Llandudno Christmas Illuminations

[Yorkie]

Why don't you try and get them all round a table then?   WWW

[wrex]

To be fair Yorkie don;t you think it should be Cll Bertola the Chairman of the decorative lighting committee who should be trying all ways to improve Llandudno at xmas,that was his answer to me 2 years ago ,you approach Parc Llandudno and let me know,i told him to get off his backside and do it himself.Just imagine if Parc Llandudno did put some lighting up,it would;nt cost the council a penny,but they cannot be bothered.

[Yorkie]

To be fair Wrex, it should be the whole effin' council who should get off their ar ses and do something, not just BBB.  I'm still waiting for the Council to sort out an email problem that has been going on since March.  A few weeks ago they were going to get an EXPERT in to sort it.  The EXPERT arrived from Kindways I am told and was going to wave his magic wand.  Result is today the problem is worse than ever, yet my Son and others have suggested a solution which the Council and those they employed have totally ignored.

So you see I know how you feel.   

I feel sorry for those poor innocent Councillors who are not aware of what is going on but who will have to cough up out of their own pockets when action is taken and the damages are awarded   WWW

Unfortunately these so called innocents don't get involved in the Council business they just seem content to have the kudos (if any exists) by being seen as a Councillor.   And as you and I know you have to get involved or the old gang will ride rough shod over you.

[Ian]

Unfortunately these so called innocents don't get involved in the Council business they just seem content to have the kudos (if any exists) by being seen as a Councillor.

Local councils - like any locally-elected organisations - are inevitably constructs of Parkinsons' Law which works to ensure that, as the council grows, less and less is inevitably accomplished. On a pragmatic note, such is the disdain in which a local council is held by most people, few are willing to serve as councillors. This forum offers a way for local councillors to  communicate with at least the computer-savvy portion of the local electorate, yet - to the best of my knowledge - none has actually taken part.

[Yorkie]

Should anyone wish to attend and see what actually goes on. The next Meeting of the Full Council will be at the Town Hall, Lloyd Street on 9th. November and should start about 7.00 p.m.   Then it will break at about 7.30 for tea and coffee and some idle chatter amongst Members, probably about me and the Three Towns Forum and Oscar.  Then the meeting will reconvene and minor discussions will be held.   At the end some Members may adjourn to the Mayor's Parlour for alcoholic refreshment (at the expense of the ratepayer).  This has included some rather exotic drinks that one would not generally find other than in an expensive cocktail bar,  in  the past including such as Glenmorangie and Drambuie.  Good taste these Councillors have, to be sure!   Z**

Still, when you're spending other peoples money it don't really matter, does it?   WWW   WWW   WWW

[wrex]

I was in Manchester yesterday,all xmas lights are up ready to make Manchester a pleasant and festive place to go and do your xmas shopping,now i do not want to compare Llandudno to any of the big shopping cities but the concept is the same so why do our councillors insist on leaving the illuminations switched off until late November,surely the idea is the same as any other shopping center,help the buisnesses you have left ,not one councillor even gives the town center another thought and as for the so called xmas lights i will say nomore.

[Llechwedd]

Probably because we have to go through Halloween and Bonfire night yet.  The lights shouldn't go on until beginning of December it's ridiculouse that the Chitsmas season is stretched out.  Any minute niow the teddy bears will go up in the Victoria Centre.  Remind me again which Gospel are they in?

[Yorkie]

  Any minute now the teddy bears will go up in the Victoria Centre.  Remind me again which Gospel are they in?

A couple went into the Ark with old Noah and they just bred like teddy bears do! 
 

[DaveR]

Probably because we have to go through Halloween and Bonfire night yet.  The lights shouldn't go on until beginning of December it's ridiculouse that the Chitsmas season is stretched out.  Any minute niow the teddy bears will go up in the Victoria Centre.  Remind me again which Gospel are they in?

I think a month before Christmas Day would a reasonable compromise, so a switch on around 25th November?

[Ian]

The lights shouldn't go on until beginning of December it's ridiculouse that the Chitsmas season is stretched out.  Any minute niow the teddy bears will go up in the Victoria Centre.  Remind me again which Gospel are they in?

Couple of points, here;  Christmas has virtually nothing to do with the Gospels or - for that matter - any religion. It's a derivation of dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer.

But the Christmas season itself - a largely secular occasion, despite what some die-hard church goers would have you believe - is essentially a brightening up of the long winter nights. Twinkling lights,  ornamented trees and decorative tinsel do a lot to lift the natural, light-deprived depression that afflicts many in the North hemisphere at this time of year. Christmas lighting should appear immediately after November 5th, IMHO.

[Fester]

25th December, (Dec being the 10th month), was in Roman times the Feast of Saturnalia.

This continued into the 5th Century AD, when there became a need to celebrate the birth of Christ, and this date seemed to be the most acceptable all round.

To say that only a few die-hard church goers celebrate Christmas as a religious event is somewhat cynical, and wide of the mark.

In Schools, care-homes, families homes and elsewhere throughout the country you will find nice and decent people who will celebrate Christmas in a pleasant (and predominantly religious) way.
It may not be politically correct to do so these days, but I hope that the children of the UK will be encouraged to do just that.

Some things just need to stay special.  %0%

[Ian]

To say that only a few die-hard church goers celebrate Christmas as a religious event is somewhat cynical, and wide of the mark

That's not quite what I said. But, since you raise the issue, let's examine the figures.

A report on "Churchgoing in the UK" published by Tearfund in April 2007 showed that 15% were attending a Church at least once a month. However, the non-affiliated NatCen social attitudes research institution reveals that  - by 2010 - the overall figure had dropped to 14% and that figures for those who purport to be C of E had halved between 1983 and 2010. Of those who do attend some church, Roman Catholics numbered 9%, Other non-conformist religions totalled 15% and the C of E had 20%.  However, broken down by age group,. the figure is even more alarming. More than two thirds of the 18 - 24 yr old age group do not belong to any religion, while among the over-65s the proportion reduces to  28%.

Thus, in a supposedly Christian country a relatively small minority actually attend church and believe in God. Now, what are the fastest growing religions?  According to the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion by number of conversions each year: "Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world. In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity".  This, however doesn't tell the whole story by a long way.

Christmas is an interesting issue. You may not be aware, Fester, that the majority of Christian sects don't celebrate Christmas, regarding it rather as a 'papist invention'. It took quite a while for the non-conformist religions to accept it at all (Easter has always occupied the most important date in the Christian Church calendar), so if you compare those who celebrate Christmas against those who actually believe in Christianity you reach a surprising conclusion: the majority of people in the UK celebrate Christmas as a secular event; a relatively small minority celebrate it as a religious event.

There are a number or reasons why this is so.  The fastest growing religions in the UK are Islam, Bahai, Sikhism, Jainism and Hinduism in that order. These are followed by Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology and several other small but fiercely proselytising minority sects, whose attendance figures in percentage terms outstrip those of the established church and - most importantly - who don't celebrate Christmas.  Jehovah's Witnesses ( or Witnesses, as they prefer to be known) don't allow any aspect of the festive season in their houses whatsoever. They will not allow their children to sing any Xmas songs, or even any songs which are not Christmas but have a seasonal slant - Jingle Bells, for instance.

If we look again at what I did say:  "But the Christmas season itself - a largely secular occasion, despite what some die-hard church goers would have you believe the figures confirm, the fact that it is - in fact - a largely secular occasion, which is - actually - all I was saying.

[DaveR]

Christmas is a consumerist celebration , rather than anything else. When I think of all the people I know, very few view it in any sort of religious context at all. You do get a few people who go to Church at Christmas, then ignore it the rest of the year.

What I do see is a lot of people with not much money getting themselves deeper into debt every Christmas in order to buy presents for people that they neither really want nor need, together with people getting angry and stressed in the run up to it all.

You can talk about how it's a time for families etc, but you don't need to be religious to do that.

 

[Fester]

I think Ian, you are looking at the whole Christmas thing a little too scientifically.
I would never dispute your figures, (what would be the point, you would only counter that with even more) ... but all I am saying is that  think many families and institutions keep a religious aspect to Christmas, without being actively religious themselves.

Dave, Christmas has become FAR too commercialised in recent times.. that saddens me too.
I have found myself wondering ''have I spent enough on so-and-so?'', had arguments with Mrs Fester over who we should buy for and who not... and yes, there is quite a degree of stress attached to Christmas.
Not least of which, who's family will we spend Xmas with!!   A perennial nightmare that.

However, I actually believe that it does society good to have a religious aspect to Christmas. It should be maintained and respected.
Only a curmudgeon would witness a kids nativity school play at Christmas and say that it was a wrong thing to do...
Religious or not!

[Ian]

all I am saying is that  think many families and institutions keep a religious aspect to Christmas, without being actively religious themselves.

They may well do, F, but it doesn't alter what I was saying.But when you say

I actually believe that it does society good to have a religious aspect to Christmas.

I doubt majority of society agrees, particularly the Humanists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims. atheists, agnostics, etc. You have a warm, fuzzy memory of Christmas, F, which is delightful;  but I fear it bears little relation to reality. And I'm curious which religion you mean?