  Conwy
 D Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden
T Davies, Bryn Euryn Farm Rhos-on-Sea
Pensarn Farm doesn't appear to be listed, but I've not yet looked in the Street listings
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 01, 2013, 06:16:59 PM
This my Aunt in the 1911  also  about William Bell Rogerson
 My Dad was born in the same place in 1918 only thing not the same was new wife Mary Rogerson passed away in 1917 and Wlliam Bell married Jane Anne Davies in 1917

Street Address:   Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Marital Status:   Married
Years Married:   4
Estimated Marriage Year:   1907
Occupation:   Farmer
Registration district:   Conway
Registration District Number:   632
Sub-registration district:   Llandudno
Name:   Hannah Rogerson Age in 1911:   2
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1909

Relation to Head:   Daughter
Gender:   Female
Birth Place:   Llangystenin, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil parish:   Llangwstenin
County/Island:   Caernarvonshire
Country:   Wales
Street Address:   Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Occupation:   School
Registration district:   Conway
Registration District Number:   632
Sub-registration district:   Llandudno
ED, institution, or vessel:   08
Household schedule number:   160
Piece:   34543
Household Members:   
Name   Age
William Hill Rogerson   32
Mary Rogerson   30
Edith May Rogerson   4
Hannah Mary Rogerson   2
Wm Bell Rogerson   1
But no one can find the Farm THANKS FOR LOOKING FOR ME
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 01, 2013, 06:24:37 PM
Cambrain
Thanks for that  going to take a look see if i can remember it
A
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 02, 2013, 01:19:07 AM
cambrian HI
             Have been looking at what you were saying! and I have looked at the map and felt i been there walked it with my dad its a caravan park  now And a  Mr O Davies runs it
I have just found a phone number for the park
 I think i will give them a call I hope its the same family.
                    ( Maybe)
they will now about pensarn farm .
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 02, 2013, 01:03:05 PM
Llangystenin is a small village near Colwyn Bay but it also the name of a large Parish in the area.    In the Parish are a nimber of small villages and hamlets and Pensarn is in the area described by Cambrian.
I would imagine that the farm is or was in that area and the Conwy Archives in Llandudno would know the location of the farm.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 02, 2013, 01:41:16 PM
Just following Hugo's comment.  The name of the parish varies - so if researching indexes it is useful to be aware of this.

Rev Robert Williams in his "Aberconwy" (1835) calls the parish "Llangystenin", but the 1843 Enclosure Act refers to it as "Llangwstenin".  The  1895 Order establishing the parish council refers to it as "Llangwstennin" as does the Order which abolished the civil parish in the 1930s. The Church in Wales seems to have called it all three over the years!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 02, 2013, 10:17:04 PM
Thanks everyone for your help
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 02, 2013, 10:25:43 PM
I'm sure that we can trace the farm.   Cambrian is very familiar with that area and I hope to see a friend on Tuesday who lives in Bryn Pydew and may well know where the farm is or was
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 03, 2013, 11:30:04 AM
I had a quick look at a Francis Firth map of 1840 and although the image was fuzzy it looked like Pensarn was where the Water Board buiding is today.     The Parish boundary of Llangystenin was very near there but is unrecognisable now with all the development that has gone on there since the late 1960's.
I'll try and find out more next week.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on May 03, 2013, 01:50:13 PM
Looking at the Street names in Llandudno Junction in 1929, there is a Pensarn - (name of street/road with Conway road written underneath) these are the addresses listed there:
Welsh Calvinistic Chapel
Chapel House
1-13 Railway Terrace
The Dependence Laundry Co.
Llangwstenyn C of E School

is this the general area identified?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 03, 2013, 03:33:34 PM
That's the area Suepp, but the Sarn (causeway) must have crossed over to the Black Cat area because it was called the Monk's Causeway  ( Sarn Y Mynach) 
By the Black Cat Garage is the Welsh Waterboard building and that's the area marked on the 1840 map as Pen Sarn.
Like Cambrian said that area should be in Llansanffraid not Llangystenin but the Parish boundary is a bit odd in that area.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 03, 2013, 10:52:00 PM
 Mrs Davies from the farm  you told me about  (  now a caravan site )
 I phone her up today and she said she thinks  Pensarn Farm is where the Water Board  is today so that's good  How would i find out it was a Rogerson or Davies whose farm it was

Thanks Anne
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 04, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
The Conwy Archives in Llandudno would have that information in their records.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 04, 2013, 04:08:49 PM
Thank you will give them a ring next week
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 04, 2013, 04:29:31 PM
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/archives (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/archives)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 06, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
The boundary was the Denbighshire/Caernarvonshire boundary as well as the two parishes mentioned.  It seems to have followed the Afon Ganol but as Hugo says its route is unclear probably because the channel of the stream has been changed over the years.  I am not sure about Pensarn at the Water Board site.  The first building there was an old booster station which was built on land acquired from the Bryn Eisteddfod estate just before the second world war.  Two houses were built adjacent but these were demolished when the sewage works was built (this itself replaced the HQ of the Conway Valley Water Board which was only built in the early 1970s.) A look at the Llansantffraid Glan Conway tithe map would probably be helpful to pinpoint the position.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on May 06, 2013, 09:44:19 PM
I'm probably throwing more confusion into this but ...

Looking at a map on old-maps.co.uk - the Glan Conwy Corner (Black Cat) area in 1914-1916 had a building known as Pen-Sarn - is it the name of the house opposite Black Cat (which has the boat yard behind it?).

The cottages alongside the railway, and opposite Richard Williams Builders, is known as Pen-sarn Cottages and is also on the map.  The bridge over the railway at that point is known as Pensarn Bridge.  On the old map the road from Black Cat to Pensarn Bridge is shown as Sarn Mynach.

Llandudno Junction did come under Llangwstenin area at one time, not sure where the boundary was.  The eastern section of Llandudno Junction is called the Pensarn Ward in local elections.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 06, 2013, 10:31:05 PM
Thanks I am so lost Now lol but calling the house same name as farm maybe
Just been speaking to my sister and she said the were Rogerson up the Mountain and some at the bottom of the Mountain   
Only because she went to see our aunt and she told her friend that  this is one of the Rogerson from the top  She had gone back in time to pensarn farm when she was a child so could not get much from her (Jane nee Davies) rogerson was her Aunt
Just getting bits back here and there Sorry
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 08, 2013, 08:44:21 AM
DVT is quite right about the location.  I think the property must have changed its name at some stage as it is I believe now called Sarn y Mynach. The parish would have been Llansantffraid Glan Conway (as it was spelt).
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 08, 2013, 10:57:42 AM
I saw two friends at a coffee morning yesterday.  Both are OAP's and lived in Llandudno Junction or Bryn Pydew all their lives and have never heard of Pensarn Farm or any Rogerson so I can't help there.
The one who lives in Llandudno Junction can remember Tal Sarn Farm which was situated where the Ford Garage of W R Davies is now.
I did look at the house opposite the Black Cat Garage but it isn't called Pen Sarn, at least it isn't now.
There is a Tithe map Of Llangystenin in the Conwy Archives that may shed some light on this location.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 09, 2013, 12:41:19 AM
Cannot make it out I'v lost a farm trying to think how we got there in 1968 I know we walked it  with my dad and it was a long way do you think its by
 St. Cystennin's church LLANGYSTENNIN  because  they are in the church grave yard apart from Jane Ann Rogerson
Name:   William Hill Rogerson
[William Bell Rogerson]
Age in 1911:   32
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1879
Relation to Head:   Head
Gender:   Male
Birth Place:   Bangor, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil parish:   Llangwstenin
County/Island:   Caernarvonshire
Country:   Wales
Street Address:   Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Marital Status:   Married
Years Married:   4
Estimated Marriage Year:   1907
Occupation:   Farmer
Registration district:   Conway
THANKS  so much for looking for me Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 09, 2013, 11:23:04 AM
Everything points to the area where the Welsh Water building is now but as you are travelling to Glan Conwy from the Black Cat you pass the Welsh Water building and immediately afterwards on the right there is a long driveway going to a large white house that is near the Bird Reserve.
Is there any chance that this is Pen Sarn Farm?    Does anyone know the name of that property which had been up for sale for a long while? 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Jack on May 09, 2013, 12:52:26 PM
If I'm thinking of the same house as you are talking about Hugo (the white house with a large green nissen hut in the garden?) then I don't think so as that was originally built as a tiny house for the ferryman and was extended in the 1970s and 80s to the size it is now.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on May 09, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
Referring to my previous post I reckon Pensarn Farm was near (opposite) the Black Cat Filling Station, as per the old map.  Llangystennin (Llangwstennin) Parish could well have included that property ... found this bit of info on http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/11774 (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/11774) ...

In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Llangystennin like this:

LLANGWSTENNIN, or LLAN-CYSTENYN, a parish in Conway district, Carnarvon; on the Chester and Holyhead railway, and on the river Conway, at the isthmus of the Rhos peninsula, 3 miles ENE of Conway. Posttown, Conway, Acres, 1,314; of which 64 are water. Real property, £1,787. Pop., 674. Houses, 161. Copper ore is mined. The living is a vicarage in the diocese of St. Asaph. Value, £145. * Patron, the Bishop of St. Asaph. The church is dedicated to St. Constantine, and occupies the site of one alleged to have been founded before 330, by the Emperor Constantine. Cliarities, £16.

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 09, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If I'm thinking of the same house as you are talking about Hugo (the white house with a large green nissen hut in the garden?) then I don't think so as that was originally built as a tiny house for the ferryman and was extended in the 1970s and 80s to the size it is now.

If it wasn't that house Jack, then there is no other one near there and Pen Sarn may have been demolished.   The 1840 map I saw had Pen Sarn on the western side of the old road to Glan Conwy.  If it was on the eastern side of the road the farm would definitely have been in Llansanffraid and not Llangystenin.
I'm surprise that we haven't found out more about the farm by now.   I wonder if Dwsi knows anything about the farm and if it was demolished in the construction of the Welsh Water building?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: dwsi on May 09, 2013, 04:13:17 PM
Someone mentioned by name?  ;D

I get back to you later on
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 09, 2013, 04:47:37 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Someone mentioned by name?  ;D

I get back to you later on

Thanks Dwsi because you know a lot about the area.      $thanx$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 09, 2013, 07:24:40 PM
The house with the green nissen hut is called "Ynys Fawr" and it was refurbished and extended in the late 1970s.  I am not sure a ferry operated from there.  The name alludes to some of the land being technically an island as it was partly surrounded by the Afon Ganol.

As I mentioned earlier, a pumping station or booster was built on the "water board" site in the late 1930s.  That building still survives - rustic looking.  The Conway Valley Water Board offices were built in the same plot around 1972 but demolished to make way for the Ganol Sewage works about 12 years ago.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 10, 2013, 03:27:18 PM
The White house was there in 1947 but do not know what date it was built by the Davies family she say's she went to it and  it's there now
 we will  try and ask some more from her but she gets mixed up at times so can only ask a bit at a time
 She says it was very large white  house  with a  huge staircase  near a shop near to  to the  pub you go up the hill a  little bit she always on about the hill?  And you  look out to the sea sorry about the vagueness.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 10, 2013, 04:05:59 PM
I had a look at the 1911 Census and could see the Rogersons at Pensarn Farm.   With the Census forms you sometimes can get a good idea of the location by flicking the pages back and forth.
With the Rogersons however,  they were the last family in that particular ward so I could only establish the names of houses on one side of Pensarn Farm.
The nearest houses were Bryn Derw,  The Hermitage, Waen Hyfryd and after that came the houses on Esgyryn Hill that I am familiar with. 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 10, 2013, 04:48:40 PM
I have just had a look at a plan of the area when they proposed building the Hotpoint factory and there is a site called  Pen Sarn with numerous buildings on it. This may be the farm because it is definitely in Llangystenin Parish
The location of it was  at the Junction of Pabo Lane and Narrow Lane.  Those buildings on the map are no longer there because it is now part of Richard Williams' business and that of another Builders Merchants.
Anneelaine,  can you remember if the farm was very near a railway line and a bridge as this location I've mentioned is only about 50 yards away from the railway bridge?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FGAT_Reports%2FGATreport_398_compressed.pdf&ei=PA-NUbysBob20gXzvIHwBw&usg=AFQjCNHL8orLsB3UWryX4rbsiW6M_0h44w&sig2=s2YRX4uyyyJaPf7OpSemdg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FGAT_Reports%2FGATreport_398_compressed.pdf&ei=PA-NUbysBob20gXzvIHwBw&usg=AFQjCNHL8orLsB3UWryX4rbsiW6M_0h44w&sig2=s2YRX4uyyyJaPf7OpSemdg)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 10, 2013, 08:59:05 PM
Mmmm i do not think so only because it was a long walk on a lane going upwards  we stop a lot but I was only young but we did come on a train we did not have a car  at that time
Also  when we were going to see family in conwy we would go past the mounting  on the motorway  my dad would say i lived  right up there.
Thats the only think he would say he worked on the family farm did not have a good life there then went into the RAF as soon as he could
 I have a Aunt who is 90 but if you ask her she gets upset so it a hard one thats why I wanted to find out about the family ( what was going on )
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 10, 2013, 09:11:23 PM
Been thinking how long would it take you  to walk up to the farm from the the  main bottom road
  It could be the farm maybe the farmhouse was higher up so it would seem longer to get to.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 10, 2013, 10:35:34 PM
Do you have any idea how far the farm was from the railway and bridge?     Dwsi and Cambrian know a lot more about that area than I do but I remember vaguely  the train stopping at Pabo which was a few hundred yards away but cannot remember if it was a passenger stop or not.
We can find out exactly where the farm was from the Conwy Archives but information on the family may be difficult unless anyone knows the family personally
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 10, 2013, 11:19:16 PM
Hi do not know how far cannot think
I should have done this years ago when people were still alive
But will see how far i can get
 I do know a   lot about life for the Rogerson a very very rich family from Dublin and London but he lost all his money in 1865 wife passed away,  He moved to Liverpool married my gt grandmother from Anglesey in 1872  aged 72 and moved to Anglesey. then had my grandfather in 1877, some how  my grandfather  got Pensarn farm   some were around 1901
 But nothing about the Davies side
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 11, 2013, 10:49:36 AM
Anneelaine,   I have been thinking again about the map I posted and am nearly certain that this was Pensarn Farm.  The houses fit in with the Census forms and put Pen Sarn in that location.
My only hesitation is that the Census forms do not show any houses on the other side or else I would be 100 per cent certain.
I'll try and find out for certain though.
I did have a look at earlier Census forms for 1891 and 1901 and William Rogerson was living at 2 Marl Bach which must have been near Marl Farm, the Davies' home
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 11, 2013, 11:34:55 AM
O right   Thats great
Thank you Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 11, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
This photo maybe the cottage
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 13, 2013, 04:21:32 PM
That's a nice photo Anneelaine and it looks quite old.   I had an e-mail from an elderly Junction man and he thought that Pensarn was the oldest property in that area and thought that it had some connection to a house opposite the Black Cat Garage but didn't know what the connection was.  He had not heard of the Rogerson family though.
  If I can get to the Archives soon then I'll have a look around there for any information.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 13, 2013, 06:47:14 PM
Hi  Hugo Thank you
 Could that be the Davies house? William Rogerson wife and the house we are looking for
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 12:59:55 AM
Hi
 Hugo
This may sound mad but i just put in black cat garage  map and it went on to a map on the
B587 and there was a tree I had a photo took when I was young age 15 could not believe it, went right up the road and the was the caravan park I felt i new that  farm house also i think i have sat outside the front door with a sheep with a broken back when very young
 so i went and  looked  a round  down the lane and saw a white house over looking the road could this be the house my aunt  was on about.the Davies house .
Would the farm be up that lane. pensarn farm
Anneelaine









Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 01:20:56 AM
Been thinking  Marl Farm I know this farm.
 Mrs Davies  said  she did not know anything about the Rogerson as my grandmother Jane Ann Davies was cast out of the family I've  a funny feeling about it all
sounds mad I know i would think that all farms look a like around there
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 02:34:08 AM
Hugo
The 1891 census Marl Farm,  or the cottages Do you think that marl farm was the farm we were taken to
I have a  feeling about the place my sister told me my Dad had  said  it was his  cousin's farm one of the   Davies
so maybe we were not taken to pensarn farm I am so lost now
but mrs Davies said she did not know anythink did not know about a Jane ann
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 14, 2013, 10:57:26 AM
Anneelaine,   over the years our memory does play tricks with us so don't worry we are all in the same boat.    There are different things to look at such as:-
Census records but they are only up to 1911
Elector Registers which are up to date but only give information on people living at that address that are eligible to vote.
Old Maps of the area.

With what you have said about Jane Ann Davies being cast out of the family makes me wonder if she was pregnant and not married as things like that happened years ago.  There are ways of checking these things like Baptism and Marriage records but I've a few things on this week and don't know when I can get to the Archives but I'll go there as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
Hi Hugo Yes she was Pregnant there is a story but do not want to put it on the page anyway is there any  way i can P.m you and tell you the story
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 03:58:39 PM
Hello just found out from my aunt age 90 years old  it took a long time
 she said she says that Pensarn farm was in llandudno Junction   it's gone now she saild
 As far as she knows the farm belonged to her father William bell Rogerson so it must have been about 1925 to about 1928 that she lived there
But the boys from the Rogerson family still worked and lived on the farm  at the time
Apart from Jane Ann  and William Bell   who moved out
 Jane  Ann stayed around there the younger children were put into a home do not no were but would say it would have been in the junction
 But William Bell moved to Liverpool.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: viv on May 14, 2013, 09:57:07 PM
The children's home in the Junction would have been Plas Blodwel, Broad Street opposite Maelgwn School (infants and juniors). After the home closed it became an an old peoples' home, then North Wales Housing Association took it over as their Head Office which is where I work!! Occasionally we have visits from people who used to live there as children and have happy memories of the place. It is a listed building so they have a walk through and remember the good old days! Unfortunately we have no records of the days gonee by, but they will be held in Conwy County Council archives.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 14, 2013, 10:47:02 PM
Thank you hopefully we go and see a few things in the next few weeks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 15, 2013, 03:09:35 PM
The area of Pensarn is in Llandudno Junction and was in the Parish of Llangystenin then, so we are all talking about the same place.   A lot of the farms around this area were tenanted farms and usually owned by one of the bigger landowners in the area and I would imagine that the Rogerson's were tenant farmers.
I'll see what information if any I can find and will post anything here.    If I want any more info from you Anneelaine I'll ask for it again but please don't post any contact details on the forum though.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 15, 2013, 10:14:30 PM
Ok Thank you
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 16, 2013, 04:20:57 PM
There's information on Blodwell Home in Chris Draper's book on Conwy Workhouse.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 16, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
The first two photos are of Marl Farm taken today, the other two were taken from where I think Pen Sarn was.     If you have a think back to 1968, this view wouldn't have changed much as the road bridge over the railway is still there as well as the terrace of cottages.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on May 16, 2013, 10:21:55 PM
 Another farm to add to the list is a Penrhos farm listed in 1929 on Conwy Road at the Junction with Glyn Marl road. Householder is named as Mrs Roberts farmer.
There is a J.R.Davies Farmer at Bryn Derw Segyrunside
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: viv on May 16, 2013, 11:17:23 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There's information on Blodwell Home in Chris Draper's book on Conwy Workhouse.

Thanks for that - will look it up!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 17, 2013, 12:09:40 AM
Hugo Thanks so much for photo's
Right been speaking to my sister and we think maybe it was not Pensarn farm we went to that day it could have gone by 1968  as we were walking for ever up a lane at L. J
She says Dad told her it was a cousin farm
 So I phoned up a cousin in Australia like us he knows bits he said there were Two family farms one up the mountain  The one at the Top He thinks was a Jones farm or Davies
 But saying That we were told my my Aunt age about 99 years old that here comes the Rogerson from the Top farm she did not know who we were but new we were Rogersons
 and one at the bottom  been Pensarnr Farm was the Rogerson Farm so was told to night again
 Maybe we have family still at the top  farm!!That would be so good its so mixed up
Again thank you so much for photos
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 17, 2013, 04:59:41 PM
Anneelaine,  I was talking to a friend last night and he has a lot of knowledge about the Llandudno Junction area and although he didn't know exactly where the farm was he was adamant that there was no farm there in 1968.
You must have been very young at the time but can you remember the name of the people that you stayed with and was it an ordinary house that you stayed at  or was it another farm?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 17, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Having dug about a bit more, it looks to me as if Narrow Lane was at one time called Bryn Derw Lane.  Along the lane before you got to Waenfynydd was a farm called Bryn Derw Farm.  In 1939 it was occupied by a John Richard Davies. This lane starts from Conway Road roughly where Pensarn Farm was.

The site at Pensarn was occupied by Bookers wholesale "cash and carry".  They were there in the late 1960s.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 17, 2013, 06:15:10 PM
Hi I would think it was Davies  could not tell you much as welsh was spoken all the time and I only know bits
Yes Hugo it was only a ordinary house grey and very dark 2 floors  I think i may have a photo not sure if the house was on the photo maybe just me looking after the sheep
  there was  no wife we never saw one anyway
 and my mother never came only my Dad do not know why
 never told us any names just a old man and son we only went in for  tea
spent all the time  with my sister outside all the times
I loved going freedom
we  stopped going in 1967 /68
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 17, 2013, 11:52:10 PM
Hugo
We came on a train to Junction from Chester and then walked up to the farm never stayed over
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 18, 2013, 03:37:06 AM
Hugo
It  look like ordinary detached house very Gray stone 
It was a very old scary  main house  not as big and glamorous  as you see the ones now
this how I saw it as a child.
Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 18, 2013, 04:18:02 AM
St. Cystennin's church Bryn Pydew I will try and give them a ring? I think.
Do you think they would know what farms most of the family came from? Apart from pensarn  we know about
  Do you think they  would keep old books there ?
 There are about 5 of them in the graveyard .
Been thinking William Rogerson first wife she was called Mary Jones they were at the farm pensarn in 1911
after her death in 1917 he married Jane and took her to the same farm maybe the farm was connected to Mary Jones side of the family
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 18, 2013, 04:53:27 AM
Sorry only one more thing
 I think what made me think it could be a Jones was that when I phoned my cousin in Australia  last night he said  that maybe the  farm was from the Jones side I said do not think so but thinking it over maybe he was right
Anne
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 19, 2013, 12:53:37 PM
Anneelaine,  I'm hoping to go to the Archives in Llandudno this coming week and will have a look around the records there.  I'll look first at the Burial Indexes for Llangystenin Church, they list the location of the graves and are in alphabetical order so are easy to trace.
What is also shown is the inscription on the gravestone and I'm hoping that this will give me the name of the top farm which I suspect is in the Bryn Pydew area.
I'll then have a look at some other records and see what transpires there.

You posted  "She says it was very large white  house  with a  huge staircase  near a shop near to  to the  pub you go up the hill a  little bit she always on about the hill?  And you  look out to the sea sorry about the vagueness" 
I've one idea about that but need to check dates with someone just in case I'm wrong
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 19, 2013, 06:26:27 PM
Thanks Hugo
 Davies was the name for  the white house my Aunt went in about 1947 or around that time
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 20, 2013, 03:45:14 PM
Anneelaine,   I went to the Archives today and looked at a few records there.  The Burial records for Llangystenin Church show 4 people in grave No C007 and the Rogersons were:-Catherine Ellen, Mary, William and William Bell.    I have translated the inscription from Welsh into English for you:-
"  In loving memory of Mary Rogerson dear wife of William Rogerson Pensarn Farm Llangystenin who died 27th January 1917 aged 38.
                                                     Also
Catherine Ellen dear child of the above who died 27th October 1918 aged 1 year 9 months.
                                                       Also
William Bell Rogerson who died 19th February 1940 aged 62.
There were no other Rogersons buried in Llangystenin nor in Llanrhos, the other Cemetery for that area but there were three other Rogersons buried in Llandrillo Church (Rhos on Sea) at grave No M091 and their inscriptions read as follows:-
" In loving memory of James Rogerson 1863-1952  Mary Rogerson 1863-1952 and their beloved daughter Mabel 1896-1991 the widow of Tom Smith died 1968"      The inscription didn't mention where they lived though but I might be able to find out and may have more information on that big white house when I have double checked things out.
I have enclosed 3 photos of the Llangystenin graves
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 20, 2013, 04:07:44 PM
I forgot to mention that Pen Sarn Farm has been demolished but was situated where I said it was on the photo of part of a map.  I have confirmed this with an 1889 O/S map and also details of a parcel of land that was sold by the owner of the farm in the 1800's.  It wasn't owned by the Rogerson's but must have been tenanted.
If you want to see where it was on the Google Street map go down Pabo Lane from the Railway Bridge and it was on the left just before the new A470 road crosses the lane
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 20, 2013, 10:30:58 PM
Hugo Thank you so much  so kind of you for the help $thanx$
You say there are 4 in the grave
 First wife Mary 1917
 Ellen as a baby & William!!!! did it have a date for this william ?maybe 1910 death 1985
 and William Bell  Rogerson 1940
the one I do not know about is William
I Think Jane Ann Rogerson his  2ad wife Grave is in St Agnes's  in Conwy some were  I'v been a long time ago 
but forgot were about it is.
So it looks like we did not go to Pensarn farm
 Were did we go Mmmmmm I think that a hard one.
all we know then it was a cousins farm some were up them hills and for all the years we believed we had been to   Pen sarn farm
 We have found out a lot after all my dad would not speak  about his life its his birthday to day
also it was hard work with my Aunt  she says it best left alone but I am going to show the boys around there in the next few weeks were there granddad lived without your help guy would not know were to start thanks  to you All
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2013, 11:25:30 AM
Anneelaine,    just thinking about it, there is a simple explanation for the grave in Llangystenin.    The Archivists when they make the Burial Index list the names on the headstones and then index them alphabetically.   William  (Hill) Rogerson was listed as he was Mary's husband at the time of her death.   However he was not buried there.  Later in 1917 he married Jane Ann (or Anne Jane Davies) and providing he was still married to her he may have been buried in St Agnes' in Conwy.
The Burial Index in the Archives will tell me that.
With regard to James and Mary Rogerson it would be worth a look in the 1952 copy of the North Wales Weekly News at the Archives to see if it gives their address. ( strange that they died in the same year?)
I don't know when Pen Sarn Farm was demolished but Electoral Records may help to give a rough idea but it will involve a bit of work doing it.    The address of the farm was  Pen Sarn Farm  Pabo Lane   Llandudno Junction.

I was talking to my Llandudno Junction friends on Thursday evening and neither knew where Pen Sarn Farm was but were adamant that it wasn't there in 1968.   Interestingly enough the large white house came into conversation and one of my friends worked on the house when he was young.  He thought that he painted it white but did say that in the house was a beautiful large Oak staircase that he can remember well.   I want to check further but I can tell you that it was there in 1968 and that it also has some connection with where Pen Sarn Farm was situated.     Also it is uphill from the Black Cat Corner and slightly less so from Pen Sarn Farm itself
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 21, 2013, 02:58:00 PM
Hello Hugo
 William Hill  Rogerson  is William  Bell Rogerson name wrong in  the census,
Jane Ann Rogerson is by herself just phoned  the graveyard   grave B548
 So maybe Pensarn and the white house belonged to  same  Family the Davies
will cheek on on the names you give me Know
Thanks
Anne

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2013, 04:17:36 PM
Anneelaine,  The William Rogerson listed on the headstone is the William Bell Rogerson   b1879 and died 1940 so it's one and the same person.
So in the grave are 3 people and William was therefore buried with his first wife in Llangystenin and not with his second wife as I originally thought.
The big white house that had a large Oak staircase was called Park Hotel but was demolished and I believe was owned at the time by Martin Stewart who owns Richard Williams Builders Merchants and one of his yards is built on part of the site of the old Pen Sarn Farm.

Now I've no evidence to say that this is the property in question but I'm making some enquiries to find out more information and it could be just a coincidence.
Have you got those photos of the house you called at and also the photo of you by the tree when you were 15.  The tree should still be there and might help to identify where you were?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 21, 2013, 04:31:21 PM
The photo are with some of my dads bits in a case with  100's off photo and slides in the attic
  I well try and find them this week
 My Aunt said the house she went to is still there  but she gets mixed up that was 2 weeks ago
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
Your Aunt may well be correct and the Park Hotel may be just a coincidence and the white house is somewhere else.   When you said that one family of Rogerson lived at the top and one at the bottom, my initial thought was that the top one lived in Bryn Pydew which is a small village at the top of a hill above where Pen Sarn Farm was.
But as yet we haven't established where exactly the top Rogerson family lived
At one time Bryn Pydew did have a shop, pub and a number of large white houses nearby but I don't know when the shop and pub closed.   There were two pubs there, the Red Lion which was run as a pub in the 19th Century and the old Swan but I don't know when that ceased as a pub, before becoming a shop.

Any photos of property may help to trace locations and if you post on here someone may be able to recognise the house. 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 22, 2013, 01:40:48 PM
Anneelaine,  I've had a good look at the Census records today and apart from William's Family there are no other Rogerson's living in the Llangystenin Parish up to 1911 which is the last Census record on line.
The James Rogerson who is buried at Llandrillo comes from Lancashire, where I think William's father may have originally come from.
I don't know if you use the Census records but just in case you don't, here is what I've found:-
1881 Census   
William aged 3 lived with his widowed mother Mary at Carnarvon Terrace  Llangefni.  Also there were Roger her son and Mary A the daughter.
1891 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living at Hendy No 2 in the Holyhead area with her son Roger.    William and Mary A were not recorded and must have been living elsewhere?
I checked the English Census for 1891 and there was a William of a similar age living with a related family in Lancashire.
1901 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living a 2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction with Mary Ann and William Bell and a niece Mary Agnes aged 9 months.
1911 Census
William Rogerson aged 32 was living at Pen Sarn Farm Llandudno Junction with his wife Mary aged 30 and Edith May, Hannah Mary and William Bell their daughters and son

Earlier on Suepp had advised you that the only Rogerson recorded in the 1929 Street index was G T Rogerson from Gyffin but I know that he also had the Conway Poultry Farm that was situated on Sychnant Pass Road Conway.   His family is from Lancashire originally so is there any possibility that he was a relation of yours?

In the  1891 Census William and Mary Ann were not with their mother so I wonder where they were.  Possibly in a home or with relatives in England?   
I was reading one of my walking books and it referred to a building on the site of the Builders merchants in Llandudno Junction called Bron Heulog that served for many years as the Marl Private Hotel.   The friends I spoke to said that the white building was called Park Hotel so I'm mixed up too.  Perhaps Dwsi and Cambrian who know more about the area than me might remember the buildings.

If you're not confused already in the 1901 Census Emanuel Jones had Marl Farm and the Davies' must have run it sometime afterwards.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 22, 2013, 03:27:21 PM
Hello Hugo
First William bell my Gt Grandfather  Was Born in Dublin 1798 Very rich family  my Gt grandfather   in 1852  till 1864 lived in Dublin And London
In around 1856 My Gt Grandfather went Bankrupt and after that his first wife death
he   moved to Liverpool  and meet my grandmother Mary Jones married her and moved to Bangor Anglesey   in around 1870   He started a new family   My grandfather William Bell was born in 1877  Bangor
 William Bell first wife was Mary Jones and then Jane Anne Davies born 1890
 one  child of  my Gt grandfather   Roger Rogerson moved to Birkenhead the rest stayed around valley
So maybe the farms were the Davies or.
Also Maybe William bell was staying with his brother Roger Rogerson in Lancashire.in 1901
 I think he married Mary Jones in 1907
 O i see William bell mother was living  2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction when he was at Pensarn farm Mmmmm Thinking do you think it could have been a farm from William bell mother side,
  The Jones only because some off her family have moved to farms in Cornwall Jack Jones for one 
I will email my cousin in Australia He may know more about my Gt grandmother side Mary Ann Jones.

Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 22, 2013, 04:36:20 PM
Anneelaine,  just some points:-

Your Great Granddad William Bell was born in 1798  and your Granddad also called William Bell was born in 1877  that would mean that your Great Granddad was aged 79 when he had his son!     It must have been all that Guinness he had been drinking, I must try some myself.      Z**

In the 1881 England Census, the William I looked at was staying with an Aunt and Uncle as he was listed as a nephew.

William Bell's mother was living with him at 2 Marl Bach in the Census of 1901 but I'm not sure whether Mary was alive or living at Marl Bach in the 1911 Census as I didn't check on her.

I don't think that they owned Pen Sarn Farm as I've seen a transaction sale of part of the land and I don't think a Jones or Rogerson was mentioned in the Deeds.  I was slightly distracted as I met an old friend in the Archives and didn't make any notes on the sale of the land.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 22, 2013, 05:21:33 PM
Yes, Hugo.  Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah.  It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west.  It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.

There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 22, 2013, 05:53:45 PM
Hugo Yes your right 79 lol :o try some they say it's good for you William Bell ( grandfather) had some more kids in Liverpool loo D) but was never got Divorce from Jane in his will he left her 199 pound
   Aunt and Uncle listed as a nephew  was it a Rogerson  his uncle ?
Hope you had a good chat with your mates it's nice to meet up with friends
anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 23, 2013, 12:45:11 AM
Hugo all I can come up with on the on the 1881 Census   is Lodger Carnarvon Terrace
  cannot find uncle for William Bell just a Thomas Davies do not know who he is Catherine Jones is Mary Rogerson sister
Anneelaine VV
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
I'll go to the Library again and check Ancestry and the Census again and will post it here.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2013, 10:34:01 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yes, Hugo.  Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah.  It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west.  It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.

There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel.  Hope this helps.

Thanks very much Cambrian, my friends mentioned that Park Hotel was owned by Martin Stewart and was on the Builders yard site where Bron Heulog was but they may have got the name or location wrong so I'll e-mail them and recheck what they have said.  By the way what colour was Bron Heulog?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 23, 2013, 01:43:30 PM
Thanks Hugo
The big house is on the main road from conwy to llandudno juction it set higher up over looking maybe conwy bay ruining
 next to the station
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 23, 2013, 01:56:22 PM
Hugo - from recollection, Bron Heulog was white which made it seem even more like something from a far flung part of the Empire!

From Anneeline's last comment, I wonder if the house was in Glyn y Marl Road as there are some large properties there which overlook in the direction of the station.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
Cambrian,  I may be wrong but it does sound like Bron Heulog which was on the main road but on slightly higher ground and the views from there cover the wide expanse of the Conwy River.  Have you ever been inside the building?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2013, 05:01:27 PM
Anneelaine, I've just come back from the Library but I haven't found out much but here goes:-

The 1891  Wales Census
Mary and Roger living in Cerrigceinwen as previously mentioned.

Mary Ann Rogerson aged 14 was employed as a domestic servant and was living with John and Mary Jones and their 5 sons in Pentraeth,   Anglesey

The 1891 England Census
William Rogerson aged 13 was working (can't read what as) but staying with Ellen Rogerson aged 41 and single and also Jane Rogerson also single and aged 30.  Sorry but didn't make a note of the address.

The 1871 England Census
William Bell Rogerson aged 72 and a widower was living at 13 Wilton Street  Liverpool born Dublin  Ireland.
Also there were Jane Jones a visitor aged 16?   who was a domestic servant born in Llangefni Anglesey
Also Mary Jones a domestic servant aged 32 born in Llangefni Wales

I didn't find anything for Jane Anne Davies in the 1911 Census mainly due to the fact that there were thousands listed and I ran out of time.    I did find out that Jane Anne Davies and William Bell Rogerson's Marriage was registered in the quarter ended Jul. Aug.Sept  of 1917 and as his first wife died in January of that same year, perhaps that is the reason for the fall out between Jane and the Davies family? 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 23, 2013, 05:04:50 PM
Yes you are probably right Hugo.  I never went in the building but from what I remember it was set back from the road and seemed to be on the top of a gradual slope which contained ornamental gardens. I may be wrong but I also think it had louvered windows as well as the verandah. It was quite an imposing building and it was regrettable when it was demolished.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 23, 2013, 05:34:02 PM
Thanks for that Hugo looks like you have found new family i did not know about
 Ellen and Jane who are they lol &shake&
were do I start i thought that there was only William Bell Gt Grandfather that come from Dublin
one step forward 2 back
William Bell Rogerson aged 72 and a widower was living at 13 Wilton Street  Liverpool born Dublin  Ireland.
Also there were Jane Jones a visitor aged 16?   who was a domestic servant born in Llangefni Anglesey
Also Mary Jones a domestic servant aged 32 born in Llangefni Wales
Jane Jones was Mary Jones sister  Mary was my Gt grandfatherreason
 reason for the fall out between Jane and the Davies family?
 was she had my uncle in 1916 say no more
William was the farther she got cast out when they found out
Anneelaine




Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 23, 2013, 09:41:28 PM
 :rage:Hugo been looking for hours lol What did you put in when looking for W.B 1891
I can see it being a all night'er :'( when you found Jane and Ellen Rogerson
you could have open a can off worms for me lol  It's  sending  husband  mad
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2013, 10:46:49 PM
Just go into the 1891 Census for England and put in William Bell Rogerson and his year of birth then hit the search button.   Easy peasy but look to the right hand side and for nephew then view it.  I think that it is on page 1

Good luck   $good$

Don't try looking for Jane Anne Davies though as you'll be up all night
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 24, 2013, 05:37:52 AM
Hugo still could not find W.B what did you say about not staying up all night  :rage:
anyway
1891 Wales Census
about Jane A Davies

Name:
Jane A Davies

Age:
1

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1890

Relation:
Daughter

Father's Name:
Owen Davies

Mother's Name:
Cathrine Davies

Gender:
Female

Where born:
Trefriw, Caernarvonshire, Wales

 

Civil Parish:
Trefriw

Ecclesiastical parish:
Trefriw

Town:
Trefriw

County/Island:
Caernarvonshire

Country:
Wales

 

Street Address:
View Image

Condition as to marriage:
View Image

Education:
View Image

Employment status:
View Image

Occupation:
View Image

 

Registration District:
Llanrwst

Sub-registration District:
Bettwsycoed

ED, institution, or vessel:
9

Neighbors:
View others on page 

Piece:
4633

Folio:
83

Page Number:
3

Household Members:


Name

Age

Owen Davies 32
Cathrine Davies 32
Hugh Davies 8
Mary C Davies 6
Elizabeth E Davies 2
Jane A Davies
 
 
going to bed eyes closing
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 24, 2013, 04:39:54 PM
Well done Anneelaine,  you deserve a medal and a good night's sleep!       &well&

I drove past the site of the old Pen Sarn Farm this morning and most of it has been taken over as a builders yard but there is an area of overgrown trees nearby so I must have a nosey inside sometime and see if there is any sign of the farm buildings there.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 24, 2013, 10:52:14 PM
Hi Hugo
I think I am right with the family do you know what Owen job was it says a saer?

 Right names
and I heard about a family that live there
 from my aunt but she did not say it was Gt grandmother
And she did say the family had money
A :o :-\ Anneelaine.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 25, 2013, 01:30:12 AM
 :rage: Hugo The only one I can find for 1891 is Roger Rogerson Cannot find W.B
 I Did what you said
Ancestry.co.uk  This was on  is it the right page
 HELP
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 25, 2013, 12:02:35 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
:rage: Hugo The only one I can find for 1891 is Roger Rogerson Cannot find W.B
 I Did what you said
Ancestry.co.uk  This was on  is it the right page
 HELP
Anneelaine

Another late night Anneelaine!     It's quite addictive isn't it.   $good$

When I went to the Library to have a look at the Census all I did was click on the Ancestry Icon,   then scroll down to UK census and click on it.    The brings up all the UK Census records so then click on 1891 England Census.
When that page opens put Williams full name down and his year of birth and just click the search button.
Williams name should pop up and look for nephew on the right hand of the page.     Good luck
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 25, 2013, 12:06:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi Hugo
I think I am right with the family do you know what Owen job was it says a saer?

 Right names
and I heard about a family that live there
 from my aunt but she did not say it was Gt grandmother
And she did say the family had money
A :o :-\ Anneelaine.

I don't know what occupation a saer was but in Welsh saer means either a wright, mason or carpenter so I'm guessing that his occupation was one of those 3 trades.
By the way have you got a house name for the Davies family as the house could still be there?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on May 25, 2013, 01:03:02 PM
I have found "Saer" is usually taken to mean a joiner - the root may be the English "sawyer".
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 25, 2013, 05:11:35 PM
Thanks Cambrian.     $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 26, 2013, 12:01:40 AM
HI This is the address it change names but been told this is the name of it now ,  Bryn Rodyn,Trefriw  The stonebuilt cottage the DAVIES were at in 1901
I was also sent a photo but cannot get it on this page says to big
Anneelain
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 26, 2013, 12:13:48 AM
 :rage: :rage: Hugo I think I being a bit thick Still cannot fined him all it's giving me is roger
Was he in wales or England at the time 1891 lol Thanks anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 26, 2013, 10:24:57 AM
Anneelaine,  he was in England and that's how I found him on the 1891 England Census.   Are you looking on the 1891 Wales Census?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 26, 2013, 08:10:33 PM
http://www.iwanmwilliams.info/images/properties/LL911.bryn%20rodyn.doc.pdf (http://www.iwanmwilliams.info/images/properties/LL911.bryn%20rodyn.doc.pdf)
photo of Jane house 1901
This is the only one I can find Hugo  :-[ Record
williamRogerson  abt 1878 Ashton-Upon-Mersey, Cheshire, England Nephew Ashton upon Mersey, Cheshire
Anneelaine














 


 


 


 


 

 
 
 williamRogerson  abt 1878 Ashton-Upon-Mersey, Cheshire, England Nephew Ashton upon Mersey, Cheshire
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 27, 2013, 10:36:02 AM
Nice House in Trefriw and I must have been passed it a few times on my walks in that area.

Although I can't see the details on here that's the one I found on the 1891  England Census

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 27, 2013, 06:39:09 PM
Not the same one he was born in Cheshire :(
were did W.B go in 1891 been looking for days now lol
O and nights lol
looks a lovely house wish I could join the dots
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 27, 2013, 06:50:47 PM
Just recheck on William Bell as in those days they sometimes entered Parishes instead of towns.  Where do you think he was born?

Sorry Anneelaine I have made a  $booboo$     I can see from an earlier page that he was born in Bangor Caernarfonshire   I'll try again and will double check every thing.  He must be on it somewhere.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 28, 2013, 12:49:49 AM
 $hands$ I will  give it ago again to night thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 30, 2013, 02:17:37 PM
Any luck Anneelaine? 

William wasn't in the 1891 Wales Census and I couldn't find him in the England Census either when I tried this morning.         &shake&
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 30, 2013, 04:13:05 PM
Mmmm cannot think were he would be
 he's got to be some were or maybe not been put on it did not think you could do that ?{}?
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 30, 2013, 04:16:03 PM
Hugo I been looking most off the night no luck were has he gone
 *&( Good job I cannot sleep will try again tonight
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 31, 2013, 12:29:06 PM
I had an e-mail from my friend in Llandudno Junction and he confirmed what we already knew about the Location of Pensarn Farm.   The farm was on the site of where Jewsons is now and next to it is scrub land which was part of the farm too but I couldn't see any ruins there today although there is a drop down kerb there that serves no apparent purpose now.
He also confirmed that the building described by Cambrian is the one he meant and my other friend from the Junction remembered the large staircase there and painting it too.  So perhaps this is the large white house you have described.   It was about 150 yards away from the farm and nearer Llandudno Junction.  Sadly both buildings are no longer there.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 01, 2013, 03:25:53 AM
 :D Thanks for that Hugo
\I know were to take a look  when we go in a few weeks
is there anyway I could find out who was the last one to have the farm
Do your friends know who lived in the house when painting it? how long  has it been pulled down   :(
I would love to know were the farm was were we went as a child will never know I think now ¢¢##
As we know I think now the house and the farm could belong to the Davies
 $thanx$ Hugo
anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 01, 2013, 06:56:36 PM
You've got a lot of questions there Anneelaine and I don't know if you'll find all the answers you are looking for.

In the Conwy Archives they may have some info which can tell you know who was the last one to have the farm ( rate books, electoral registers etc) but you'd need to ask them and it may take some time.
According to my friends they said that the house was owned by Martin Stewart and the house was demolished when he built his business Richard Williams Builders Ltd on that site.  In actual fact Martin has another Builders merchants under the same name on part of the site of Pensarn Farm.   Jewsons and another building firm are in fact all on the site of the old farm
If you have a photo of the farm, the old tree or anything else when you were at the other place it may help to identify it.   The Davies family had other farms in the area as well as Marl Farm so it could be one of those
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 01, 2013, 10:38:52 PM
Thanks Hugo
Will take a look a round Conwy Archives the  but I will phone them first
Just one more thing about the house may sound daft, But did they have a grand piano
 My Aunt would go on about this
 maybe the painter would know could you fined out if it did please
If so I would think it is  the right house .
 $thanx$
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 01, 2013, 11:07:56 PM
I'll e-mail my friend and ask him about the piano or otherwise go down to the club to see the the one who painted the place all in the line of research though.       Z**

Just try and have a think about where you stayed on that day in 1967/8. Was it a long way up a steep hill or not? 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 02, 2013, 06:13:16 AM
Hi Hugo Pensarn farm must have been the bottom farm so I will have to try and find the top farm some how  (*)
Yes the farm was a good walk
 My sister  said the same we think we must have walked for a few miles and it was a bit of a steep hill long lane
 Do you know we still do not know how we got back to the train
I need to buy a slide thing did not know what they are called lol to put slides into it to see the photo's my dad took
in the 60/70s I can see the 2 photo at the farm in my mind but I think one just me and a tree and the other just me and sheep lol
going to try my Aunt again maybe just ask one thing at a time
 $thanx$ Hugo  O Yes Hugo in line of  research  Z**
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 02, 2013, 10:26:33 AM
I've sent an e-mail off to my friend regarding the white house and am awaiting a reply but I've just read a bit about the house and it says that it had a croquet lawns and tennis courts.
Does your Aunt remember whether the white house had these features?

The reason I asked you about the steep hill was because my friend mentioned two other farms in the area (apart from Marl Farm) that the Davies family owned.   Both are a long way uphill from where Pensarn was and are in or near the village of Bryn Pydew.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 03, 2013, 02:16:58 PM
Anneelaine,  I was in the Archives today and had a look at the burial index for St Agnes Church Conwy.   Unfortunately I could see no entry for any Rogerson.
The Archives lists the names of people that have inscriptions on their headstones but Jane could still have been buried there.

Perhaps she remarried and is buried in her new name?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 04, 2013, 01:55:16 AM
Hi Hugo
 I've phoned up St Agnes Church She is there The lady looked and said the same could not find her
But in the end she did  she said the paper its written on is not very clear I have got the grave number  she is all my herself
the guy's son from the farm we went to was  very odd and scared us he was  very tall had a cap on a bit funny looking
so maybe someone would know about him
I would say its his son but do not know for sure
Maybe it was William Bell Rogerson the 2nd born 1910  at Pen sarn farm  death 1985
Do not know were he went cannot find him after 1911
Yes it was a long way up hill we walked ,
How many lanes are there up  to the Davies farms in Bryn Pydew.
also when we would take my dad to see his brother as we were on the M55 i think it called  just before we got to Llandudno junction my Dad would always say I worked right up there  pointing to the Hills thinking about it now pen sarn was to low down now
how far would you say it was to walk to Bryn Pydew.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 08:29:52 AM
If you have the grave No, please let me have it and I'll go again to the Archives and try to trace it that way.   From Pensarn there are just two possible lanes.  The first being Pabo Lane that the farm was in and that leads to Pabo Hall and then onto Bryn Pydew.
The other leads up narrow Lane to Esgyrun hill and then into Pydew.
I'll let you know the mileage asap and hopefully some photos that may jog your memory.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 04:03:14 PM
I've had a bit more info today.  Firstly the big house in Llandudno Junction ceased to be a hotel in 1946/47 and changed the name from Marl Hotel back to Bron Heulog.
Secondly, I was having a coffee morning today with the OAP's and one person there is a Bryn Pydew born and bred person so I asked him a few questions.  I had already had an e-mail that said the  Davies family from Marl Farm also had two other farms in the area  Esgyryn Farm and Fron Farm.
Mrs Olwen Davies lives at Fron Farm with her daughter Jane and Olwen is the second wife and widow of the Mr Davies who had Marl Farm.  It sounded promising and as it was a nice day I drove up to Bryn Pydew to have a look around and take some photos.
The journey from Pensarn Farm to Bryn Pydew and back is exactly 3 miles via Narrow Lane and Esgyryn Hill but would be shorter from Pensarn Farm to Fron Farm.
I have taken some photos of both farms and will post them later in the hope that it may jog your memory

By the way, if your father said that he had worked on the hillside then that would be Bryn Pydew as we know it today.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
The first photo is of Esgyryn Farm looking up the lane and the second one is the view you get looking back down the lane. That building is no longer a farm.
The third and subsequent photos are of the long lane leading to Fron Farm from Pydew, the farm itself and the view from the farm looking in the direction of Pensarn Farm.
If you walked from Pensarn Farm via Pabo Lane, it is a narrow lane with some houses on the left but you will pass a caravan park along the way.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 04:26:40 PM
Fron Farm
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 05:33:49 PM
Centre of Bryn Pydew
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 04, 2013, 07:50:43 PM
 $thanx$ Hugo

 Jane Ann grave number is 548b .
Also will take photos to my sisters to night what she thinks
I  am about 75% that we were going up Pabo Lane it just rings a bell
I have seen a house I think I no but not to sure and I lost it again ,will try to find it to night
Hugo I cannot thank you enough for your help
 Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 04, 2013, 08:02:16 PM
Hugo Just found out there is a Rogerson   could be a Davies  in the grave yard GREAT ORME - SAINT TUDNO  70% sure it Rogerson also I think its a girl  I think it was my dads cousin
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 08:14:20 PM
I'll look for both tomorrow when I go to the Archives but I've got a feeling that I've looked already in both St Tudno's and Llanrhos and not seen a Rogerson  listed.
Also with regard to St Agnes' Cemetery the Graves are usually listed in Plots and given a letter to signify each plot and then a number afterwards.   For example  A 123.
The number you have listed 548b may be another record of the burial but won't tell you where the grave is but I won't know for certain until tomorrow.
I'll do my best to find it anyway.
If you can remember the girl's name I can look under Davies or Rogerson
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 04, 2013, 09:17:04 PM
Hi have got it down as plot could be B548 if not will get back to her it could the way I right things down lol I have Irien syndrome so some times I write backwards lol
Anneelaine $thanx$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 04, 2013, 10:19:52 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi have got it down as plot could be B548 if not will get back to her it could the way I right things down lol I have Irien syndrome so some times I write backwards lol
Anneelaine $thanx$

Don't worry about it, let me look in the Archives first before you go to any trouble and I'll let you know what I've found.   I'm hoping to get some photos of Pabo Lane tomorrow and see if they help.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 05, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
I went down Pabo Lane from Pensarn Farm area today and took some more photos.  The first one is where the farm once stood on the left then the others follow in sequence as I went up the lane in the direction of Fron Farm.
After the Pen Sarn site and the new road bridge, little has changed and the buildings haven't altered much so I'm hoping that they seem familiar.
Follow the lane past two farms and where the lane turns to the right continue straight on, on the lane past the Caravan camp.  Soon you come to Pabo Lodge and the long straight lane to the left goes to Pabo Hall.  The other lane on the right leads to a public footpath that takes you up to Fron Farm.   The white farm in the distance behind the post is Fron Farm.
This way is roughly about 1 mile and is more direct than the one I mentioned yesterday.
Funnily enough when I was in my car my friend from Llandudno Junction came past on his bike and I asked him if he could remember if there was a grand piano in Bron Heulog the large white house but sadly he couldn't remember.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 05, 2013, 12:05:36 PM
Pabo Lane
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 05, 2013, 03:46:19 PM
Anneelaine, that Burial No was spot on but unfortunately isn't listed in their burial books as she was buried in a Municipal grave.  The Archive people said that the whereabouts of her grave may be listed in any one of a few dozen Registers and that I'd have to delve a lot for it.
I'm afraid that as it's a very hot day and I'm in my shorts,  I've headed for the beach and an ice cream instead.     You have said that you had seen it before so you may have some idea where it is.   If you are looking at the Cemetery from St Agnes Road the Municipal Cemetery is on the right.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 05, 2013, 10:43:31 PM
  :laugh:You have sun your end its cold here lol and ice-cream as well lol
I can see her name on the grave stone as if it was yesterday 
I well phone the girl up again as she said she was the only one in the grave
and we were going to pass on to my son
Right been looking
 At bits and found a address for my Dad when he married my mum But not the farm spent hours looking and not got the address I wanted :'( its carmal chapel house Conwy* why is my dad living in a church!!! :o
I have his RAF number so maybe I can get a address when he joined before the WW2
thanks for photo's taking a long look at them all
 Later to night.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 05, 2013, 11:32:39 PM
Anneelaine, if you look at Jane's death notice it showed her address as Bronallt Chapel Street Conwy and Ty Capel Carmel  ( Carmel Chapel House)  is only a couple of doors away.
It could be that they worked in the chapel and had the Chapel House as a condition of their employment.  William Bell died in 1940 aged 62 and he may have given up the tenancy of the farm by then but that's only a guess.

Just changing the subject a bit, have you got your Dad's war medals and the only reason I've mentioned that is because I haven't got my Dad's and I've recently applied for them.  Someone told me about applying and it was the first I knew that you could do such a thing.

If any of the Pabo Lane photos seems familiar let me know.

There is a local paper called the North Wales Weekly News and sometimes Obituaries are recorded in the paper.  It goes back many years and may record some info regarding William Bell and also Jane.  The Archives have copies of these newspapers
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 06, 2013, 12:17:42 AM
Hi Hugo I think William bell let the farm go in around 1926/27 because he had a new family going in Liverpool son born around 1928
 never got married again stayed married to my Gran
I have a address from Jane before she was married in Llandudno but I cannot make out looks like vietinia yard on her marriage docket  also two names Owen Owens and Annie Owens just found them in my dads bits& bats
I have not gone into before just keep in a gold box
looks like it says nc parish church llangystenin 
My son just took me up and down both roads Narrow Lane and Pabo Lane on  Google earth map its  so cool
  I feel more of a link to Narrow Lane do not ask me why as its all new
I sent email to my sister to take a look at the photos see what see says about the them
My dad left his medals to my older Son and my sister older child a girl had my mums Thanks
Going to take a look at the North Wales Weekly News now thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 06, 2013, 07:25:50 AM
I'm glad that you went on google earth to see the street view. Going up Narrow Lane you come to a roundabout and go straight across it. Keep going uphill and after about 100 yards or so you turn right and go to Bryn Pydew.    If you had of carried on there instead of turning right you would have seen Marl Farm on your left.
It's really good watching Google Street view, it gets you to see places.
If the North Wales Weekly News isn't online don't worry I'll have a look next week if I can.
I wonder if that address was Victoria Yard?   Although I've never heard of it before there were a number of "yards" in Back Madoc Street years ago. 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 06, 2013, 10:05:28 PM
Hi maybe it is Victoria Yard cannot make  it  out at all
going to see what I can find out this weekend maybe my husband will take me to Llandudno this weekend to look around
Have a good weekend in this lovely sun
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on June 06, 2013, 10:16:30 PM
Victoria Yard was the name of one of the yards in Back Madoc Street.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 06, 2013, 10:31:51 PM
Thanks Cambrian that's a really good find.   Back Madoc Street had loads of businesses going on in the old days.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 12, 2013, 06:23:46 PM
I did have a look in the Archives in Llandudno today but couldn't find an Obituary notice in the North Wales Weekly News for either William Bell Rogerson d1940 or Jane Rogerson d 1961 sorry about that as it may have helped a bit.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 13, 2013, 03:42:15 AM
Hi Hugo I have William Bell Rogerson Obituary notice in Liverpool well it just say death in Liverpool and his money went to Jane Ann Rogerson of £199.00 and not to who he was living with
Been trying to think the last few day But I am hitting a wall lol
 Got no were with my Aunt all she says now is the  white house is on the main road up a bit  meaning higher up then the road is that the Conwy road she say's it is still there and I am saying it gone to her
 &shake&
Going to see my other Aunt in the next few weeks she is :-X so going to be hard but if I ask about her mum she may tell me some think
I hope
 I now know she left pensarn farm age about 3 or 4 she cannot remember the farm only the home that they all went in.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 13, 2013, 10:11:41 AM
I did try to find out more about Marl Hotel or Bron Heulog as it was also called , but had no luck in the Archives.   While Bron Heulog seems to fit the bill with its large staircase there is another large white house on that main road that is still there but I don't know the history of that house.
There was an article in the paper last year about Blodwell Home but it's in the 1950's
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 13, 2013, 05:53:23 PM
Hi will try and find out a bit more when I go and see her
thanks for that Hugo
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 15, 2013, 05:07:38 AM
Anneelaine,  I've been looking at Richard Williams Builders website and noticed that Bron Heulog or Marl Hotel was not demolished until 2004.    It was demolished to make way for the heavy goods yard that it has today, so your Aunt could have been right when she thought that it was still there as it is a fairly recent demolition.
I was hoping that there would be a photo of the old hotel so you could recognise it but sadly I can't find one at present.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 16, 2013, 12:33:53 AM
Hugo that sound good  ;D can I find out who had it around 1940's 
thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on June 16, 2013, 09:04:58 AM
There was a Samuel Owens at 2 Victoria Yard Back Madoc Street in 1929
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 16, 2013, 10:39:03 PM
Hugo
 William bell Rogerson grave stone photo what do's it say at the bottom on the  grave after the William bell cannot make it out  Thanks
Anneelaine
Ps just looking again and I think it's the date  it's got his age 62
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 17, 2013, 10:23:08 AM
It's written in Welsh and says "Fu farw  Chwefror 19  1940  yn 62 mywydd oed"
which in English means " he died February 19th  1940 aged 62"
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 17, 2013, 12:38:51 PM
The first photo is of Carmel Chapel in Chapel Street Conwy, the second of Bron Allt ( house on left)    The third is of Ty Capel or Chapel House with the bit on the left being the Chapel walls.
The final one is of all the properties just to show you how close they all are,
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 17, 2013, 02:34:52 PM
Thanks Hugo JUST hoping there was a Hint any hint lol
 $cool$
 Is the little house the one my dad would have lived in with his address been the church
Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 17, 2013, 02:43:03 PM
Hugo
If I went and asked at the church would they have any info about the caretakers there in the past I know my Dads Mum & Aunt
who lived there his Aunt was married and there was a daughter only know her second name would have been Lewis
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 17, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
I don't know anything about the Chapel but the house at the end of the passage would have been Ty Capel and may have included part of the building on the right of the passage too.
I can't tell you about who to approach either but there may be some forum members who live in the Conwy area who can help.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 17, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
Thanks you one more thing on my list to do lol.
anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on July 13, 2013, 12:51:12 AM
 :D Hi Hugo  been there today a guy give me a phone number say he can remember  Elizabeth  Lewis nee Davies
Also said it was a farmers church
so that made sense
He did not have a lot to do with them because he was a fisherman
so on the right line now
anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on July 14, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
Hi Anneelaine,

Where did you go yesterday, was it to the Chapel in Conwy?    If it was Conwy, then I hope that you enjoyed your time there as it was a beautiful warm day.   I bet the ice cream sales made a bomb yesterday, I know that I had some when I came home from a walk.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on July 15, 2013, 03:23:18 AM
Yes it was the chapel in Conwy it was lovely day I had 2 ice-creams lol
I hope to go to a service there soon maybe I  will find out more then
Found a new name in Jane's family Hughes
so I will keep on looking
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on July 17, 2013, 10:48:52 AM
Good luck with all your research Anneelaine and finding a new name in Jane's family Hughes.    That's a good Welsh name and there are many of us about.     $good$       $walesflag$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 22, 2013, 09:59:51 PM
Hi Anyone know what times Carmel church  in Conwy starts it service on a Sunday Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Trojan on September 02, 2013, 07:09:21 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi Anyone know what times Carmel church  in Conwy starts it service on a Sunday Thanks
Anneelaine

10am on Sundays according to the sign outside.

Carmel Chapel, Conwy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/206611616/#)

(Many thanks to roving photo journalist David Roberts for the photo)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DaveR on September 02, 2013, 07:22:28 PM
Blimey, that's an old one of mine.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 12, 2013, 03:40:17 AM
Many thank guys for all you help lovely photo
Anneelaine $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 12, 2013, 03:54:28 AM
Hi Guys
 Do not know if you can help with this one but i will give it a go ,
been trying now for a few weeks but cannot get anywere :rage:
Owen Davies born 1859 in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy  trying to find who his father was
This is Jane Ann father
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on September 12, 2013, 11:35:53 AM
The 1861 Census should show the father's name and if no one can find the info for you, then I'll have a look in the Library next week

I don't have Ancestry on the laptop but it's free in the Library.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 12, 2013, 10:32:40 PM
Thanks Hugo I don't have Ancestry i can see things and cannot do anythink :rage:
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on September 12, 2013, 11:18:42 PM
Don't worry, mine is by trial and error too.   Let's hope that there are not too many Owen Davies'  b1859 in that area.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on September 13, 2013, 12:40:00 AM
Hi, there is one Owen Davies b 1859 Llansantffraid  on the 1861 census his  family are
 Hugh Davies    34 Ag Lab
Catherine Davies    27
Edward Davies    9
Mary Davies    6
Hugh Davies    4
Owen Davies    2
Anne Davies    3/12
Catherine Davies    3/12
The address is   (what looks like) Brynrodyn, Tre Trallwyn Caernarvonshire -

1871 a farm servant at Maesydd  (?)  Glan Conwy - not with his family, working as a Farm Servant at the age of 12

In 1881 at Mardir (?) farm listed as a joiner unmarried

In 1891 at Rectory Cottage Trefriw listed as a Saer (joiner) with wife and family
Owen Davies    32
Cathrine Davies    32
Hugh Davies    8
Mary C Davies    6
Elizabeth E Davies    2
Jane A Davies    1

In 1901 at Bryn Rodyn Trefriw, occupation Wheelwright
Owen Davies    42
Catherine Davies    44
Hugh Davies    18
Mary C Davies    16
Elizabeth E Davies    13
Jane A Davies    11
Gwilym I Davies    8
Gertrude Davies    5
Thomas O Davies    3

Have not found anything for 1911
   

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: suepp on September 13, 2013, 01:10:14 AM
Incidentally there is a Pensarn and a Pensarn Gate listed in the same enumeration district as the Davies family in 1871
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 13, 2013, 01:44:35 AM
HI Could that mean it has Somethink to do with my family  :D
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 13, 2013, 01:50:04 AM
suepp I think that's him Thank you so much   going to look into it now up all night again i think
 it's southwest of Bangor  $thanx$
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 13, 2013, 11:12:02 PM
 Hi
 I have been looking and asking again and it's still the big white house in the Junction and no Jane Anne Davies did not work in the house
 I asked if Jane had had a child in 1910 she said no says she was a very cleaver  girl and should have gone far,
 only had William in 1916,
 It was a family house .And my aunt had been to it many times before her marriage to my uncle in the 1940's  it's a good job that she cannot remember me asking her all the time about things ,    (she always says the same thing .
so maybe it's Catherine Davies family  ( Owen Davies wife )  Jane's mum family
 that had lived in the white house,?
  I do not know her maiden name  her Birth abt 1859/61 in Eglwysbach, Denbighshire, Wales
so will try and look into that know
Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 28, 2014, 01:55:21 AM
Hi again Just found out to night  the farm at the top of the mountain the farmer was call Owen Jones, And also the farm at the bottom were
Jones to
 I think that farm would have been pensarn farm any help please
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on April 23, 2014, 12:54:40 AM
Hi just found out today that Pensarn farm was my grandmother Jane Anne Rogerson nee Davies brothers farm but do not know who it is  yet
Hugh Davies  ? maybe

Gwilym I Davies  ?  "

Thomas O Davies  ?  "

at long last I have a name "

now the hard work any help please

Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 10, 2014, 04:13:51 AM
Hi I am back again just a few things
 HUGO  you said Having dug about a bit more, it looks to me as if Narrow Lane was at one time called Bryn Derw Lane.  Along the lane before you got to Waenfynydd was a farm called Bryn Derw Farm.  In 1939 it was occupied by a John Richard Davies. This lane starts from Conway Road roughly where Pensarn Farm was.  THIS SOUNDS RIGHT But  :rage:
 You know all I keep feeling was we were walking for ever and as you said Pensarn farm was  not that far from the  Conwy road how far was the Bryne Drew Farm if you were walking? I think we got of the train at the  Junction and pabo lane rings a bell But!!!so long ago

In answer to this we have been thinking at No time did we get told this was Pensarn farm!!! by my Dad but in are heads it was Mmmmm he had  just said it was his  cousins  farm and as we had never heard about any other farm at that age the date is 1967/68  as as far as we new it was Pensarn farm  I asked my sister and she said the same
                 Again it is Davies or Jones
so we were thinking could it have been Bryn Derw Farm
 Right  surname name  Davies we now have 2 names Davies or Jones no Rogerson because WBR had come from Dublin in about 1874 to Wales but WBR  are grandfather was born a round Bangor in 1877  but  worked on  that Pensarn farm and at one time lived on it. But are Auntie still says it was a Davies that had the big white house and says its still high up on the main road  by that pub she  told us  ZXZ
she was always at the house in the 1940's  But she is getting on a bit
Thanks Anneelaine
 D) HUGO i was just going up the roads to see if anything rings a bell and I saw   Tan Y Bryn Farm on top of the hill My uncle has a farm in Australia and he call it called Tan Y Bryn Farm!!!! he was my grandfather brother WBR he was Roger Rogerson  what do you think JUST SAYING
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 10, 2014, 04:52:14 AM
 :D been looking  at  tyn- y -bryn and its 2.1 mi  so would take about a hour to walk maybe thinking if the house was dark gray and very old looking without all the new bits on  it
 it could  look like the house we went to  what do you guys think D)
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 11, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
Anneelaine,  It must be difficult for you looking for these old places especially with only your childhood memories to go on.  It must be about 50 years since you were there and apart from those memories there is little for me to go on, especially as that area around Pensarn has undergone many changes and major redevelopment.   A lot of the old properties have been pulled down or drastically altered over the years so they would now appear different to you.
I don't know that area around Pensarn at all otherwise I could use my local knowledge to help you but I would imagine that there are others on the forum who have that knowledge.
Just to go over things that you have mentioned already, Pensarn Farm is roughly about a mile along the main road from Llandudno Junction railway station.   Now Bryn Derw Farm would have been about a 15 minute walk away uphill from Pensarn Farm but I don't even know if the farm house is still there today.
You mention Tan Y Bryn Farm but the only one I know is the one up the hill in Bryn Pydew but it must be two miles from the Pensarn Farm and I know that in 1966 it was owned by a family called Hughes.  There could of course have been another farm called Tan Y Bryn in the Junction area.
You also mentioned a big white house that is still there on the main road and is near a pub but this is where I can't help you at all as I don't know the history of that area and someone who does may be able to help you.
What I have done today is to go to Llandudno Junction and taken photos of two old large white house on the main road in case they can jog your memory.   There may have been a pub nearby ( within 200 yards) but I can't remember it's name.
I have also taken a photo of Bryn Heulog an old white cottage in Narrow Lane but as I've said I don't know if Bryn Derw is still there
 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 12, 2014, 06:31:36 PM
Anneelaine,  I sent an e-mail to a friend who lives in the Junction about Bryn Derw and the Davies connection and this is his reply which I hope will help in your search:-
"Thanks for your email re Bryn Derw farm the family who lived there were Davies`s but I don't remember who the  father was the son`s name was Bryn and he would be a few years older than me ,he married a girl from the West Shore her surname was Leech and they moved down to the   South East to farm .
Bryn was a paratrooper when he did his national service a tough lad but a very nice man ,his mother married one of the Jolliffs and they sold the farm land for building the original farm house is still there .
I have made a few enquires re the father it seems he was Gwilym , Thomas Davies appears to be Tommy Marl  ( farm ) I don't know if there is any connection family wise."
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 13, 2014, 10:28:57 PM
Anneelaine,  I have had another e-mail from my friend and this is his latest reply:-
"Re Bryn Derw farm I have had a word with my sister she remembers Bryn Davies attending chapel with his mother who was a widow at that time ,she later married a Mr Jolliff , she also thought that there was or is a connection between the Davies’s of Bryn Derw ,and the Davies’s of Marl Farm who I think still farm there "
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: dwsi on November 14, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
Copies of Welsh tithe maps are now available online, this might help with your search http://cynefin.archiveswales.org.uk/ (http://cynefin.archiveswales.org.uk/)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 14, 2014, 01:39:33 PM
Thanks Dwsi that may be very helpful to everyone    $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 15, 2014, 04:53:47 PM
I drove down Narrow Lane in Llandudno Junction today and stopped to take a photo of Bryn Derw, the old Farm that Anneelaine mentioned.
Although I've seen the building many times as I've driven past I never knew what it was.
It's right on the spot where the road narrows and is now actually in the car park of the Welsh Assembly building.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on February 23, 2015, 08:27:15 AM
Anneelaine,   I'm posting this just in case you come back to the forum.   I had a very interesting chat on Friday with someone familiar with the area and the Davies family.
It is a big family and they had a few farms in the area above Pensarn Farm.    Pensarn Farm I believe was also owned by the Davies family and from there, there is a public footpath going uphill but I think that you would have gone up Narrow Lane on the way to your relations house.
You would have passed Bryn Gwyn Farm on your way up and the four properties owned by the Davies are all within about 200 yards of each other and are Marl Farm, Marl Bach, Maes Glas and Segyryn Farm and on the headland you saw.
I don't think it was Marl Farm (too big) or Marl Bach which is just an old ruin and I don't think that it is Maes Glas either.     It could be Segyryn Farm from the description you gave but it would be virtually unrecognisable to you now.  It has been greatly extended and sympathetically modernised and is a lovely building now.
Can you remember if it had dormer windows when you went to that building you described?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on March 02, 2015, 10:44:34 PM
I've just had a look at the O/S maps for 1888- 1895 on the web site British History online and put Llandudno Junction in on the search.
What I found surprised me and I am no longer sure which farm Anneelaine's relatives lived in.
The Pensarn Farm I found was in the parish of Llangystennin, Caernarfonshire and was near where Richard Williams builders merchants is nowadays.
Pen Sarn in English means head or top of the causeway and there is an ancient way called Sarn Y Mynach or Monks Causeway in English and this goes from Richard Williams place to the Black Cat roundabout.
However in the old O/S map there is another property at the other end of the causeway and it was also caused Pensarn.   Both names are correct because of their location but the one that was by the Black Cat Garage was in the parish of Llansanffraid and was in Denbighshire.
Because of what Anneelaine originally said I think that we have the right farm but from what someone has told me the Davies family may also have owned the other one in Denbighshire.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on March 04, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Anneelaine,    I took the photo of Sgyryn Farm yesterday (you can see the gable end on the right) and think that it may be the one you went to as a child.    Members of the Davies family previously lived there and I was told that it was regarded as a place where the family met up.
If it's the one that you went to it would have looked different to this recent photo.   The rendering on the house would have been different but on the entrance to the lane going uphill there was a large grass triangle in the middle with the lanes going either side of it.    I don't know when that changed to a single lane but I can remember seeing the large glass triangle.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on March 04, 2015, 09:23:24 PM
My wife's mother's family (mother-in-law was a Jones) had links to some of the places mentioned on this thread - Marl Farm, Snottyn Farm (possibly later changed to Ffarm Tyddyn), Seguryn and Maes Glas, also Penbont and Pencreuddyn, plus others in the Llangwstenin area.  The Jones family had a lot of children around the period 1880 to 1960, two brothers emigrated to Kansas in 1910 taking most of their kids with them, my wife's grandfather was one the eldest children and stayed here.  There is a link to the Davies family at Marl Farm, as one of the Jones girls married a Davies - Tommy (Tomi Marl) Davies, mentioned earlier, being one of the offspring.

Quite a few of the family are buried in Llangwstenin churchyard.

Hopefully anneelaine is looking in and can come up with some names from that period and see if they match up.  I have drawn up quite a bit of the family tree, based on information from my mother-in-law.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on April 03, 2015, 11:10:03 AM
Office for sale        £139,500  (£116.64/sq. ft)   
.Bryn Derw, 2 Narrow Lane, Llandudno Junction         1,196 sq. ft*

According to Zoopla  the old farm of Bryn Derw has now come on the market and is advertised as an office.


 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on April 20, 2015, 11:07:05 PM
Anneelaine,   Someone very kindly let me have a copy of this very old photo of Esgyryn Farm.   I don't know the date of the photo but it is old and the Davies family are gathered outside the building.  The house   did not have dormers then,they must have been added later! the white part to the left was a lean-to shed where they kept their cart!
I don't know if this is the building that you went to in the 1960's but it was a place where the various Davies family met at and it did have rendering over the stonework before the present owners moved in
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 26, 2017, 12:52:24 AM
Hi back on again looking
Just found this
 in the 1911 Wales Census

View
 

Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:
Wm Bell Rogerson
Age in 1911:
1
Estimated birth year:
abt 1910
Relation to Head:
Son
Gender:
Male
Birth Place:
Llangystenin, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llangwstenin
Search Photos:
Search for 'Llangwstenin' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island:
Caernarvonshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Registration district:
Conway
Registration District Number:
632
Sub-registration district:
Llandudno
ED, institution, or vessel:
08
Household schedule number:
160
Piece:
34543
Household Members:
Name
Age
William Hill Rogerson
32
Mary Rogerson
30
Edith May Rogerson
4
Hannah Mary Rogerson
2
Wm Bell Rogerson


Thinking back
It  looked like a old farm house with four old looking windows with a lot of green In front off it I can see some sheep in the garden one with a broken back
I can see a guy about 55 That was a bit odd I was only young  we had tea and then took back to the station to go home Was told it was my Dad cousin
 But the guy I do not know never told who it was
 This guy I think was William Bell Rogerson born 1910
 No one never spoke about him did not know off him
 Found out he passed away in 1985 in Llandudno
The other guy on this is my grandfather age32 its not hill but bell  Mary Rogerson Passed away in 1917 Then he married my Grandma also in 1917 Anne Jane Davies She had farms in her family in around the same place
 But when she married William she got cut out  off the  will and family
Thats it  THANKS Hugo for your help
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 26, 2017, 01:36:56 AM
Well Hugo I think its time to Give up I think Just going over and over Thank you so much for you Help my family the Rogerson would not say a word Ask my dad and he would just say No No keep away
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on September 26, 2017, 10:49:34 AM
Thanks Anneelaine,   there are some mysteries that we can't resolve and perhaps this is one of them and will have to be put to bed.

It's a shame really because there are a lot of Davies' in the Llandudno Junction area with links to a farming background.    I can think of 5 farms within a radius of less than 2 miles from Pensarn Farm that have connections with the Davies family.     I am also reliably informed that the Davies family members would meet at Esgyryn Farm  (pictured)  and I've a feeling that some forum members may be related to you but the link hasn't been established.

It would seem that there is a black secret hiding here and lots of families have them and sometimes it has been done to protect the feelings of others
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: squigglev2 on September 26, 2017, 12:00:32 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
1969 - Farms/Farmers with the name Davies:

Farms and Riding Stables:
 Robert Davies  Penlan Farm Glanwydden,
T Davies Fron Farm, Bryn Pydew,
T Davies Marl Farm, Llan Jct.
Farmers
D. Davies Maes Cadwgan Farm  Conwy
 D Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden
T Davies, Bryn Euryn Farm Rhos-on-Sea
Pensarn Farm doesn't appear to be listed, but I've not yet looked in the Street listings

Doesn’t help with the quest but just for info, it was the Rawlingson family at Fron Farm in 1969. Glyn ran the farm but I think it belonged to “Tom Marl”
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on September 26, 2017, 01:48:41 PM
Thanks for that info squiggles but unless anything else crops up then I think that there is nothing else we can do, the only breakthrough would appear to be local knowledge.

Speaking of which, I have just had a quick and interesting phone call from someone who has promised to phone me back some time.    He has been reading your posts and may be able to fill in any missing pieces of the jigsaw.     Just watch this space       $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 26, 2017, 05:25:09 PM
 :D O thank you so Much made my day
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 27, 2017, 02:27:08 AM
Hi
Just thinking Maybe it was William Bell First wife family farm, Mary Rogerson  got a feeling her maiden name was Davies will try to find out.
          Then after her death
  William married again the farm was taken from him and  he
  became  just a worker on this farm and he worked  here till around after 1926
when he left his wife
        and the family was put into a home
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 27, 2017, 02:43:14 AM
right
 No her name was Mary Jones his second wife was  Davies $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on September 27, 2017, 12:58:17 PM
Squiggles, the person hasn't phoned me back yet but he has been reading the thread on the old Swan and can contribute to that so I'll post anything I get to know in that topic
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: squigglev2 on September 27, 2017, 01:05:18 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Squiggles, the person hasn't phoned me back yet but he has been reading the thread on the old Swan and can contribute to that so I'll post anything I get to know in that topic

Thanks Hugo. I'll look forward to that.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 06, 2017, 08:01:16 PM
Hugo ,
Do you know why I can look for old deeds on farms
  In or a round Llandudno Please.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 06, 2017, 10:25:50 PM
Anneelaine,  I'm sorry but I've no idea what you should be looking for or where you can find them

Cambrian has experience of that so perhaps he can point you in the right direction
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 07, 2017, 08:29:59 AM
Looking for deeds can be a bit hit and miss.  Now that most land is being recorded via the Land Registry, once an entry has been made traditional deeds are no longer so important.  Occasionally, Solicitors will deposit material with the Archives or National Library.  In amongst these collections you may find old epitomes of title which record all the changes of ownership down the ages.  Sometimes deeds of property which has been registered can be found also old leases and mortgages which can provide useful clues.

It may be possible to access the Land Registry itself but I am not sure I copies of original documents are available.  Best to check on the Land Registry website. 

Many of the farms on the Creuddyn peninsula were on Mostyn land so records of tenancies may be available at the various County Archives is the estate had deposited material.  Most early Mostyn records are in the Flintshire Archives at Hawarden.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 08, 2017, 01:35:52 AM
Thank you for that Cambrian Will see what I can find out on Mon  D)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 08, 2017, 02:41:08 AM
Hi
Found out a bit more tonight
Looks like the son off William bell Was not living on the farm in 1968
 So now who  was the other guy on the farm that day
 Never NO I think
Anyway  William Bell in 1939 was living in Llandudno UD
 with a Owen Owen so that would be my great grandmother daughters husband
Thanks
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 16, 2017, 04:59:42 AM
Hi .
Just been looking around and with some of the things you all said
 I found a postcode LL28 5LE and it  just across the road from the Black cat that I was going on about could not believe it
I feel I know the place
was this where pensarn Farm was Mmmm I got a feeling but yet again could be wrong. :o
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 16, 2017, 05:20:17 AM
Just one more thing by the Black cat is a large white house could this be the house my aunt was on about
 She kept saying its by the black cat
it just goes with the Rogerson at the top farm and the others at the bottom Just thinking Thanks guys
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 16, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
Anneelaine,  you could be on to something here and may have solved it yourself.  Like any research you do need positive proof and it has been difficult to get that.

However, if I could just explain this first so you can be aware of what has happened already:-
From the Black Cat area to Llandudno Junction (over the Railway Bridge) was called the Monk's Causeway and the area in Llandudno Junction is known as Pensarn

In English Pensarn is the top or head of the causeway.      I've found Pensarn Farm on the Llandudno Junction side and we know that it was in the Parish of Llangystennin however today I've looked at a map of the 1880's and it also shows a Pensarn Farm on the Black Cat side of the causeway and this could be the one you are seeking.
Was that farm in Llangystennin Parish?  At present I'm not positive but perhaps someone on here can tell us one way or
another.

Anyway,  I've been to have a look in that area and the first building on the right going up the hill is a very old building, it has other smaller buildings in the yard but is completely private and shielded from the public view.   There is no name on the building, no front door, just a large wooden gate and protected by one or two noisy guard dogs so I kept well away.

I've taken some photos for you but there may be other forum members who may be able to put some name or history to the place.     Further up the hill is a large white house called Castle Keep and next too it on the main road is another property with a number of stone steps going up to it.   

I've just had a look at the postcode you have supplied LL28 5LE  and there are just 3 properties coming up for that and they are Castle Keep, Maes Glas and  Sarn Y Mynach .    I'm thinking that the house on the corner with the ivy on it is called Sarn Y Mynach but that's just my guess.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 16, 2017, 12:58:36 PM
I've gone on Google and found the proof of the Pensarn Farm by the Black Cat Roundabout and this is an extract from the article:-



Afon Ganol : Glan Conwy & Sarn-y-Mynach
In Norman Tucker’s book, he commented that the antiquarian John Leland,
writing in Henry VIII’s time, wrote about the Credine [Creuddyn]…
.Credine-a commote of Cairarvonshire a this side Conwey River. This commote
partely be Conwey River partely by the se is yn a manner as innsulatid,and one
way owte of Denbigh land the way is over a made causeway over a marsh often
overflown’7
.
This reference to a causeway suggests that Leland was referring to the Sarn-yMynach
(Monk’s causeway) ….which would be from Pen Sarn (farm opposite
Black Cat filling station) across to Pen Sarn & Tal y Sarn in Llandudno Junction.
The name Sarn-y- Mynach is thought to refer to a causeway that the monks had
built across the marshes of the Afon Ganol valley,

This is a very interesting link from the Deganwy History Group

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj4-dzyhfXWAhVFXhoKHfKEB74QFggmMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.deganwyhistory.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FAfon-ganol.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2BtYoOBlv1mZ3z3WJUAjdg (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj4-dzyhfXWAhVFXhoKHfKEB74QFggmMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.deganwyhistory.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FAfon-ganol.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2BtYoOBlv1mZ3z3WJUAjdg)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 16, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Pensarn Farm (later called Sarn y Mynach) has always been in the parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conwy on the Denbighshire side of the Afon Ganol.
I am not sure when the name was changed.
As an aside, Llandudno UDC built a booster station adjacent to Colwyn Bay Council's sub-station in 1938.  This was a "modern" looking building alongside the old Conway Road (now part of the A55 approach works) and was demolished about 20 years ago.  It was known as Sarn y Mynach Pumping Station.
The large white house could well be Bryn Eisteddfod which overlooks the area.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 16, 2017, 03:42:55 PM
Was that brown brick building the old pumping station?     If it was then I remember trains stopping there in the 50's
Bryn Eisteddfod looks like a very impressive place and if it was licensed in Annieelaine's  early years then this might be the place where the older folk went up the hill for a drink
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 16, 2017, 04:18:04 PM
Anneelaine,   just an add on to my previous posts, I did manage a peep through the high wooden gate before those dogs frightened the life out of me.    There are two other buildings in the yard but the one that interested me was the one on the left of the big house, it's a single storey small cottage with one window and a door at the far end.
The gable end of that cottage is facing the road.

If you look at my third photo and see a cream coloured wall, the cottage is behind that wall and faces the bigger two storey cottage.
What made me interested in it was because it was very similar to the photo you posted on page 3 this search.
Is this the cottage, I wonder?       ?{}?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 16, 2017, 05:12:32 PM
No, Hugo.  The brown building was a Ministry of Food buffer depot built around 1942.  I have a vague memory of seeing railway vans in the sidings there in the 1950s as well.  I also believe a platoon of US soldiers was stationed there in the huts to guard the place during the war.

The pumping station was quite a smart single story flat-roofed building about the length of a pair of semis. I heard that the concrete base fractured during piling works to build the flyover (A55) and a decision was taken to demolish it.  The door, which faced Pensarn, had the prominent wording "Llandudno UDC Waterworks" carved in concrete above. 

Regarding Bryn Eisteddfod, I think you have seen a coachman's cottage.  I don't recall ever hearing it was licensed as pub though.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 16, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
Thanks Cambrian for that info about the Ministry of Food depot, my next door neighbour worked there and I definitely remember the train I was on,  stopping there sometime in the 1950's.
I don't know much about Bryn Eisteddfod other than what I read today and it mentioned a license but I don't know when the license was granted.

That house is strange though, there was a car in the yard but there was no entry into the place apart from past those guard dogs and I was not going to chance it
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 16, 2017, 06:57:32 PM
 ;DHi
The black cat roundabout the road going up to Bryn y Mean may sound daft but I can see my Dad walking up the road  here and the house  as you are just going up I know it
 but it looks bigger and I have been inside but do not know why
The cottage you may be right  :o Thank you all
 could not have found out so much without you guys it means
so much to me
 Now find out who was the owner  of the farm
 in 1968
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 17, 2017, 10:19:50 AM
This is an aerial photo of how Pensarn Farm looks like now.   The main building is the first one and then there is an opening but it's the second building on the main road that caught my attention.  It's very similar to the one in the photo on pg 3 of this topic
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: rhuddlan on October 17, 2017, 02:53:45 PM
Here is a pic of my 1947 OS map. Pensarn is shown on the LL J side as is the Llan of LLangwstenin .
I don't know if this helps at all!
Sadly this is another example of why I don't post often! All my pics seem to change position. Perhaps
a moderator can adjust it the correct way and maybe explain why. It seems at least one other contributor has the same problem.
Incidentally the pic was taken on an android phone.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 17, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sadly this is another example of why I don't post often! All my pics seem to change position. Perhaps
a moderator can adjust it the correct way and maybe explain why. It seems at least one other contributor has the same problem.
Incidentally the pic was taken on an android phone.

In my humble opinion, I think that your picture postings are just due to jetlag.   Too many foreign holidays and you'll miss another walk again when you jet off  soon.      ;D

I'm sure though that Ian or Dave will work their magic on the photo for you.

The area from the Black Cat roundabout to the spot where Richard Williams Builders Merchants  in Llandudno Junction is, was called the Monks Causeway.     At either end of the causeway were two farms and they were both called Pensarn Farm and that is where the problem arises.

The one by Richard Williams was in the Parish of Llangystennin but the one at the other end of the causeway wasn't.   From what Anneelaine has said though it might be the one by the Black Cat roundabout that she has the childhood memories of.
I think that it could be that too and may go back there to take a photo of the place.       I'll get Tellytubby to act as a decoy and let the guard dogs chase him while I take  photos of the other buildings.           8)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 17, 2017, 09:34:36 PM
Looking again at the photo and thinking about it I think you could be right because the girl Hannah looks about the age that everyone was still at pensarn farm ,and the little one looks like my dad at that time all lived at the farm
.If it was my Dads cousin in 1968 I would think the name could be Davies just came to me , cannot think it would be Rogerson or Owen maybe wrong
 All Left the farm a round 1928 when William  Rogerson left and went to Liverpool and the younger ones went into a home But a Aunt told us that there's  2 farms 1at the top  she may be mixed up
Thanks for photos enjoy looking at them $good$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 17, 2017, 10:38:02 PM
Anneelaine,   The Davies' were a well known farming family and either owned or tenanted a number of farms in that area.
A lot were on the Llandudno Junction side of the railway and also some on the other side.

I haven't got the answers you are looking for but I've enclosed two photos for you and also to show my fellow walking friend Rhuddlan  the location of the two Pensarn Farms.
These were taken of an O/S map from the late 1880's to the early 1890's

The first is a photo of the map and in the second photo I have ringed in red the two farms.    Only the farm by the Black Cat now remains.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 17, 2017, 11:55:05 PM
 :o    2  farms one at the top the other bottom well well I thing we may have done it
So with the name Davies I need to look for a child thank you so much
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 18, 2017, 12:04:05 AM
Hugo cannot fined the name of the road where the farm was near the black cat  $thanx$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 18, 2017, 08:41:10 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hugo cannot fined the name of the road where the farm was near the black cat  $thanx$

Look at the map with the two farms circled in red and concentrate on the bottom one.
The road to the right is the main road and it goes up to the second farm at the top.   This is Conway Road the A547

To the left of the bottom farm is the A470 and that was also called Conway Road.

From the bottom farm you can see a lane going down in the picture and that is the B5381  which locals call the Bryn Y Maen Road.     That is actually the narrow lane going uphill to the big white house which is called Bryn Eisteddfod

Hope that you can make some sense out of all that
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 19, 2017, 10:36:22 PM
Thanks for that, $thanx$

seeing what I have got to do next now
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 26, 2017, 06:07:28 PM
Anneelaine,    I have just received an e-mail from a friend who lives in Llandudno Junction and this is what he has told me,    Hope that it may help with your search


"I have obtained some information for you re Pensarn Farm  ( sarn y mynach ) .

The lady that lived there from1940`s until her death in about 1970 `s not certain about this date was a Mary Davies ,I have no further details other than the name and she was unmarried ,  again I cant confirm this ."
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 31, 2017, 03:49:19 AM
Mary Davies rings a bell  Thanks for that Looking into it today
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 31, 2017, 06:29:07 PM
Hello
I have been looking around and found this The last time we saw Mary Davies was in June 1968
PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Attach to Family Tree

Mary Davies
BillionGraves Index
Name
Mary Davies
Event T
Death Date
1968
ype
Burial
Event Place
Conwy, Conwy, Wales, United Kingdom
Cemetery
Saint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno
1968 was the last time we ever went up to the farm
Anneelaine

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 01, 2017, 10:15:47 PM
  My Gran was Jane Anne Davies   Born in 1890 In Bryn Rodyn, Trefriw, Conwy, LL27 0NJ and it's up for sale
 See what I can find out now
 To join up with Mary Davies I now she was a cousin
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 02, 2017, 01:55:00 AM
can anyone make this out please can read part of it
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 02, 2017, 02:46:45 AM
sorry got this wrong  I have now read it  not the right grave but names and right age
 also
 but the mary in this grave has a son with her age 15  O well a long night again
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 02, 2017, 04:41:16 PM
That won't be your Mary as the address is also wrong too.

I had a look at billion dollar graves for Mary Davies and saw where the grave was indicated in the Cemetery but I'm afraid that the indication is wrong as I had a look at the spot today.

In the same row at the end,  is a grave for a Mary Davies and other family members but although that Mary died in 1968 there is no proof that she is your relative.  Another puzzle is why would Mary be buried in St Tudno's and not Llanrhos or Glan Conwy?

I had a look in Roots UK and there was a Mary Jones who died in 1968 and the death was registered in the Conwy District in the quarter Apr to June 1968

Just one point though, we don't know for certain when your Mary died as my friend wasn't sure
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 02, 2017, 08:36:06 PM
Hi thank you
I know now I need to come to Llandudno next week to do some digging
My Gran is in St Agnes Conwy  by  herself that is so sad Granddad is in
 llangystenin with his first wife
I know what I have to do  I  am at 3 am just looking for something need to do it put it to bed
Thank you all
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 02, 2017, 09:17:47 PM
Hugo,

My Dad did have a cousin  in   (Davies)
 St Tudno's He told me a few times
 But he never said who it was and cannot think what year it was
  was it before 1968 !!! I never know
Hugo Thank you so much for photos
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 02, 2017, 10:12:36 PM
Anneelaine,     we have a photo of the headstone of a Mary Davies who died in 1968 and I did find a death of a Mary Davies registered in Conwy in the quarter April to June 1968 but we know nothing about this person at present.

However, there is a possibility that I can find out who she was providing there was an obituary notice in a 1968 edition of the North Wales Weekly News.

At present I'm extremely busy with work going on at home and don't know when I can get to the Archives next but I will try asap.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 02, 2017, 11:00:17 PM
Hugo,
 its fine
          anytime been doing this forever it feels
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 03, 2017, 11:59:42 PM
Hi
Just looked at the photo of me on the way to the farm
 as we are moving house and found the photo box
   I think its more like 1966 or 67
 I changed after that and cannot see me going with my mum and dad to the farm only look young
             Just had1968 in my mind
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 13, 2017, 08:07:52 PM
I looked at the North Wales Weekly News for 1968 but could not find an obituary notice for a Mary Davies so she is still a mystery.  Something may turn up from my friend in the Junction but at the moment things look like they have come to a halt.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 14, 2017, 12:13:55 AM
Hi,
Thank you.
Mary Davies, I have just been told is in Llangysternin Churchyard the same place as my grandad But!!
              Also, the other Farm may Have been Tan Y Bryn 
My cousin named his farm in Australia  The same name  (Tan Y Bryn)
 his Dad Gordon Rogerson,
His father was Roger Rogerson, Lived
 in Llangysternin Brother to my William Bell Rogerson
I know a lot of farms are called this Been told a few are in Llangysternin.
Thanks
Anneelaine

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 14, 2017, 09:19:41 AM
It makes sense that Mary Davies from Sarn Y Mynach was buried in Llangystennin Church as she obviously had family connections with that Parish.
If she had a grave with a headstone then her grave in Llangystennin would be on the Burial Index at the Archives.

As regards Tan Y Bryn,  there are two that I know of in Pydew, one is near St Catherine's Church and the other further down Bryn Pydew Road but on the opposite side of the road.

As I've said on here before a family called Hughes lived in one of them in the 1960's  but I don't know who lived in the other.     Both are a very long walk away from Llandudno Junction railway station and would have taken you ages to walk there and back as a young child so we'll never know for certain where exactly you visited on that one day.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 14, 2017, 12:10:05 PM
Hello,
 No the farm we went to was Pensarn. for sure
Thanks Hugo

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 14, 2017, 12:24:20 PM
That's good Anneelaine,   Tan Y Bryn is quite far from Pensarn Farm too.   I don't know if those little legs of yours would have made it to Tan Y Bryn.

I took a photo of your Granddad's grave (see photo) but at the time didn't know about Mary Davies but I'll follow that up and post it on here.    The grave looks well maintained so someone must be looking after it
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 15, 2017, 06:11:21 PM
Tan Y Bryn in Bryn Pydew is up for sale.         Is that the one or not,  we'll have to find out


http://smithandwypler.co.uk/property-details/26259500 (http://smithandwypler.co.uk/property-details/26259500)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 16, 2017, 09:14:26 AM
I had an e-mail from my friend last night and he said that the lady living at Sarn Y Mynach was Maria Davies and not Mary Davies as first thought.
He is still trying to get more info but said that it will take time.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 16, 2017, 12:44:15 PM
The name Maria Davies should be a lot easier to trace than Mary Davies so I tried Roots UK  and only one came up that fits the bill.      That Maria was born1892 and her death was registered in the St Asaph District in the quarter Jul- Sept 1967.    I wonder if this is the same person?

Cambrian,  you're the expert on these type of things and I remember from previous posts that deaths in Glan Conwy were registered in Conwy District many years ago.
There have been changes since but in 1967 would deaths in the Black Cat roundabout area be registered in St Asap?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 28, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
Maria.who I have never heard about
                 Has got to be some relation
 The old lady on the farm was my dads his cousin So its got to be her
 but where from
 it must have been the last time we went up to the farm may 1967.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on November 28, 2017, 08:35:24 PM
I'll see what I can find in the Archives but it won't be before next week
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on February 14, 2018, 04:54:08 PM
I'm sorry but I haven't been able to find out any more about Maria.   

Some time ago you posted that a Mr Rogerson's wife  was called Davies prior to getting married but that she was not in touch with that side of the family but didn't know the reason for it

I was browsing through the Conwy Archives online catalogue and saw this article and thought that you might like to see it

Cyfernod / Ref No CPS1/2/3/48/35
Teitl / Title Defendant: Mary Ann Rogerson
Ddisgrifiad / Description Mary Ann Rogerson of M[arle]bach, near Conway.
Charged with Breaking and Entering the dwelling house of John Davies and stealing one pound in weight of mutton belonging to him.
Witness statements from John Davies of M[arle]bach, a working Gardener; Evan Roberts, a Police Constable at Tywyn; John Davies of Deganwy, a Labourer (Son of John Davies of M[arle]bach) and Mary Ann Rogerson.
Verdict: Dismissed.
Dyddiad / Date 26/5/1902
Graddau / Extent 12 

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on February 25, 2018, 03:16:43 AM
Wow that is a good find O dear but very sad
That would be a great Aunt of mine or my great grandmother Mmmm My gt grandfather pass away after  my grandfather  was born  and left her with nothing she was about 38 years younger than him
where had all his money gone he was a very very rich man I know he lost a lot  around 1864 in London
But to come to that
Yes his wife was called Jane Anne Davies
Thank you
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 05, 2018, 01:04:25 AM
 ;D
Hi,all
May have found something or maybe not.
This is my Great grandmother  Catherine Davies Nee Hughes
Name:
Cathrine Davies
Age:
47
Estimated birth year:
abt 1834
Relation:
Wife
Spouse's Name:
Hugh Davies
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Llangystenyn, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llansantffraid Glan Conway - Tre Trallwyn
County/Island:
Denbighshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Mardir Farm
Condition as to marriage:
Married
Education:
View image
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:
Conway
Sub registration district:
Creuddyn
ED, institution, or vessel:
7
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
5582
Folio:
125
Page Number:
3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Hugh Davies
53
Cathrine Davies
47
Hugh Davies
24
Owen Davies
22
Elizabeth Davies
8
Ellin Davies
6
She got married in Name:
Cathrine Davies
Age:
47
Estimated birth year:
abt 1834
Relation:
Wife
Spouse's Name:
Hugh Davies
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Llangystenyn, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llansantffraid Glan Conway - Tre Trallwyn
County/Island:
Denbighshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Mardir Farm
Condition as to marriage:
Married
Education:
View image
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:
Conway
Sub registration district:
Creuddyn
ED, institution, or vessel:
7
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
5582
Folio:
125
Page Number:
3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Hugh Davies
53
Cathrine Davies
47
Hugh Davies
24
Owen Davies
22
Elizabeth Davies
8
Ellin Davies
6
She got married in Llangystenyn,in 1851
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 05, 2018, 01:47:49 AM
 :o ;) D)
maybe not far offffff
Name   Cathrine Hughes
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1851
Event Place   Llangystenin, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Registration District   Conway
Gender   Female
Age   16
Marital Status   Unmarried
Occupation   Farmers Daughter Employed At Home
Relationship to Head of Household   Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated)   1835
Birthplace   Llangystenin, Carnarvonshire
Page Number   2
Registration Number   HO107
Piece/Folio   2519 / 231
Affiliate Record Type
omg I am not far off I beleave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 05, 2018, 01:51:52 AM
my grandfather but what the name of the farm lol Jane Anne Davies Grandad
S  :o so happy
Owen Hughes
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name:   Owen Hughes
Event Type:   Census
Event Date:   1851
Event Place:   Llangystenin, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Registration District:   Conway
Gender:   Male
Age:   52
Marital Status:   Married
Occupation:   Farmer (Of 19) Acres
Relationship to Head of Household:   Head
Birth Year (Estimated):   1799
Birthplace:   Llangystenin, Carnarvonshire
Page Number:   2
Registration Number:   HO107
Piece/Folio:   2519 / 231
Affiliate Record Type:   Household
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 05, 2018, 02:22:50 AM
I think i have a name it looks like  HENDRE   Llangystenin,?
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on March 05, 2018, 01:32:59 PM
Hi Anneelaine

Yes, Hendre is a farm at the southern end of the parish of Llangwstennin.  If you follow the minor road from Pensarn in a north easterly direction you will come to it just beyond the point where the road does a sharp right hand bend.

At the time of the Enclosure Awards in 1843, Hendre was a holding of 94 acres, 3 roods and 1 perch.  It was in the ownership of Thomas Peers Williams (1795 - 1875).  He was the owner of the Marl Estate and lived in Anglesey.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 06, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
Hi guys please help
Grave A033
‘Yma mae’n gorwedd gorph WILLIAM, mab OWEN HUGHES o Ben y Ffordd.  Bu farw … o Fawrth 1837 ei oed 21.  Hefyd ANN, gwraig OWEN HUGHES Pen y Ffordd Yr hon a fu farw Ebrill 2ed 1859 yn 68 oed. Hefyd OWEN HUGHES yr hwn a fu farw Gorphenaf 19eg 1872 yn 77 mlwydd oed.  Hefyd ALICE, gwraig ROBERT HUGHES Pen y Ffordd Bu farw Hydref 20 1908 yn 85 mlwydd oed.
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 06, 2018, 08:50:59 PM
Got it it was in English lower down
Do not think its the right grave
o well keep going
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on March 07, 2018, 12:01:32 AM
 $good$ Hi
Been thinking
 came to me last night ,
Well how can the farm up the hill be a Rogerson no way can it be
 so when my Aunt said you are the Rogerson from up the hill
 I been told I look like my Grandmother  (my Aunt she was in her 90's  at the time )
so when she saw me maybe she saw Jane Ann Rogerson  nee Davies came to her mind
Gordon Rogerson William B bother was in Australia and Roger was in Liverpool
So the farms I would think would be Davies or Hughes because only WB was in Conwy apart from his sister who never married and his mother Mary Rogerson
             Apart from the farm WB had Pensarn farm  around 1907 to about 1928
need to rethink now
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 11, 2018, 04:58:16 PM
I was looking through the Llandudno Wedding Banns at the Archives   ( ref CEP 17/1/15      1894 TO 1934 )   and came across this entry which I thought that you might like to see:-

No 166    (Welsh)
William Rogerson in the Parish of Llangystenin   Widower
Jane Anne Davies in Llandudno Parish  spinster
1st   Bann     22/7/ 1917
2nd     "        29/7/191
3rd      "         5/8/1917-
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 13, 2018, 03:13:11 PM
Hugo,
Where would I go to look up about farms in past times? in Llandudno.
would you believe it we are looking at a house to buy in Conwy
do not know where that came from
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 13, 2018, 03:41:26 PM
Anneelaine,   I'm sorry but I can't help you about farms in past times but there may be others on the forum who can advise you.,    Good luck with your house hunting, it's a nice area to live in.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on June 13, 2018, 07:03:38 PM
There are a few possibilities but could need a fair amount of time to research.  A good place to start would be the Tithe Records which were compiled for each parish in the 19th Century. The County Archives has most of these.  It would be fairly easy to identify farms and small holdings by the amount of land associated with the tenant or landowner.  The Town Directories are also a source of information. Census records available up to 1911 will show the trade or calling of the head of household. 

If you had a specific area in mind I am sure one or more of us on the Forum would be able to give some help or further pointers.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 13, 2018, 07:23:44 PM
A friend sent me this link which may help.   I don't know enough about this subject but Anneelaine may be looking for Tan Y Bryn and the Rogerson connection.  There are two in Pydew but the name is fairly common in N Wales


https://places.library.wales/
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 13, 2018, 11:33:20 PM
Thank you all for the help you have given me.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 19, 2018, 02:55:30 AM
Hi Hugo,
I think I may have found who was on Pernsarn Farm in 1968 It had to be a Davies looking at it now my Dads cousin, not a maria but mary also my dad said about his cousin been buried Saint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno been looking and maybe think this could be her.
Name Mary Davies Birth Date1893 Date1968 Cemetery NameSaint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno I need to do a little more digging I think
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 19, 2018, 03:33:24 AM
Forget what I just said please  the rest of names wrong on  the  grave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 19, 2018, 04:33:36 AM
Hi back again been speaking to my sister  and we both said now  we were never told we were at Pensarn farm
just at  my dad's cousins farm but both of us thinking because where it was it was pensarn farm may sound daft
 we no the road  feels right but we both feel it was a lot longer walk as we been in Conwy in the car today going to do the walk from LJ station to the farm in a few weeks   and see how that feels
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 19, 2018, 10:43:06 PM
That postcode that you supplied was for the farm Sarn Y Mynach by the Black Cat roundabout but I hope that that you enjoy the walk and you find something.   
That area has changed a lot since your childhood and it may be that you'll just have to settle for those childhood memories
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 19, 2018, 11:52:12 PM
I think your right Hugo thank you
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 20, 2018, 12:50:11 AM
Just one more thing been speaking to my sister about us looking at Pensarn farm  yesterday  well I think we were looking at it lol
She said it to low down it took us about an hour to walk if any I would say the farm we went to was Tan Y Bryn Farm
Bryn Pydew but how could it be
 I wish I could find the 2 photo I had
 O well you have all been a great help cannot thank you enough
just wishing I knew what made my dad so unhappy, not to speak about his life.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on June 20, 2018, 11:58:41 AM
Anneelaine,   I can't remember exactly who you said your father was but there is a definite connection of the Rogerson's to Pensarn Farm Llangystenin.

I've reposted a photo I took of a grave in Llangystenin Church some years ago and the inscription is in Welsh but this is what it's translated to in English
Mary Rogerson, dear wife of William Rogerson Pensarn Farm Llangystenin died 21st January 1917      Also

Catherine Ellen dear child of the above who died October 27th 1918 aged 1 year and 9 months old      Also

William Bell Rogerson died February 19th 1940 aged 62

Just looking at that and the dates involved I'm guessing that Mary died after giving birth to Catherine Ellen which is so sad and especially so that Catherine Ellen died a short time later
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on June 20, 2018, 09:08:51 PM
Thank you Hugo ,
 He married my grandmother about 9 months later  1917 and that's when it all started
 my gran (Jane Ann Davies) was cast out from the family
                  He was on the farm with his first wife at first.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on July 09, 2018, 06:13:50 PM
I was looking at the Llangystenin Baptism record for another forum member and came across a Baptism for the Rogerson family.
The information on the Register is as follows:-

No 241   Born 7/6/1901   Baptised 19th Jan 1906    Mary Agnes    daughter to Mary Ann Rogerson     1 Margaret St   ( I couldn't read the address properly but that's what it looked like )
So Mary Agnes Rogerson was an illegitimate child

I thought that I'd enclose the details for you
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on July 25, 2018, 04:22:53 PM
Hugo Thanks for that Mmm O dear I am back looking now THANK YOU SO MUCH
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 11, 2018, 12:31:12 AM
Hugo,
I took this photo to my aunt the other day
 she looked away from it when I gave it to her
 she  looked a bit upset so did not say anymore
Do you know the name of the house please it looks a lot like the house I was telling you about
 but without the side bits and  moving the front door to the right place
 so I can look up on for a name on 1939
Thanks you
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2018, 09:57:31 AM
I'm afraid that I don't know where it is Anneelaine but It may be familiar to other forum members.     It is quite distinguished so it should be easy to recognise.
I'll have a look later today on Google
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2018, 10:13:49 AM
I've found it and know exactly where it is.  When I looked at Google earth the property was up for sale with Sterling Estate agents.
It's next to the farm on the corner of the Black Cat roundabout.
Go up the hill past the farm and then past a compound and the house is next to it on the right hand side as you are going up the hill.
It has the same postcode as the one you supplied sometime ago

By the way the house is called Castle Keep and I'm not sure if the compound is part of the land of the property
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on August 11, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
Hugo - you beat me to it!  I had thought Pensarn Farm was on the other side of the old county boundary.  I think Castle Keep is a more modern dwelling which has been extended.  It does not seem to show up on Ordnance Survey maps until the 6" edition published in 1953 which was revised in the late 1940s. Castle Keep is quite firmly in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway rather than Llangwstennin.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 11, 2018, 03:11:03 PM
Hey,
So that house would have been on Pensarn farm land do you think it could have been the farm house in 1967 ? also Hugo the photo of that small white house with my dad as a young boy you found with the dogs after you Hugo is so close to it or am I in the wrong place  (castle  keep)
 Land Registry not showing it at all for the name of house Llansantffraid Glan Conway or  Llangwstennin
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 11, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
Castle Keep, Sarn Y Mynach To Glasfryn, Colwyn Bay, LL28 5LE
                                 Found it

Detached
Year built:
1922
Bedrooms:
3
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2018, 03:48:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hugo - you beat me to it!  I had thought Pensarn Farm was on the other side of the old county boundary.  I think Castle Keep is a more modern dwelling which has been extended.  It does not seem to show up on Ordnance Survey maps until the 6" edition published in 1953 which was revised in the late 1940s. Castle Keep is quite firmly in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway rather than Llangwstennin.

Pensarn Farm was across the other side of the causeway at the end of the railway bridge and roughly where the Plumbers merchants is now and was in Llangystennin   The other farm by the Black Cat roundabout is Sarn Y Mynach but I'm sure that I've seen old maps when it has had Pensarn shown by it and that was in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy just like Castle Keep.
Have you any idea when Castle Keep was built?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 11, 2018, 04:27:51 PM
1922 Hugo
maybe this is the house I went to or My family lived in
 could be where my Dad took me that day to his cousins  he did not tell us her name just the old lady
O dear the house looks right  but the grounds 2 small also no sheep around the house ( I have this picture in my mind and that place looks so much like it)
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on August 11, 2018, 06:49:45 PM
Correct, Hugo.  Old maps do show "Sarn y Mynach" as Pensarn.  The other Pensarn was at the opposite end of the causeway in Llangwstennin so the naming is correct.  My interpretation of the old OS map is that the Llangwstennin one was on the site of what is now Richard Williams' depot (used to be Bookers at one time). The buildings seem to have disappeared by the time the 1953 edition was produced.

"Castle Keep" does look as if it was built on land which belonged to Pensarn (Glan Conway). This Pensarn was still shown called thus on the 1953 OS map so when the change of name took place is anyone's guess.  I suppose the rating records would give a clue.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 11, 2018, 07:06:43 PM
 ;D wow
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2018, 10:54:47 PM
Anneelaine, don't forget that the place has changed a lot since you were a child and the area from the farm to Castle Keep would have been fields in your day and also across the road was farmland too
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 12, 2018, 12:12:46 AM
Hugo,
I was thinking that today we would walk from the junction station to the farm
 it would feel like it  was a long way and as you say  would not look how it looks today
thank you all
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 12, 2018, 04:29:28 PM
Hey,
Thank you for all your info It now looks like we found the house
AND Hugo you found the little house in the photo wow
 so when we move too llandudno soon I can try and fine out who lived in that house in 1967 and when was the name change
I can never thank you  guys enough
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Robbie G on August 13, 2018, 03:01:12 PM
I think the gentleman who lived in the house was a Mr Evans ,I believe he was an accountant or a solicitor in Llanrwst not certain , but his son Dewi farmed Gofer Farm in the Bryn Y Maen area .they also had a daughter I do not recall her name but will make enquires if it helps
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 13, 2018, 06:43:13 PM
Robbie that would be great thank you.( Is this around 1967)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Robbie G on August 19, 2018, 12:31:13 PM
A few further details for you Anneelaine ,The original name on the house was Gwyrfai , A Mr Will Evans and his family lived there son Dewi daughter Ann .
I hope this of some help to you .
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on August 19, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I think the gentleman who lived in the house was a Mr Evans ,I believe he was an accountant or a solicitor in Llanrwst not certain , but his son Dewi farmed Gofer Farm in the Bryn Y Maen area .they also had a daughter I do not recall her name but will make enquires if it helps

I put in Gwyrfai into the online catalogue for Conwy Archives and there were 8 entries for Gwyrfai and the item below is similar to the others and the time was around the 1930's

Pair of semi-detached cottages at Conway Road, Llandudno Junction
Ddisgrifiad / Description   for William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai, Glan Conway, builder. Approved. Architect: Messrs Dew & Arthur Jones. No. 1031.

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on August 20, 2018, 02:27:45 AM
Hi Hugo,
Well I on a full stop now
Evens!!!! All I can think my Dad cousin the old lady in the house married a Mr Evens
 it had to be the Davies side so here I go again Robbie Dewi Evens is he Still alive The guy at the house was maybe 50 that's in 1967 or maybe He looked older then  he was
 I  know he scared me for sure he was a big guy with a cap never forget that face. :-\

                                                      thank so much
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Robbie G on August 30, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
Sorry to have taken so long in replying to your last post Anneelaine  ,I  am unable to find any further details for you other than Dewi ( son ) has died some time ago , and I have no details for his sister Ann.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 03, 2018, 09:37:58 PM
Thank you, Robbie, for that
Would you have an age for them at all

I know now 99.9%I am at the right house after sitting outside today
with my sister and going through it with her
my husband said he is going to put us in a home lol
Thanks
( EVANS RHYS WYN JANUARY 14, 2012 ORIGINALLY OF GWYRFAI, GLAN CONWY, DIED PEACEFULLY AFTER A BRAVE STRUGGLE, AGED 77. FUNERAL ..Just found this )
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 10, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
Hi, can anyone make out the name of the farm is on this Attachment at the top is Hugh Davies the farm is in Glan Conwy? the one with the ffri
DATE 1891
thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: rhuddlan on October 10, 2018, 08:11:28 PM
it seems to be this one?

Hugh Davis
England and Wales Census, 1891





Name:   Hugh Davis
Event Type:   Census
Event Date:   1891
County:   Caernarvonshire
Parish:   Llansaintffraid Glan Conway
Ecclesiastical Parish:   TROFARTH
Registration District:   Conway
Residence Note:   Bontnewydd
Gender:   Male
Age:   60
Marital Status:   Married
Occupation:   Farmer
Relationship to Head of Household:   Head
Birth Year (Estimated):   1831
Birthplace:   Denbighshire, England
Page Number:   7
Registration Number:   RG12
Piece/Folio:   4672/ 32
Household   Role   Sex   Age   Birthplace
Hugh Davis   Head   Male   60   Denbighshire, England
Catharine Davis   Wife   Female   58   Carnarvonshire, England
Elizabeth Davis   Daughter   Female   18   Denbighshire, England
Thomas Davis   Son   Male   14   Denbighshire, England
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 10, 2018, 10:02:39 PM
That's him need to find the name of the farm now   Its my great x1 grandfather
Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 10, 2018, 10:21:09 PM
I haven't looked at this properly but you can see the problems that occur when someone copies details from one form to the next.
For a start the surname in the Census is Davies not Davis and Denbighshire has never been in England, that's a bit of ignorance on behalf of the person who compiled the info Rhuddlan found.
Anyway, I can't make out the farm name at present but it should be easy to find
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 10, 2018, 11:38:28 PM
Thank you Hugo, 
You right its not good
but what can we do
 not a lot
Thank god they are not like me I write backwards alot of the time  :-[
 Again thank you
Anneelaine.

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 07:44:44 AM
Hi Anneelaine, these things happen but it just makes things harder to follow.   The farm looks like Ffrith Y Foel but I can't locate it on my O/S map but will look again and try and find it for you
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 11, 2018, 09:06:00 AM
I would say it is Ffrith-y-Foel ... I also recognise the names of some of the other addresses on that sheet.  It is at map reference SH 802734, post code LL28 5RD ... at the top of Bodnant Hill (A470) there is a cross roads, take the left turn (when heading south) and it is the first house on the left.  It is part of Bodnant Estate, and probably was back in 1891 as well.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 11, 2018, 09:12:20 AM
Meusydd and Bryn Hyfryd are both on the unclassified back road from Fffrith-y-Foel back towards Fforddlas Bridge, and Bwlch Farm is at the top of the hill heading eastwards from Ffrith-y-Foel.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 09:34:25 AM
Thanks very much for posting that DVT,    I've had a look on old maps but wouldn't have found it without your help.
I'm off for a game of golf now but will look at the maps later and thanks again
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 03:14:51 PM
I've had time to look at Google Earth and viewed Ffrith Y Foel.      It is the first house on the left as you go down Ffordd Prenol from the A470.  The house is a white building with the gable end facing the road and has it's name on a wooden sign by the roadside.
When I next go to Talgoed Nurseries I'll try and take a photo of the building
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 11, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
When I started work (1965) and not old enough to drive I cycled from my home (Conway Cottage, next to the Bodnant Welsh Food Centre entrance) UP Bodnant Hill to Ffrith-y-Foel, where I got a lift to Colwyn Bay with the daughter of the family who lived there ... I cannot remember her name now, but the car was an Austin A35!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 11, 2018, 10:01:24 PM
Thank you Hugo
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 11, 2018, 10:23:22 PM
Hi,
Still looking for it think i been all over lol
is it in Glan conwy been all over the A470
thanks
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2018, 07:47:08 AM
Anneelaine,    When you see Glan Conwy on Google Street map follow the A470  (Llanrwst Road) south through the village,
Go past Nev's Garage, then Talgoed Nurseries then you are looking for a staggered crossroads.    As you look at the screen on the right is Ffordd Prenol
Turn down there and Ffrith Y Foel is the first house on the left
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 12, 2018, 08:16:15 AM
This is Ffrith-y-Foel ... map reference and post code in my previous posting!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 12, 2018, 02:03:15 PM
                      Thank you Hugo ,
Could your walk across the fields to Pensarn farm ? is this house higher up?
it was my gt x 2 grandfathers farm well rented I would think.
Thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2018, 02:30:33 PM
Anneelaine, here are some photos taken on a wet and windy day today of Ffrith Y Foel.      It's in a nice location and the photos don't do it justice.

No you can't walk across the fields to Ffrith Y Foel from Pensarn Farm.    You could walk along the lanes to get there but you'd have to be very fit and it would take you some time although it must only be three or four miles away.  I drove past Pensarn Farm to get there but didn't check the mileage

According to DVT it is part of the Bodnant Estate and may have been so in 1891 so your ancestor would have been a tenant farmer on the estate
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 12, 2018, 02:56:30 PM
Thanks Hugo.
Right so that not the farm Dad and his brother would walk across the fields back to Pensarn farm after work at a  farm higher up
       rethink again I think
thanks for the photos  Hugo will put on my tree.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2018, 06:27:25 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
When I started work (1965) and not old enough to drive I cycled from my home (Conway Cottage, next to the Bodnant Welsh Food Centre entrance) UP Bodnant Hill to Ffrith-y-Foel, where I got a lift to Colwyn Bay with the daughter of the family who lived there ... I cannot remember her name now, but the car was an Austin A35!


A friend asked me to ask you  if the lady you had a lift to work with was Eirian Jones  , she had an A35 worked in the Bay .
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 12, 2018, 08:05:11 PM
Hugo ... yes, that could be her.  I remember it was a Welsh name but I cannot remember the surname.  She did work in Colwyn Bay, but I cannot remember where.  I think she was one of two daughters, her father worked for Bodnant as the house was part of the estate, and in those days they were rent-free (tied cottages) for Bodnant employees (as was the house I lived in).  It was a black A35, but many of them were!

That property, and Croesau Farm at the nearby crossroads, are at the most northerly point of Bodnant Estate.  Dyto, at the southern end of the wide part of the A470 towards Llanrwst, is the most southerly point.  Croesau was sold to Henry Pochin (see below) by someone with the same surname as me and who I think could link into my family tree, but I've not quite found the connection!

As a complete aside, the Bodnant Estate comprises about 25 farms and cottages as well as Bodnant Hall and what is now Bodnant Garden ... purchased in 1874 by Henry Pochin for the sum of £67,500 ... his daughter Laura became a McLaren and that is the family name still there today, four generations down the line from Pochin.

Going back to the original enquiry and reference to walking to Pensarn, it would be quite a hike but in those days people did walk such distances without the need for wheels.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 13, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Thanks Hugo.
Right so that not the farm Dad and his brother would walk across the fields back to Pensarn farm after work at a  farm higher up
       rethink again I think
thanks for the photos  Hugo will put on my tree.
Anneelaine

Anneelaine,   it would be impossible for me to tell you where the other farm was as there were so many in the area at that time.
Just recap on the facts of your original posting and that was about Pensarn Farm in Llangystennin.   We know that your ancestors lived there and were buried in Llangystennin Churchyard.
Across the causeway ( Welsh = Sarn ) a few hundred yards was another farm also called Pensarn ( now Sarn Y Mynach)   but that was in Glan Conwy and is by the Black Cat roundabout.
However from the Pensarn Farm in Llangystennin is a public footpath that goes across fields all the way up hill to Esgyryn Farm where other members of the Davies family once lived  See the old photo of Esgyryn Farm that a forum reader kindly sent me.
A number of Davies' had farms nearby but further up the hill is Pydew and you have mentioned a Tan Y Bryn before and there are two farms up there with the same name of Tan Y Bryn,
Something to think about but do you know from other Census records where Hugh Davies was born?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 13, 2018, 11:33:50 AM
Hope I'm not going to confuse things but I use findmypast.com and it comes up with two Hugh Davis (without the e) - one being the Ffrith-y-Foel one and the other at Glanllyn, Pentreflin.  Looking at the original manuscript I reckon both Davis families should be Davies with the e (the "normal" Welsh spelling), so whoever transcribed the info has made a mistake.

Now, the info that Rhuddlan has published is correct for the Ffrith-y-Foel Hugh Davi(e)s but I cannot see where the address given (Bontnewydd, Trofarth) reference comes in.  As already stated, it would be quite a walk from Ffrith-y-Foel to Pensarn.

The other Hugh Davis I found is at Glanllyn, in 1891 he is 56 years old.  His wife Mary is 58, and their three children are William 22 (Carpenter) and daughters Elizabeth 24 and Sarah 19 (both Dressmakers).  So, where is Glanllyn?

Looking at the manuscripts Glanllyn the list goes Mariah Chapel, Marian, Glanllyn, Pant, TanyBryniau and a few further on Mynydd Merci, and I know the family that live there.  I thought the chapel could be a good clue so looked up the 1891 map (old-maps.co.uk) and I find it is the chapel that is alongside the B5381 road from Glan Conway Corner (Black Cat) to Bryn-y-Maen - it has recently been renovated into a house - map reference SH827750.  The old map also shows Marian to the north (SH 825756) and Pant(clyd) to the NW (SH 822756).

Map does not show Glanllyn but it must have been in that area, and within comfortable walking distance (about a mile and half) of Pensarn (the one near Black Cat) and not much further to the one on Llangwstenin road.

Could the Glanllyn family be your answer?

But one thing that does still puzzle me is the translation of Glanllyn - side of the lake - where is the lake?
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 13, 2018, 01:25:41 PM
That's an interesting find DVT  and you must have been busy on that research.   The more contributors we have on here the better and it may help Anneelaine put the jigsaw together.  The surname is Davies, certainly in the case of Ffrith Y Foel and it has just been transcribed incorrectly on Rhuddlan's  find.
It's intriguing about your find of Glanllyn as I think that I visited the place when I was working and if I'm correct then it is a bungalow nearer the upper Llanrwst Road and there was no sign of a lake there but Llyn can also refer to a small pond.

You also mentioned Mariah Chapel and I have been to see it and taken photos of it.  It's a beautiful building with breathtaking views but I was researching for someone else on the forum.   He was looking for information about his Grandfather William Davies and he posts on here under the name Down under but his real name is Hugh Davies

As you will know the Davies' are a big farming community in the area and I was trying to establish a possible link between Anneelaine and  the forum member Down Under

There are two Llandudno Junction people who read the forum but don't post things on it but have a wealth of knowledge about the Davies family and told me about a number of farms the Davies' had, most where around the Junction area but two were  in Denbighshire but I've forgotten the names of them but think that they could have been in the Bryn Y Maen area.     Perhaps they will read this and let me know the names of those farms

The only thing with your theory about Glanllyn is that Anneelaine has said that the men walked across the fields to get home but in Glanllyn's case it would have been easier walking along the B5381  and even then it would have been quite a slog.

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 13, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
Interesting discussion.  The Glanllyn that DVT refers to is a short distance from Marian (to the north east); there is a well nearby and possibly that gave rise to the name.  I agree this would be quite a trek to Pensarn.

There is another Glanllyn in Pydew.  It is situated by the Pydew (another word for well) so hence that name as well.  This seems to have been a small holding and could have been reached "across the fields" from Pensarn.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 13, 2018, 02:11:30 PM
Thanks Cambrian for the info on Glanllyn.       That's the one DVT  was telling us about as those Census records were usually done in some type of order and I think it's the one on the Denbighshire side rather than the one in Pydew

I'm sure that our forum member Tom Jones can tell us some info on the Pydew Glanllyn if we need it
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 13, 2018, 03:21:11 PM
Yes, now found Glanllyn on a map, it is very close to Marian ... old-maps.co.uk ... when I looked earlier I was viewing an 1891 map which didn't show it, but the 1900 one does!  Looking on Google maps now Marian exists but no trace of Glanllyn - map reference SH 825756.

I do think that the walk to Pensarn would be directly North-West across fields until reaching the B5381 just up from Black Cat!

You can really tie yourself into knots on this family history stuff - I can trace my family on Bodnant Estate back to 1820 with several working for the estate, but there are a lot of other Thomas's there as well and I just cannot link them together.  My family members are all labourers or gardeners, but some of the other Thomas's are the actual farmers - I'm sure they must link up!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 13, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
 Hugo.
Hugh Davies  1828 • born Llansantffraid, Denbighshire, Wales
also worked on a farm called maidu mawz looks like in 1871
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 13, 2018, 09:02:48 PM
Hi.
How I know about the 2 farms and the walking across the fields to each farm  is my uncle william got a wasp in his mouth
 when in the fields and it stung him,
             it just stuck in my mind.
                           Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 13, 2018, 10:14:43 PM
Hey .
Think I found something 1871 Hugh Davies was working as a  laborer @ Glanllyn.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 12:14:41 AM
Hi .
Forget the last bit got it mixed up
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 12:41:03 AM
Hugo.
When i was saying about Hugh Davies age
also the name of the farm
Well it was  Mardir Mawr, Llansanffraid.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 14, 2018, 12:11:57 PM
The farm is still there Anneelaine.    It's in an area of Glan Conwy that is known as the Graig and not too far from Ffrith Y Foel.
It's a nice looking building and the strange thing is that I drove past the property some years ago when I was looking for a William Davies and took a photo of the property next door to Mardir.    On the photo of that other property you can see another roof of a building and that is Mardir's roof
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 14, 2018, 01:11:01 PM
I think there are just too many Hugh Davies's in Llansantffraid in the 1800's!!!  There is also variation in ages on the census but that was normal and could be up to 5 years out, so there is a little bit of guess work here!

Hugh Davies (birth year varies from 1835 to 1839)

1841 is at Brin y Felin, aged 6 (1835) with parents Hugh 25 (1816) a Labourer and Catherine 30 (1811), brother Robert 3 (1838) plus Thomas Thomas 70 (1771) and Martha Hughes 15 (1826) who have no relationship given

1851 is at St Ucha, aged 16 (1835) Agricultural Labourer at the home of Henry Williams, General Practitioner

1861 cannot trace

1871 is at Glanllyn, aged 35 (1836) with wife Mary 36 (1835), daughters Anne 15 (1856) and Elizabeth 4 (1867) and sons Hugh 12 (1859), John (1864) and William 2 (1869)

1881 is at Glanllyn, aged 46 (1835) with wife Mary 47 (1834), daughters Elizabeth 14 (1867) a Dressmaker and Sarah 8 (1873), son William 12 (1869) and grand-daughter Catherine 2 (1879)

1901 is at Glanllyn, aged 62 (1839) with wife Mary 64 (1837) and daughter Sarah E 27 (1874) a Dressmaker

1911 is at Glanllyn, aged 77 (1834), widow with nephew Hugh aged 18.

Hugh Davies (birth year varies from 1828 to 1831)

1871 is at Mardir Farm, aged 40 (1831) with wife Catherine 36 (1835), daughters Ann & Catherine both 10 (1861), Jane 7 (1864) and son John 4 (1867)

1881 is at Mardir Farm, aged 53 (1828) a Farmer & Agricultural Labourer, with wife Catherine 47 (1834), daughters Elizabeth 8 (1873) and Ellin 6 (1875) and sons Hugh 24 (1857) an Indoor Servant, Owen 22 (1859) a Joiner and Thomas 4 (1877)

1901 is at Ffrith y Foel, aged 73 (1828) with wife Catherine 68 (1833), daughter Elizabeth 28 (1873) a Dressmaker, and grand-daughter Catherine 9 (1892)

Then you have the following which could be linked:

1841 Hugh Davies 20 (1821) agricultural labourer living in the Yard at Nany y Cowardy (?) farme of John Wynne

1851 Hugh Davies 18 (1833) farm servant at Tyddyn Ucha for William Davies

1851 Hugh Davies 28 (1823) at Trallwyn with mother Ann 58 (1793) Farmer's widow born in Eglwysbach and brothers Evan 26 (1825), William 19 (1832) and Owen 15 (1836)

1871 Hugh Davies 51 (1820) at Tyddyn Ucha, Deunant with wife Mary 41 (1830) and daughter Mary Ann 4 (1867) + 3 servants

Trallwyn (map ref SH 794740) and Mardir (SH 797743) are very close together on the unclassified road that leds from Forddlas Bridge to the top of Bodnant Hill on the western side of the A470 (between A470 and River Conway), also not far from Ffirth-y-Foel.  On the old maps there is a Mardir and a Mardir Bach.

I suspect Nant y Cowardy is really Nant y Cywarch (SH 812738) on the unclassified narrow road heading east from fforddlas Bridge.

Tyddyn Ucha is near Bryn-y-Maen at map ref SH812738

I suspect St Ucha stands for Stryd Ucha which is High Street.

Useful websites for you:
old-maps.co.uk
gridreferencefinder.com
google.co.uk/maps

Hope that is of some help ... more pieces for the jigsaw puzzle, whether they fit or not is another question!

Like me, with many of my ancestors from the same area (Glan Conway and Eglwysbach) there are a lot of duplication of names and they agricultural labourer and dressmaker seems to be the most common occupation.

Good luck!

Dave


Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 14, 2018, 01:12:50 PM
Sorry Hugo ... I had been compiling my message for last couple of hours and there is some duplication with your post!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 14, 2018, 02:38:41 PM
You've been extremely busy there DVT getting all that info together but it shows just how difficult it is to trace ancestors when they have such a common name.
I trust that Anneelaine  has got the correct one at Ffrith Y Foel  but it's important to check and then recheck just to make sure

Hugh Davies or Down Under as he posts on here had ancestors who lived in Tyddyn Iolyn  in Eglwysbach so there is no connection to Anneelaine that we know of.   

Regarding your own family history DVT have you been to the Conwy Archives to look at any records?    They have lots of Church records going back to the 1600's in some cases
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 03:40:49 PM
Hi.
And thanks for that DVT great help .
I have been invited to  service on the 11/11 Trefriw, Caernarvonshire,
2 of uncle's Davies were  killed in France & Belgium ,1917
I been trying to find them on my tree for ages
and got a email asking me would I like to go a few days ago
So maybe I may meet some family.
Thanks guys
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 14, 2018, 03:55:58 PM
Made for an interesting morning for me !!!

Annelaine ... I don't know if you use findmypast.com but I have a subscription so can get at a lot of info that is not free to anyone dropping in.  They are adding more info each week and last week added some Kent 1931 electoral records - I found more info about my maternal grandparents - Mum came from Kent and met Dad, who was from Tyn-y-Groes, ar the end of the War when Dad was stationed there!

The old-maps website has proved very useful for me as I had three different addresses in Tal-y-Cafn and Eglwysbach that have not existed in my lifetime, but I found them on the old maps!

If you have any more info on the Davies's who lost their lives in WW1 I can look them up for you - they should be on the 1911 and 1901 census at least - name, age or year of birth, and address if poss then I'll see what I can find - they may well turn up brothers and sisters who you can relate to.

Hugo ... I've not been to the Conwy Archives but have found a few of my family in Eglwysbach records (and their graves!) and then the Thomas tree goes to Glan Conway where I think I've found the baptism of my great-great-grandfather in 1794 and it gives parental names but they are described as paupers, which is sad.  I know g-g-grandfather was on Bodnant Estate in 1820 and can trace down to me very well from him!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 14, 2018, 04:49:57 PM
I've found this link helpful too


https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjVqOGco4beAhUJ53cKHTsfDygYABAAGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRodQVaHt4aLio5j5h8wZpy0A&sig=AOD64_1ba1HpBJENa8FqyK5yboVtkGjYSQ&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiK0deco4beAhXKD8AKHYyXAg4Q0Qx6BAgCEAI&adurl= (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjVqOGco4beAhUJ53cKHTsfDygYABAAGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRodQVaHt4aLio5j5h8wZpy0A&sig=AOD64_1ba1HpBJENa8FqyK5yboVtkGjYSQ&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiK0deco4beAhXKD8AKHYyXAg4Q0Qx6BAgCEAI&adurl=)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 05:42:54 PM
Hi. DVT
I was told in Dublin   fine my past was the best one to use
Right names  Davies, Gwilym Iorwerth Davies & Thomas Owen she said was a uncle but Thomas I do not know how,
 Gwilym  was my grand's  brother both born Trefriw, Jane Ann Davies Born 1890
Thanks
 Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 05:58:04 PM
Just one more thing
 The grave owner at the time was a Rowland Lewis, from Llanrwst, who brought  my gt Grandfather and Grandmother grave never heard of  him,
Could I  fine anything out about this grave I have now got a grave number Trefriw cemetery by st Mary's church
The lady who emailed told me this
Thanks
Anneelaine

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 14, 2018, 07:01:55 PM
DVT - have you tried maps.nls.uk

This is the National Library of Scotland collection.  I find it very easy to use and without all the commercial blurb on the old maps site.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 14, 2018, 08:24:22 PM
Annelaine ... found quite a bit about Jane Ann Davies and the Davies family!  I started with the 1901 census and worked from there, but to put things in chronological order here they are.  The first few entries become relevant as you read down!

1851 at Cefngwyn, Eglwysbach
William Hughes age 33 (1818) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 20 acres of upland
Catherine Hughes age 32 (1819) born Eglwysbach, his wife
John Hughes age 1 (1850) born Eglwysbach, their son

1861 at Garth, Eglwysbach
Wlliam Hughes age 46 (1815) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 150 acres
Catherine Hughes age 40 (1821) born Eglwysbach,
John Hughes age 11 (1850) their son, born Eglwysbach,
Mary Hughes age 8 (1853) their daughter, born Eglwysbach,
Catherine Hughes age 6 (1855) their daughter, born Eglwysbach,
Thomas Hughes age 4 (1857) their son

1871 at Garth, Cefnycoed, Llanrwst
same family as above but with slight variations on ages

1881 at Ty Newydd, Eglwysbach
Wlliam Hughes age 65 (1816) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 40 acrews
Catherine Hughes age 64 (1817) born Eglwysbach
Mary Hughes age 28 (1853) their daughter, born Eglwysbach
Catherine Hughes age 26 (1855) their daughter, born Eglwysbach, occupation given as "Domestic Servant out of Employment"
Mary Catherine Hughes age 4 (1877) their grand-daughter, born Eglwysbach

1881 at Mardir Farm, Glan Conway
Owen Davies age 22 - see previous information - that's how you can tie in with there!

1882 Owen Davies married Catherine Hughes at Llanrwst

1891 at Rectory Cottage, Trefriw
Owen age 32 (1859) a saer (carpenter), born Glan Conway
Catherine age 32 (1859), born Eglwysbach
Hugh age 8 (1883), born Glan Conway
Mary C age 6 (1885), born Llanrwst
Elizabeth E age 2 (1889), born Trefriw
Jane A age 1 (1890), born Trefriw

1901 at Bryn Rodyn, Trefriw we have
Owen age 42 (1859) a wheelwright, born Glan Conway
Catherine age 44 (1857) born Eglwysbach
Hugh age 18 (1883) a wheelwright, born Glan Conway
Mary C age 16 (1885) born Llanrwst
Elizabeth E age 13 (1888) born Trefriw
Jane A age 11 (born 1890) born Trefriw
Gwilym J age 8 (1893) born Trefriw - transcript incorrect as original shows I not J (longhand script writing!)
Gertrude age 5 (1896) born Trefriw
Thomas O age 3 (1898) born Trefriw

1911 at Bryn Pair, Trefriw
Catherine age 52 (1859) a widow and Lodging Housekeeper
Gwilym Iorwerth age 18 (1893) an Aluminium Works Labourer - that would be in Dolgarrog
Thomas Owen age 13 (1898) an errand boy
Margaret Mary age 1 (1910) grand-daughter, born in Llanrwst

1911 at Glasfryn, Trefriw
Hugh age 28 (1883) a carpenter and wheelwright
Margaret age 30 (1881) his wife, born Llanrwst

1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.

1911 at Grassendale, Mostyn Avenue, Llandudno
Elizabeth Ellen age 23 (1888) born Trefriw, a General Domestic Servant for Walter Richard Kempson, the owner of apartments

I cannot find Jane Ann Davies in 1911 but guess she got married - to a William Rogerson ?

Cefngwyn, Garth and Ty Newydd are all fairly close to each other, alongside the road to Llyn Syberi, Tal-y-Cafn.

More pieces for your jigsaw puzzle!

Big coincidence when I researched that and I thought we would end up related!!!  Your line has a Catherine Hughes living in Ty Newydd, Eglwysbach - so does mine!  However, my Catherine Hughes was born 1839 and there on both 1841 and 1851 census - she was my great-grandmother.

Dave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 14, 2018, 08:40:39 PM
Cambrian - thanks for that tip, not seen that one before - much clearer than the old-maps ones!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 14, 2018, 09:26:29 PM
WOW
Thank you DVT.
a lot to put down.
Jane Anne Davies did not get married to WBR till 1917 so  where was she lol Mmmm
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 15, 2018, 03:00:03 PM
Been looking  for victory yard in Llandudno in 1911 for   Jane Ann Davies was working or living here
thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on October 15, 2018, 03:22:34 PM
annelaine

I think Victory Yard may be Victoria Yard.

This was off Back Madoc Street.  There were five of these yards which contained workshops and small dwellings.  The area has been re-developed a couple of times since the 1930s and now forms the Victoria Shopping Centre.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 16, 2018, 09:58:59 PM
DVT,
I was just  been thinking Evens!!  could this be the start of the name                 
William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai,
I all most sure 99%9 Gwyrfai was the farm my Dad took me to as a child (Dad cousin)
maybe over thinking again
1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.
Anneelaine



Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 17, 2018, 10:47:11 PM
Looking closer at the 1911 census details for James Evans ... the census forms you can view online are copies of the originals, hand-written by the residents.  Although the transcript gives the property as Ffrith y Vae I am confident the writing actually says Ffrith y Voel (spelt with a V and not F).  The census also states that the marriage of James and Anne has been for 24 years and they had 4 children, three still living but not at that address.

Strangely I cannot trace James or Anne Evans on earlier censuses.

Who is William Henry Evans, cannot trace him.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 18, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai, Glan Conway,
Lived at the farm I am 99.9%
                                        thinking it was Pensarm Farm in 1967 or 66
Dad said it was his cousin that's all
Never heard of the name  Evens before
 till you said about 1911
Anneelaine

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 18, 2018, 03:47:32 PM
William Henry Evans is too recent to trace through findmypast, but you have links to Hughes family at Trefriw, who are linked to the Evans family at Ffrith-y-Foel, so it looks as though things are coming together that way.  It is possible that William Henry Evans is a decscendant of James and Anne Evans.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 19, 2018, 02:44:18 PM
Could be I hope
thank you
 :)
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 19, 2018, 03:05:37 PM
this is Is this Rhys' evens son birth registration? William Henry( Evens But it says mother Maiden name as Evens) Mmmmm

General Records Office (GRO)
Rhys W Evans, Dec Qtr 1934, Conwy, vol 11B  page 563 - mother's maiden name Evans

North Wales BMDs
Rhys Wyn Evans, 1934, sub district Llandudno, registers held Conwy County Borough, ref. DUDNO/16/38
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 19, 2018, 11:04:33 PM
DVT
Maybe a bit thick.
 But just got this from someone
There is a possible civil marriage in Conw(a)y district 1930 between William Henry Evans and Elizabeth Evans.The W H Evans born to James and Ann in Golborne was born in 1890 so if it is him it may not be a first marriage.
Thanks
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 20, 2018, 02:38:59 AM
Hi forget this not on right track
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 20, 2018, 02:59:20 AM
Hi keep going back  & back and still coming up with this
James Evans   Head   M   41   Llenllan, Denbighshire
Anne Evans   Wife   F   39   Glan Conway, Denbighshire
Janes Evans   Son   M   13   Liverpool
William H Evans   Son   M   10   Golborn Lancaster
John Evans   Son   M   7   Burtonwood Lancaster
William Owen   Boarder   M   28   Whitford, Flintshire
we have got the William H evens here Mmmmm
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 20, 2018, 09:33:38 AM
I said before that I couldn't find the Evans family before 1911 (when they were at Ffrith-y-Foel) but now had some success!  I was looking to close to home, but your info added some clues!

1891 at Legh Street, Golborne, Leigh, Lancashire we have
James Evans, age 32, a Road Labourer, born Rhenllan (I reckon that should be Henllan, which is near Denbigh)
Annie Evans, age 30, born Glan Conway
James Evans, age 3, born Liverpool
William H Evans, age 5 months, born Golborne
also a lodger Thomas Williams, age 27, a Road Labourer, born Dinas Mawddwy

Then have the info you came up with ...
1901 at 3 Trecastell Terrace, Llangelynin, Conwy we have
James Evans, age 41, a Lead miner (there were lead mines in that area behind Conway)
Annie Evans, age 39
James Evans, age 13
William H Evans, age 10
John Evans age 7, born Burtonwood
also a lodger William Owen, age 28, a Lead miner, born Whitford

So ... it seems the Evans family moved around a lot, with various jobs!

Cannot find William H Evans in 1911, he would have been 20, not with parents at Ffrith-y-Foel.

Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 20, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
Hi ,
Thanks for that
 I was looking at it all the time thinking what's going on here lol
Now I need to find W,H,E so he born 1890 in Golborn Lancaster I  need to find him in 1911
I think Its go be a late night again
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 20, 2018, 02:00:02 PM
Hi i think we have sorted it Well may have lol
If William Henry is Rhys Wyn's son, it's possible he is named after the William H Evans on the 1901 Census, who is a possible father for Rhys Wyn. just been told this both lived @ !!!
 Gwyrfai William Henry Evans,
 Gwyrfai, Glan Conway RHYS  tooooo
Who are my Dads cousins omg and it got to be the farm house we went to  as a child wow
So the old man could have been Rhys he would have only been in his 30's bless omg
so it was not Pensarn farm Dad took us to as I said only told we were going to see his cousins
Thanks Anneelaine

 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 20, 2018, 03:24:45 PM
Could this be your William Henry Evans (born 1890) in 1911 - the last entry on this list:

1911 census at 8 Priory Road, Everton, Liverpool
William Jones, head, age 47 born 1864, Liverpool - House Joiner
Janet Jones, wife, age 46 born 1865, Liverpool
Janet Alice Jones, daughter, age 16 born 1895, Liverpool - Cigarette Maker in Tobacco Factory
Margaret Gladys Jones, daughter, age 15 born 1896, Liverpool - Cigarette Maker in Tobacco Factory
William Jones, son, age 12 born 1899, Liverpool - at school
Francis Jones, daughter, age 7 born 1904, Liverpool
William Evans, boarder, age 57 born 1854, Aberdovey - House Plumber
William Henry Evans, nephew, age 21 born 1890, Liverpool - House Joiner

As WH's family were over that way when he was born, is it possible he went back there.  Note also that hs is shown as nephew so could that be adding more relations to your tree?

Hopefully I'm not leading you down the wrong road, but that is the only William Henry Evans I could come up with that seemed a possibility.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 20, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
Hi;
I see what you are saying .
O dear what do i do next lol maybe see if he is on the 1939
thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 21, 2018, 02:28:27 AM
All mixed up now
someone sent me this

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)
View Profile  Personal Message (Offline)


Quote
Probate record gives date of death as 5 April 1956,granted to his widow Elizabeth (not an inconsiderable sum)!
There is a further probate record in 1959 for an Elizabeth Evans of Old Colwyn.Probate granted to Dewi Arfon Evans,farmer,and Rhys Wyn Evans,Engineer Officer,Merchant Navy.
no money left to the Ann Mmmmm
I have now lost it head spinning  :-\
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 21, 2018, 02:53:45 AM
Back again,
I know now W H Evens lived at Gwyrfai, Glan Conway in 1956 just read his will  cannot find his wife will 1959
so who had the farm about 6 years later when I went to it  :-\ O dear me
 farm was left to the 2 boys and not Ann
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 22, 2018, 12:17:51 AM
Hi DVT.
Just got this email
The William Evans who dies in 1956 and appears in that tree is consistent with a GRO death record in Aled district,aged 58 and therefore not the son of James and Ann.
Could I get a photo anywhere of pensar sarn Farm do you think?
I think Not
well back to thinking
THANKS
Anneelaine :-[
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 27, 2018, 07:39:28 PM
Hi.?
I know the house I am looking for is Gwyrfai, or a look alike
 But Did Pensarn farm have the same look  maybe
I  am 99%9  I have been to this house Gwyrfai
 my sister said the same
 But  Y  Did we Go
 I will never find out I think now
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 27, 2018, 10:20:51 PM
Annelaine ...

... go to Google Maps and search for post code LL28 5LE, then go down to street view.
You will find a Shell filling station (known as Black Cat).
Turn the view through 180° and directly opposite you will see buildings behind a high wall, between the A470 and the B5381 roads.
That is Pensarn.

... however, there was another Pensarn not far away.
Pensarn Cottages still exist, and can be found by searching for LL31 9NJ

... I cannot find any trace of a place named Gwyrfai.

Hope that helps a little.
Dave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 27, 2018, 10:53:06 PM
Hi. DVT
Its now called Castle Keep
The photo in 1966/67 was without the side bits and the  front door has been moved
I feel  & my sister 2 this is the house but how can it be
God I wish I did not have OCD so I can move on lol
driving me mad
Thanks
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2018, 08:51:55 AM
DVT,  have a look at this old map and you can see the Pensarn Cottages and on the right is Pensarn Farm which is now demolished and where Richard Williams and the Plumb Centre are now.    That Pensarn Farm was in Llangystenin
Below that across the causeway is the other Pensarn Farm by the Black Cat roundabout and that is in Glan Conwy that is now called Sarn Y Mynach
Annelaine's relative was a farmer and I think that the Pensarn Cottages were for railway employees
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 28, 2018, 04:01:35 PM
HI, DVT
Thanks  for that,
Been thinking And it keeps coming back when we last went to the farm he never said this is the farm I was born on only we were going to see his cousin and  walked from LJ the farm we went to look like Gwyrfai or
Castle Keep
the farm he was born always looked higher up Pensarn farm
I know my  Dad would speak about 2 farms lower and a higher one
also my aunt age about 95 said when we went to her house
she   had not Seen us from kids
 I know you 2 you are from the top farm  the  Rogerson did not know are names just called us Rogersons this I cannot make out
Anyway I am stuck
so I will thank everyone for the kindness and help
Thanks Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2018, 10:31:02 PM
Anneelaine,   you might never get the answers you are looking for, but do you know or want to know where your father was born?
If you don't know where, then if you put his full name and date of birth on here then if he was ever Baptised then the Baptism record may help
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 28, 2018, 10:35:50 PM
Annelaine ...

... does the farm name Waun Fynydd mean anything to you?  That would be in easy walking distance of Pensarn Farm (the one where Richard Williams Builders Merchants is now).  There is a very modern house where Waun Fynydd was, and the land around it is now houses all recently built.  Waun Fynydd is up Narrow Lane before you reach the roundabout with the A470.  On Google maps search post code LL31 9SZ then go up the road (Narrow Lane) a little way and the new house is the large bungalow opposite a parked red car ... only a couple of minutes walk from my house!

... Waun Fynydd could be regarded as upper from Pensarn, equally it could be one of the lower ones (with Pensarn) as there were other farmsteads on the way up to Pydew.

... incidentally the election area is still called Pensarn Ward.

Hugo ...

... was aware of Pensarn Farm.  The Cottages, which are still there, were lived in by railway workers - one being my wife's Great-grandmother and her husband (not her great-grandfather!) and he worked on the railway around 1900.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 28, 2018, 11:35:27 PM
hugo,
Just looking his on BC and saying May 1918 Pensarn farm Llangystenin George Rogerson
 Baptism record  would be good
  As I think my great grandfather worked in the church sometimes as rev so I was told
also  my dads  farther William bell Rogerson in 1911  he was a farmer on Pensarn farm  with is  Ist wife after her death in 1917 he married Jane Anne Davies 1918 still on farm but do not know what he did on it
something went on around I would say 1926 and Mary Rogerson 1st wife kids went to mary Rogerson nee Roberts family in Abergele, and Jane Anne Rogerson nee Davies,  kids went into a home not far from farm
I know a lot of bits I should have a large family around but something went on again no one spoke about
Its the names I have to go on not helping Jones Davies Hughes  lol
 Rogerson name only came into wales in 1874  WBR the 1st married a  Mary Jones from  Dongefine, [Llangefni, Anglesey, Wale
well thats it when I move to LLandudno I think  the library  will be busy with me in it a lot of the time  ;D
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2018, 10:43:23 AM
Thanks Anneelaine for posting that info.   As well as the Library, the Conwy Archives have lots of records that may help you in your search when you come to live in Llandudno.
With regard to your father George Rogerson then the farm he was born in was the one in Llandudno Junction that has now been demolished.
You mention the children of Jane Anne Rogerson going into a home locally and I would imagine that home was Blodwel Home which was a childrens home in Llandudno Junction ( near the railway station)

Obviously I have no idea of any other farm that your family had connections with but I assume that one must have been Marle Bach because of that Court case involving Mary Ann Rogerson and John Davies who were both said to be living at Marle Bach and that was on 26th May 1902

That information was from the Conwy Archives online catalogue.     Now this is just speculation on my part with no evidence to support it but as your father was called George Rogerson with an Irish connection there was also a family called Rogerson who ran the Mill in Gyffin Conwy
Another article in the online catalogue was from Mrs Connie Bannister nee Rogerson who said that her parents had bought the mill in 1920 and that her brother George Rogerson continued to work the mill until he sold it in 1947

I was just wondering whether George Rogerson from Gyffin was William Bell Rogerson's brother and that your father was named after his uncle.
Just something more to add to your list and to think about.    Rogerson is certainly not a common name around this area and Connie Rogerson I would presume to be of an Irish connection
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 29, 2018, 01:32:51 PM
Hugo thank you,
George Rogerson from Gyffin was William Bell Rogerson's brother  I would say no  as far as I know Only had a brother called Roger  who moved to Liverpool maybe a cousin.
But WBR the 1st  born Dublin had a son called George Rogerson born in Liverpool  this was with his first wife the rest of the family born in Dublin
so  lots to do thank you Hugo
Anneelaine
 Hugo,
 Just took  a bit of a look and dates look OK for George  Rogerson   from the mill   see what I can find
thanks :o
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: rhuddlan on October 29, 2018, 05:08:34 PM
 


I've Just put William Bell Rogerson in Family Search using Bangor as the" residence"(which in this case transpires as registration district)" (although I guess the actual address is on Anglesey) and came up with this guy. To what extent it helps I've no idea, but I thought I should post it anyway...you never know it could be useful. There seem to be several generations with" Bell Rogerson" including one from Newry in Ireland earlier in time on the site referred to above .

Name:   William Bell Rogerson
Event Type:   Death
Registration Quarter:   Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year:   1877
Registration District:   Bangor
County:   Caernarvonshire
Event Place:   Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Age:   79
Birth Year (Estimated):   1798
Volume:   11B
Page:   405
Affiliate Line Number:   312
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 29, 2018, 05:35:19 PM
Spot on .about WBR Bangor born 1877
His farther was born 1798 lol in Dublin
and  he went into northern Ireland a lot
 I had forgot about that
Thanks for that
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 29, 2018, 05:57:32 PM
HUGO,
You may have got something here HUGO  G T Rogerson who you told me about
 the miller  was also a corn merchant, Gyffin Mill, Conway

 WBR The 1st was a Merchant most of the family also was
 He lost all his money in London & Dublin went bankrupt in I think 1864,
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2018, 07:18:19 PM
According to a free BMD record there was a George Rogerson born 1918 and the birth was registered in the June quarter   Vol 11B  PG 728
Mother's maiden name Davies so that must have been your father.    There was no other George Rogerson on the records. 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 29, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
That's my  lovely Dad Hugo.
I cannot get my head around How someone can be so rich & live in  St George Hanover Square London
and I cannot find his grave in Bangor because he is a a paupers grave in 1877 my gt grandfather I am on about that messes with my head
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: rhuddlan on October 29, 2018, 08:00:15 PM
I've double checked my earlier posting today by checking with Freebmd.
I don't know if its your ancestor or not but it seems unusual that there is a chap with an identical family name whose death was registered in Bangor as follows.
Did you get the death certificate I wonder? It would give more details obviously.

Surname    First name(s)    Age    District    Vol    Page
Deaths Jun 1877   (>99%)
Rogerson    William Bell    79    Bangor    11b   405
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 29, 2018, 08:14:00 PM
No that's him
no one knows about any grave for him with it been a paupers grave  (I think ) so no headstone
so do not know where been put.
 Thinking could his wife be in the same grave but she did not pass till around 1922 that was in Bangor Mary Rogerson her grave could be anywhere in Bangor.
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 29, 2018, 10:57:39 PM
Anneelaine,  I have just been reading the Roots Chat website and you have posted there that you believe that William Bell Rogerson was buried in Coetmor Cemetery Bethesda, possibly in an unmarked grave.
Now you have mentioned that the grave could be in Bangor.

I was looking for a grave in Bangor a few years ago so I contacted the Bangor Crematorium and they were very helpful and not only gave me the grave number they gave me a map showing the location of the grave.
It might be worth a try if you phone the Crem on 01248 370500  or e-mail   galwgwynedd@gwynedd.llyw.cymru
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 12:06:55 AM
Yes when I phoned up got told he was in Bangor but did not where
I always was told he was in Bethesda I know he death was in Bethesda But then told not
I will ring Bangor up today thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 12:43:00 AM
Sending you this Hugo

Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 12:47:17 AM
Mmmmm I can see now Bethesda is where  he was living in the town not buried .
Anneelaine
 
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2018, 09:16:21 AM
Anneelaine,   sorry to throw a spanner in the works again but I think that you might be looking in the wrong place.
That burial register you have posted is for Anglesey and I'm guessing that Bethesda was the name of the house and not the town but of course I could be wrong
Llangwyllog is a small village a few miles from Llangefni in Anglesey
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2018, 12:29:03 PM
Anneelaine,    I've now seen another thread in RootsChat  and you have already explored the Llangwyllog connection and someone called Big  Al has given you a lot of information about your request and also your family tree.

The Burial index for that area only gives the graves location if there is a headstone on the grave and Big Al has said that there is no Rogerson listed in that index

There is nothing I can possibly add to this that Big Al hasn't already said to you.   It sounds like William may have been buried in St Cwyllog's Church in Llangwyllog but only the Church and possibly the Anglesey Archives in Llangefni may have the exact location of the grave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on October 30, 2018, 01:26:29 PM
Some info from findmypast.com - hope it's not repeating or confusing.

1851 census - Canonbury Square, Islington, London
William Rogerson, age 52 (1799) Elastic Fabric Merchant, born Ireland
Annie I Rogerson, age 44 (1807) wife, born Ireland
Ellen M Rogerson, age 26 (1825) daughter, born Ireland
Mary A Rogerson, age 24 (1827) daughter, born Ireland
Emily F Rogerson, age 20 (1831) daughter, born Ireland
Louisa I Rogerson, age 18 (1833) daughter, born Ireland
Adelaide Rogerson, age 17 (1834) daughter, born Ireland
Florence I Rogerson, age 11 (1840) daughter, scholar, born Ireland
William T Rogerson, age 9 (1842) son, scholar, born Ireland
James T Rogerson, age 6 (1845) son, scholar, born Ireland
George Rogerson, age 4 (1847) son, norn Liverpool
There is also Ellen McCarthy, age 33 (1818) servant, born Ireland
That would suggest that the family came over from Ireland sometime between 1845 and 1847.

1861 census - 23 Church road, Hackney, London
William B Rogerson, age 62 (1799) retired merchant, born Ireland
Ann J Rogerson, age 54 (1807) wife, born Ireland
Emily F Rogerson, age 29 (1832) governess, born Ireland
Florence Rogerson, age 20 (1841) governess, born Ireland
George N Rogerson, age 14 (1847) clerk in a railway office, born Liverpool
There is also Henry Newgam, age 28 (1833) boarder, chemist, born Lincolnshire and
Catherine Connor, age 35 (1826) general servant, born Ireland

1871 censue - no trace of William Rogerson but could, from your note above, have been back in Ireland.

1871 census - Middle Street, South Place, Camberwell, London
Ann Rogerson, age 62 (1809) lodger, born Ireland ... could be the same Ann Rogerson above.

1881 census - Carnarvon Terrace, Llangefni, Anglesey
Thoams Davies, age 63 (1818) formerly farm servanmt, born Anglesey
Mary Rogerson, age 35 (1846) widow, lodger, Nurse (SMS), born Llangwyllog, Anglesey
Roger Rogerson, age 6 (1875) lodger, scholar, born Llangefni
Mary A Rogerson, age 7 (1874) lodger, scholar, born Liverpool
William B Rogerson, age 3 (1878) lodger, born Bangor, Caernarvonshire
There is also Catherine Jones, age 31 (1850) lodger, general domestic servant, born Llwngwyllog

There is also abirth in 1877 of William Bell Rogerson, 2nd quarter, on Bangor - mother's maiden mame Jones.

Noting your comment earlier about being rich to live in  St George Hanover Square, London ... my maternal grandfather (George Roper) was born there in 1896 and the 1901 census shows him as living in Eaton Mews South, he was one of seven children.  His father (also George Roper) was a groom and looking at the neighbouring properties there were a number of grooms and stable workers - I believe the street comprised stables.  Certainly my family were not rich!!!  The street now comprises some very exclusive and expensive apartments, and google street map won't take you down there!
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: rhuddlan on October 30, 2018, 03:46:40 PM
I see there is mention of a Bankruptcy .  It was in 1864 when he was a mourning Hat Band Manufacturer.
From that I found a William Rogerson as a Hatter in Liverpool with Mary Jones as a servant. She and a visitor listed below
herald from Wales and I  can only guess Mary became the Mary Rogerson 1929 probate for whom there is probate mentioned on a Bangor web site that has already been checked out  by AE

Event Type   Census
Event Date   1871
Event Place   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Enumeration District   35
Gender   Male
Age   72
Marital Status   Widowed
Occupation   Hatter
Relationship to Head of Household   Head
Birth Year (Estimated)   1799
Birthplace   Ireland
Entry Number   23
Affiliate Image Identifier   GBC/1871/3792/0229
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
William Rodgerson   Head   M   72   Ireland
Jane Jones   Visitor   F   15   Wales
Mary Jones   Servant   F   32   Wales
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Yes thank you
I have done some phone calling today so hope to hear soon
 been looking for graves in wrong place
Yep she left money to her brother 1929 William Jones
Thanks
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 05:17:50 PM
DVT ,
Thank you for all that Anne Rogerson nee Mcgill past away in 1862 London
and WBR went on his way to Liverpool so he is in the 1871 census also my grandmother as a servant
married in Dublin and went back to or around Llangefni, Anglesey  where she came from.
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 30, 2018, 09:44:05 PM
DVT,
Yep he was very rich
 houses in Dublin London Liverpool
was a ESQ William Bell Rogerson But lost the lot Poor guy
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on October 31, 2018, 05:13:13 PM
HUGO,
  spot on,
Both WBR & Mary are in one of the churches in Llangwyllog or graveyards but did not know which one
could be St Cwyllog's Church in Llangwyllog but don't know. Forshaw
AE.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on October 31, 2018, 10:16:52 PM
As far as I can tell from Google there is only one graveyard in Llangwyllog, there are 4 nearby in Llangefni but  you need to focus on St Cwyllog first and find out who has the records of the burials in that Church.
Perhaps the Anglesey Archives at Llangefni should be your starting point

Their e-mail address is
archives@ynysmon.gov.uk
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 01, 2018, 12:17:10 AM
Hugo,
Been told today WBR  1877 & Mary Rogerson  1929 also Mary Anne Rogerson 1941 are in a grave together
in Llangwyllog.
Anglesey Archives at Llangefni  told me today But as no stone on the grave it's not put on the records 
but should give  the church a  ring and may get it that way
  but cannot find the phone number.
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Cambrian on November 01, 2018, 08:01:28 AM
anneelaine

Llangwyllog church now forms part of the Bro Elyth mission area.  The vicar for the area is Rev Kevin Ellis and his phone number is
01407 831525.
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on November 01, 2018, 12:17:29 PM
Cambrian,
Thank you so much for the number
AE
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 06, 2019, 11:50:01 PM
Hugo,
Trying to find out about the George Rogerson who had the Mill Gyffin he was a Merchant I have just found out
 My Gt grandfather was also a Merchant  Mmmmm need to see what I can find out about this.
still looking thanks Anneelaine  $hands$
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 07, 2019, 03:37:37 AM
Hugo
Where is this house please?
I am thinking maybe we did not go to Pensarn farm in 67/68
But to his cousin farm around the same place. so would think it would be Davies or Hughes (No a lot of help I know )
Been looking at everything over again
and we have got 2 houses that look sort of the same
as what it looks like in my eyes thanks.
 Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 07, 2019, 11:54:25 AM
I'm not sure where that place is and unfortunately I am having to use the computer at the library as my own laptop has crashed.     I'm only guessing but I have seen a building like that and I think that it's in Pabo Lane not far from where Pensarn Farm once was
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 07, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Hi Hugo,
I was thinking that. the more I think about it It may have not been Pensarn farm we went to Because it was not very big
but lots of land but it was by the black cat roundabout on that lane
 Going to see if I can find it this weekend if poss.
Thanks,
 Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 11, 2019, 11:29:01 PM
Hi.
William Bell Rogerson,  born 1910 just seen this, was notified in 2012 by an RM Callingham about WB In Llandudno I think!!!
 Would not think many Callingham about $hands$
Thanks, Anneelaine,
 $booboo$ cannot find the name anywhere nowhere to be seen
 BUT after saying that the name rings a bell Why!!! Only  Callingham no first name at all coming into my mind.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 12, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
 ))* I should stop digging Mmmmm,
Just found a Maud Rogerson

Death   
 1947 Liverpool South, Lancashire, England
it is saying she was married to WBR the second my Grandfather  But he was still married to my grandmother in 1940 when he got run over in Liverpool
because he had no will; his money went to, Jane  Rogerson my gran, Mmmmm (she had not divorced him.) I know that for sure.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 19, 2019, 01:03:53 AM
Hi,
 Just found an address, anyone, nowhere it is, please it should be a farm Frith Y Vaul Glan Conway
 thanks
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: DVT on May 19, 2019, 09:29:38 AM
Hi anneelaine ...
... suspect you have found Ffrith y Foel (pronunciation would be the same but Vaul would not be a Welsh spelling!) - go back to page 21 of this topic where Hugo and I have mentioned it, Hugo with photos!
Regards
Dave
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: Hugo on May 19, 2019, 12:22:56 PM
It's a nice looking property and I took those photos after DVT  found the place.       It's just off the A470 as you are driving south from Glan Conwy.    Go past Nev's garage and Talgoed Nursery and at the top of the hill there is a staggered cross road where you turn left and the property is less than 100 yards away
You can view it on Google street view

Quite often you come across Welsh names that have been spelt incorrectly so it can make it harder to find
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on May 20, 2019, 08:36:40 PM
DVT, spot on
you put this a little time ago
1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.
 James Evens, Ann Evens, (Nee Davies) Gertrude is the   Niece
thanks
Title: Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
Post by: anneelaine on September 23, 2019, 08:34:55 PM
Hugo,
I have been reading everything been sent and was looking at Page 5 the graves and things James Rogerson so I started looking into it and came across this.
James Rogerson
England and Wales Census, 1891





Name:   
James Rogerson
Event Type:   
Census
Event Date:   
1891
County:   
Lancashire
Ecclesiastical Parish:   
CHRISTCHURCH
Registration District:   
Barton Upon Irwell
Gender:   
Male
Age:   
29
Marital Status:   
Married
Occupation:   
Buyer For Ship & Merchant
Relationship to Head of Household:   
Head
Birth Year (Estimated):   
1862
Birthplace:   
Lancashire, England
Page Number:   
12
Registration Number:   
RG12
Piece/Folio:   
3154/ 36
Household   Role   Sex   Age   Birthplace
James Rogerson   Head   Male   29   Lancashire, England
Mary F Rogerson   Wife   Female   27   Lancashire, England
Sydney J Rogerson   Son   Male   1   Lancashire, England
WBR father was a Merchant
so need to see now if I can find an address in or around rhos on sea  &well& thanks guys