Social housing

[DaveR]

Apparently many people like to pick fault and correct others who may have used the wrong tense or syntax in Welsh. So, if this was happening to a perfectly fluent Welsh speaker, what chance would I have?

Is this like the infamous shop in Wales where everyone starts speaking Welsh as soon as an English person walks in? I've never heard of anyone having their Welsh corrected.

[Fester]

Maybe you should get out more?   

Diolch yn fawr.

[Fester]

I missed an opportunity there...
When I first went to Llanrwst, I went into a confectioners where English was being spoken, until I opened my big mouth.  At which point it seemed that the whole world spoke only Welsh.
I just shrugged my enormous, muscular shoulders    and put it down to experience.

On numerous occasions, people come in to my shop speaking Cymraeg to each other.... then they converse with me in English for a while, but then have discussions between themselves about the transaction in Welsh again.

I find that quite rude, but I have to remember that Indians, Pakistanis, Polish people etc... all do the same to me regularly, and I need to address my paranoia.
I suppose I do that Spanish shopkeepers when I'm in Spain... 

[TheMedz]

I did jury service in Caernarfon just over a year ago on a bi-lingual case where some of the witnesses requested to give their evidence in Welsh. We were equipped with head sets and had a real time translation of the welsh speaking elements of the case. Some of the Welsh speaking jurors also had the English elements translated into Welsh. A fairly lurid case but a fascinating experience.

[Nemesis]

Same thing happened to me at a planning meeting-- a very strange experience !

[DaveR]

I missed an opportunity there...
When I first went to Llanrwst, I went into a confectioners where English was being spoken, until I opened my big mouth.  At which point it seemed that the whole world spoke only Welsh.
I just shrugged my enormous, muscular shoulders    and put it down to experience.

Why would people who speak Welsh as their first language be speaking in English? They may use the odd English phrase in the conversation but that's about it. Did the assistant speak to you in Welsh after you spoke to her in English?

And what is rude about them speaking Welsh in your shop - it is the language they use all day long? Remember, you're in their country, not the other way round! I don't suppose you were offended enough not to take their money! 

[Yorkie]

 Remember, you're in their country . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And unfortunately some of them are rather over possessive about it!   

[Hugo]

 Remember, you're in their country . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And unfortunately some of them are rather over possessive about it!   

It reminds me of an article I read in the NWWN some years ago.   Two elderly ladies were visiting the Welsh Mountain Zoo in Colwyn Bay and they overheard people speaking in Welsh.  One said to the other in a voice loud enough to be heard  "I don't know why they are speaking in that foreign language because we are in England after all! "
Just shows you that age is not a barrier to ignorance.

[Fester]

 Remember, you're in their country . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And unfortunately some of them are rather over possessive about it!   

Did you say Obsessive Yorkie?

Actually, the more I think about this, the more ludicrous it is.
People from South Wales speaking Cymraeg in my shop usually get short shrift from locals, who in the main don't seem to like South Walians for some reason.

I was born closer to Llandudno than they were, 116 miles as the crow flies, and a drive of 1hr 50 mins.

You try getting to Cardiff (Caerdydd) in that time.

Does that not by definition make me more local than them?

[DaveR]

 Remember, you're in their country . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And unfortunately some of them are rather over possessive about it!   

Not in comparison to England. BNP, English Defence League ring any bells? When was the last time you saw a march in Wales protesting about immigrants? 

[Yorkie]

Having done a fair bit of travelling in my time, I have always found that each country uses its own language in respect of the country's administration, road signs, and everything concerned with day to day living.   Why then does Wales not establish its identity by utilising its own language in all matters, instead of producing everything bilingually?  Apart from anything else it would save a fortune.

I would not object, although there probably would be a load of incomers who would.   Because both languages are in general use it makes it easy for the people from England to migrate here.   Take that away and Llechwedd's problem is solved!

It would probably only take one generation for Welsh to become the predominant, and truly National, language.

[Hugo]

Yorkie, countries can get by even if they are bilingual as Belgium and other countries do.   All  one expects is tolerance, understanding and respect for the other language.
Welsh is one of the oldest languages in the British Isles but was not recognised officially until recent years so you can understand how some people are peeved at the treatment given to the Welsh language.
My walking mate's father lived on a farm in Porthmadog yet was banned from speaking Welsh in school.   It sounds oppressive now especially when you hear Urdu,Hindi and so on being spoken in English school yards nowadays and nothing is said about it.

[Yorkie]

Well said Hugo!  So now let's get back to the start and ask that the Welsh also be tolerant of the people who have decided to come and live in this green and pleasant land!

Let's not have all this rubbish about OAP's invading the Welsh resorts and pushing up house prices.   Let's have an end to making some immigrants feel unwelcome.   Let's stop burning holiday cottages and shouting from the rooftops that Wales is for the Welsh and everyone should speak the language!

Maybe then we will feel and understand the real Heireith!   

I don't think people generally do not have respect for the language, but it is rather rude when English is being spoken, and rapidly switches to Welsh when a non-welsh person enters.  The language barrier is a two way problem and there has to be tolerance on BOTH sides!

[DaveR]

it is rather rude when English is being spoken, and rapidly switches to Welsh when a non-welsh person enters.  The language barrier is a two way problem and there has to be tolerance on BOTH sides!

I've never known that happen, though, and I spend more time travelling around North Wales than practically anyone on this forum? As I said before, why would people who speak Welsh all day long suddenly decide to speak English? It's as ridiculous as the idea that you would walk into a shop in France and they would all be speaking English, then switch into French! 

When we talk about tolerance, it should be remembered it is the Welsh people that speak two languages and the English that speak only one. Who is therefore making more effort to be tolerant? 

[Yorkie]

it is rather rude when English is being spoken, and rapidly switches to Welsh when a non-welsh person enters.  The language barrier is a two way problem and there has to be tolerance on BOTH sides!

I've never known that happen, though, and I spend more time travelling around North Wales than practically anyone on this forum? As I said before, why would people who speak Welsh all day long suddenly decide to speak English? It's as ridiculous as the idea that you would walk into a shop in France and they would all be speaking English, then switch into French! 

When we talk about tolerance, it should be remembered it is the Welsh people that speak two languages and the English that speak only one. Who is therefore making more effort to be tolerant? 

The Welsh (or some of them) speak both languages because they have been brought up learning both from childhood.

My schooling concentrated on teaching the English language until the age of 11 then a foreign language was introduced for the last five years of Secondary Education.  Had my teachers had foresight they would maybe have taught me Welsh instead of German!

In the mean time since leaving school, I have learnt some French, Portuguese and Japanese.  My wife also has French and Portuguese.  Consequently we are not ignorant of other countries or their individual languages and are tolerant of all of them, including Welsh. 

Your comment about the French borders on the ridiculous as France is not a bi-lingual country and the French would be unlikely to be conversing in English!

Some years ago I came down from Scotland to buy some equipment that had been in use on the construction of Dinorwig Power Station.  I had my engineer with me, who was a Welshman, but who had developed a slight Scottish accent.  We went out for a pub meal and in the bar as we walked in English was being spoken, that is until after we had started our conversation, when it immediately switched to Welsh.    The group spent the next half hour denigrating the British, or English.  How do I know? - My engineer spoke fluent Welsh - and as we left he gave a mouthful of advice to the group and even managed to elicit an apology from them on my behalf.   This is not the only experience of such bad manners that I, and no doubt others, have experienced.

I presume you are a Welsh speaker and such an action would probably go unnoticed.