Mary Jane Davies

[dusty]

I'm helping my uncle trace his family tree, we're stuck.we are looking for his grandparents, Mary jane Davies and Huw Davies .Their children were, margaret Jane , elisabeth and maimie. Any information that might be out there would be really appreciated .we believe there is a connection to Pen Y Groesffordd cottages in penrhynside. Mary is buried in llanrhos cemetery ,but we can't find a grave.dates are around1875 to 1925.

[Cambrian]

I have checked the Ken Dibble book on Penrhynside but I am afraid there seems to be no record of the people you mention at Penygroesfordd not generally in the village.  Mary's grave location should be found in the Gwynedd Family History record of the Churchyard.  A copy of this will be at the County Archives or the Library - I am sure Hugo will be able to advise on this aspect.

[Hugo]

The graves for Huw and Mary should be easy to trace from the Burial Indexes in the Conwy Archives as they are listed alphabetically.
I could have a look for you next week unless someone can find out beforehand.

[dusty]

Thank you both  for your interest in this, that's kind of you.This lady is quite a mystery,we seem to be stumbling at the first hurdle. It would be lovely if someone  could check the burial records for us. I wonder where pen y Groesffordd  comes into it then, or could that be a piece of misinformation..

[Hugo]

Dusty, I called at the Archives today and looked at the Burial Index for St Hilary's Church Llanrhos.   These Burial Indexes list all the graves with inscriptions on them and the people are also listed alphabetically so it's easy to trace.
However there is no Huw Davies or Mary Jane Davies listed there.  I tried other variants like Hugh and Mary but again they are not listed.
Just in case I tried St Tudno's, Llangystennin and Glanwydden but again their names are not listed.
This does not mean that they are not buried there but that a headstone with an inscription is not listed in the usual place.
I checked the Street Indexes for 1911,1914 and 1929 but they are not listed at Pen Y Groesffordd either.
I looked on Ancestry but because your information is vague I couldn't trace them. I tried different formulas but recorded about 54,000 hits each time.
It would help to narrow the search if you could provide further details such as where each person was born, when approximately were they born, roughly when they died and where were they living when they died  (town or county)

[dusty]

hi Hugo ,thank you for looking , that's kind of you. I've spoken to my uncle ,he was told his grandparents where in llanrhos, with no stone maybe,all he was told was that they were near a tree ! his mother remembered being in penrhynside and a mrs Roberts always shouting at them to go to the shop for her.unfortunately with the passing of all these people information  goes with them. he's going to see if he can find any old paperwork that might give him an idea for his next move. again thanks Hugo

[Hugo]

Hi Dusty, if there was no stone on the grave it could be the reason why the grave is not listed in the Burial Index as they only record the ones with headstones.  Obviously the Church has records of all the burials and they may be able to help.
The Street Indexes help as they are alphabetical but the earliest I could see were for 1911.
Ancestry is a good way of getting information and the Census records go from 1841 to 1911 but you need to narrow the search field down by getting some of the info I mentioned previously. You don't need to be exact with dates but places of birth do help.
Just as an example how old is your Uncle now?   If you allow say 50 years from the year your Uncle was born it gives you a very rough guide to when his Grandparents were born and that helps to reduce the odds on finding them.
There is a lot of info in the Conwy Archives and on line and I am sure that something will turn up.

[Hugo]

Dusty,  there are now two Cemeteries in Llanrhos,  St Hilary's that has graves in the old Churchyard and the Llanrhos Lawn Cemetery which is run by the Council but that wasn't opened for burials until the 1970's I think and both Cemeteries have large trees in them.
While I was in the Archives today I looked at 3 fascinating books on Penrhynside that were written by Ken Dibble.
They were "Penrhynside houses and families"  Parts 1 and 2 and they described the houses and the people who lived in them over the years.
The third book was called "Penrhynside Historical and Social Survey" and amongst other things was an alphabetical index of the people he had listed as living in the houses at Parts 1 and 2.    I had a look at them and there was no Huw Davies listed but there was a Hugh Davies who lived at 2 Pengerddi (on Bryn Gwynt Lane now) and he died in May 1906 aged 61.
The Davies family were not listed as living at Penygroesffordd at any time.

[dusty]

hi Hugo, well that's interesting,I'll have to get back to my unle on this, who by the way is about 70-75. Pengerddi that's a new name that hasn't come up before. I think a trip to the church to look through burial records is a good idea as well.thanks.

[suepp]

Hello Dusty, I don't know if this is relevent but Hugh Davies married Mary Hughes in 1898 at Eglwysrhos. SS Eleri and Mary (not sure what this last bit means)  not really enough to go on, but it might help to do an earlier census search. Going by your uncles age, they would probably have appeared on the 1911 census as a married couple and possibly in 1901 also. I'll have a look on Ancestry.

[Hugo]

Hi Dusty,  because of your Uncle's age that Hugh Davies from 2 Pengerddi cannot be the Grandfather, but Suepp's new info could be promising.
The grandfather will be in the 1911 Census and possibly the two earlier ones but I hope Suepp has more luck than me because the least hits I had on Huw Davies was 14,000.   It threw up every Davies that had a Christian name that started with H.
If Suepp has found your Uncle's Grandparents then the connection to Peny groesffordd  could be the Hughes family and not the Davies family that I was looking for.
Suepp in your 1929 Street Index is there a Huw Davies recorded in Llandudno or Penrhynside and is a Hughes recorded at Penygroesffordd in Penrhynside?

[dusty]

hi Suepp and Hugo, I've tried to find out anything I can ,might not be of much significance ,but here goes. Hugh was a horse dealer / horse breaker in Penrhynside,we think maybe Penryn Isa farm. my uncles mother was called Margaret  Jane ,it says born Davies on her death certificate. we have the death certificate for the second oldest child and she was born in 7 April  1898. So Margaret was born before that.There is a lot of Hughes in the family. Elisabeth in her old age said her and Margaret were step sisters and on another occasion said that Hugh and Mary rescued Margaret Jane from some gypsies in Morfa. Whether this was old age talk or not we don't know. So our mystery deepens.

[Hugo]

Dusty have a look at Yre Rofft pg 1 in the same category as yours and you might find something of interest re Hugh Hughes at Pentre Isa

[suepp]

In the 1929 Directory there is a Jas (James) Hughes at 2 Pen-y-Groesfordd. There are several Hugh Davies in Llandudno at  various addresses in town, but none at Penrhynside. Residing at Pentre Isa Farms J. Wilson Quarry Foreman

 I haven't anything at Ancestry yet but will have another go.

[Cambrian]

Su - slightly off topic.  SS Eleri and Mary above.  This is simply a variation of the dedication of Llanrhos Parish Church.  In this case the Welsh form of Hilary has been used (Eleri).  Now it is more commonly simply referred to as St Hilary's. St Mary was also used in the original name of Llanrhos or Eglwysrhos Parish which was Llanfair yn Rhos.