Social housing

[Yorkie]

What rubbish, piffle and drivel!

When I came here we moved from Tamworth in Staffordshire and after buying our property up here, which was a darn sight bigger than the one we left, I had £10,000 change in my pocket!

I have looked at moving back "dahn sahf" to be nearer the kids but the difference in prices of property is horrendous!   Certainly can't match what we have at the moment without adding another 100K on top!
 :rage:

And please stop using that term OAP, it went out with the Ark!   

[Nemesis]

Phoo you should be so lucky ! £10.000
 

[Fester]

Llechwedd, I think you are generalising far too much.

I originally bought my house in Llandudno to use as a holiday home, and planned to retire here in future.
You might not agree with that, but this house had been for sale for ages, and local people had ample opportunity to buy it.
This was 2006, and I have to say that some of the houses that were for sale back then, are STILL for sale today!

However, due the wonderful people I have met, (neighbours and friends), and the nature of the town itself, I could not bear to leave Llandudno each weekend, and made immediate plans to live AND WORK here.

The point I would raise here is that I actually dispute the need to build ANY new houses.
The forecasts for housing needs are now years out of date, they come from before the credit crunch.
There are empty houses everywhere in this area and no shortage of availability of property.
The problem is being able to afford it!

[Merddin Emrys]

The point I was trying to make is that oap's come here from England and buy up flats and houses at inflated prices which locals can't afford.  They are a huge drain on the infrastucture just talk to anyone from Social Services. If many houses are to be built then I think that they should be for locals who can afford thenm rather than yet more non locals.  I wan't having a go at you Merddyn so why take offence you are not old yet.

Looks like I did read it right the first time round, so I will need to move back to England when I'm 65?
When we bought the first house near Porthmadog it was from very friendly local Welsh people who had been trying to sell the house for two years! Don't forget 'local' people sold the houses in the first place and the problem of second homes applies to Cornwell, Devon, etc just the same. I always thought if I want to move to any part of the uk then I can, don't forget we are all paying council tax etc living here.  We will have to agree to disagree on this subject I think 

[DaveR]

the problem of second homes applies to Cornwell, Devon, etc just the same.

Not quite the same. Wales is a separate country, with a different language, culture etc. It stands to reason that a large influx of incomers can put that language and culture under threat.

As an example of this, can I ask how many people here who have moved from England have bothered to even attempt learning Welsh?

[Merddin Emrys]

I had an attempt at some Welsh when living near Porthmadog, but unless you are very good at languages (which I'm not!) then it's very difficult to learn it. As you know Dave, I'm very pro Welsh language etc, but that doesn't automatically give you the ability to do it .

[DaveR]

Again, ME, it doesn't apply to you as you have had a go at learning it. Many people who move into the area just (sadly) refuse to do so.

Here's some useful phrases to get you started :
http://www.clwbmalucachu.co.uk/cmc/cheat/cheat_swearing.htm
(People of a sensitive (or maybe sensible) disposition are not advised to click the link)

[Merddin Emrys]

Great link, I'm intrigued by the word 'corris' as it's a place I have been to many times (there is a preserved railway there)

[TheMedz]

We are trying to learn it to help us understand rather than to try and speak the language. My mother's side of the family as all welsh and I knew a small amount  before I came to live here but at my age that unfortunately hasn't made it any easier. Still trying though.

[Yorkie]

Wales is a separate country, with a different language, culture etc. It stands to reason that a large influx of incomers can put that language and culture under threat.

As an example of this, can I ask how many people here who have moved from England have bothered to even attempt learning Welsh?

I tried, and do manage to use the usual pleasantries but as has already been said, Welsh is a very difficult language to learn.  Even more so, when the brain has passed its sell by date.

Notwithstanding your comment, there are more Welsh people who don't speak the country's language that those who do.  This would tend to indicate that the people themselves are creating the demise of their own language and culture.   As long as Wales wants to be a separate country the division will remain.

Almost the rest of the UK has a system of multiculturalism where integration of the differing ethnic groups is seen as the best way to a harmonious society.

As an after note, my wife is Welsh born and bred but was not educated under a Welsh system and having left home to work in France and London after leaving college, was never in a position to need or seek to learn the language.   She does however speak two other European languages (apart from English) that are useful throughout the modern World.

I see us as being members of the United Kingdom, rather than being placed in one special box or category!

[Nemesis]

My OH and I have also picked up a smattering of Welsh, but not enough to speak or understand a lot of it. We would both love to learn, but business commitments prevented us when we first came here and now we feel that age would be against us.
We both learned French and Spanish and find that many words of Welsh can be similar or have a similar stem to these languages.

[DaveR]

Notwithstanding your comment, there are more Welsh people who don't speak the country's language that those who do.  This would tend to indicate that the people themselves are creating the demise of their own language and culture.   As long as Wales wants to be a separate country the division will remain.

But the usage of Welsh is increasing, so I don't understand how you come to that conclusion?

Wales is a separate country, there is no ambiguity about it.  Has Wales benefited from being part of the UK? Not really, the GDP per head in Wales was a pathetic 68.4 % of the European average in 2009 - that is appalling and the result of many decades of indifference from the London Government towards Wales, especially with regard to economic development. Now that same economic weakness is used as an argument as to why Wales couldn't survive as an independent country - how ironic! 

[Yorkie]

But the usage of Welsh is increasing, so I don't understand how you come to that conclusion?

There may be an increase in the use of the Welsh language in actual numbers but I think you will find that the percentage of Welsh speakers in the community has changed very little.   

[DaveR]

But the usage of Welsh is increasing, so I don't understand how you come to that conclusion?

There may be an increase in the use of the Welsh language in actual numbers but I think you will find that the percentage of Welsh speakers in the community has changed very little.

The % numbers of Welsh speakers have been climbing since the nadir of the early 1990s. It only reached a nadir, it should be noted, because of the deliberate policy of not allowing pupils to be taught in Welsh in schools. When I was growing up for example, there was no school locally where you could be taught in Welsh, it was only available to be studied as a second language.

[Fester]

'When in Rome' eh Dave?

I see that we have veered of the topic of Social Housing and down some kind of Nationalistic cul de sac.
A subject I don't mend debating at all, but it seems a little misplaced to have it here.

Nevertheless, my grandparents were Welsh, but moved to England before WWII, so perhaps I was only on loan to England for a generation?  Who knows, and its of no importance to me.

I have had a dabble with learning Cymraeg, (did you see what I did there eh?) ..mainly from a phrase book and local friends.
Even Merddin Emrys passed on a few phrases to me, Dave R has too... but I let it all lapse for two important reasons.

1, I realised that I wasn't very good at it, plus the fact that it wasn't really THAT critical seeing as Cymraeg is not the first language of Wales.   When I worked in France I was forced to try harder, because some (the minority) of business meetings were held in French.  I was rubbish at that too.

2, A local friend of mine (born in Gyffin) who was brought up devoutly to speak Welsh and is flawless at it, no longer speaks it.  What a terrible shame I thought. He maintains that this is because of the snobbery around the subject.
Apparently many people like to pick fault and correct others who may have used the wrong tense or syntax in Welsh. So, if this was happening to a perfectly fluent Welsh speaker, what chance would I have?