great orme cemetery

[dwsi]

Entries for John Roberts on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website
Casualty Details http://bit.ly/npnrzs
Certificate http://bit.ly/rueCU6

[emma p]

Ive just e-mailed my pictures to dave and asked him to very kindly post them for me. I read all of your post out to my sister over the phone and she broke her heart like i knew she would ! The grave looks so peaceful in that beautiful setting and the newspaper cutting is very very moving.
This, we now know is why John was not buried with his mother, which we found strange. I'll bet Annie is in that churchyard too.
There is still a lot to uncover and our search is by no means over !!!!
Ive only been home for two days but i cant wait to get back now !!!
Hopefully pics will be on tomorrow for you to see and translate.

[Fester]

Hugo, Emma and all...
It is threads like this that make the Forum worthwhile.
A very poignant and interesting trail of events.
Hugo, it is to your eternal credit that you went out of your way to unearth this information for Emma.
You have brought a lot of happiness (and sadness???  ) to a really nice family. 
Remember, I have met Emma's sister and her husband.  Thoroughly decent people.

Well done!

 

[suepp]

hear hear, it's threads like this that keep me on this forum, Hugo you're a star!

[DaveR]

Emma's photos:

1) John Roberts birthplace 1888. Tan-yr-ogo Cottages.(i dont as yet know which one).
2) 7 Jubilee Street. Roberts family residence in 1906.
3) Plas Tudno, Plas Road. Where John died in 1920. (This is now a centre for people with mental health issues)(We did some door knocking !).
4) Enoch and Ann Mary's grave on the Great Orme, including two of Johns brothers, Richard and Robert. (Can anyone translate )

Would like to add a big thankyou to all and for all their efforts and contributions to the search. This is by no means the end as other members of the family are yet to be found !!!!

[DaveR]

Two final photos from Emma to indicate the weather she was up against!

[Nemesis]

It isn't 20 mins. since I was standing in front of Enoch and Ann Mary's grave, It was the one I had spotted originally among quite a few Roberts graves. It was quite bleak and cold, but not as nasty as on the photo. There were an awful lot of people wandering in the graveyard--unusual ! Perhaps they were all seeking lost relatives.

[Hugo]

I went to  Colwyn Bay market today and popped into the Library for a while.  Emma knows this already but I had a look on the 1881 Census for Enoch Roberts and he was living at Tan Yr Ogo Cottages ( no number shown) by the time of the 1991 Census John had been born and the family had moved to 16 Jubilee Terrace Llandudno.
Enoch was born in Llangwstennin and his wife Mary in Penmon Anglesey.
Now the following info I can't verify for certain but shown in the 1871 Census was a boy called Enoch Roberts aged 18 who was born in Llangwstennin. He was shown as living at Bodafon Farm as an agriculture servant.
Bodafon Farm as most locals will know is the large farm at the end of the Promenade by the Paddling Pool. In 1871 the head of the household was John Williams a Land Agent and Farmer.
Another thing I found but can't confirm if it is the same Enoch Roberts is an entry in the births registered in Oct/Nov/Dec 1853 at the Sub Registry District of Conwy.  His registration is at Vol 11b pg 453.
That's more stuff to keep you busy when you next visit the town Emma. 
Here's a photo of the Bodafon Farm taken from the Little Orme

[Hugo]

Emma, here is the English translation of the headstone:-
In loving memory
of
Ann Mary Roberts
Dear wife of Enoch Roberts 7 Jubilee Street
Died May 10th 1918
Aged 62
Also Enoch Roberts
Dear husband of the above
Fell asleep May 30th 1930
Aged 76
Also Richard Roberts
Fell asleep February 25th 1956
Aged 67
Also Robert Roberts
Fell asleep February (can't read the date )  1961
Aged 60
The very last line I can't see on my computer and need to know the exact words to put it into context.  If you let me know then I'll translate that line too.

[emma p]

wow, Id say you were on to it Hugo ! Bodafon Farm !!! Been there so many times with the little'un.
Where is Llangwstennin ?
 
The last line on gravestone is - "Ac yma gwyn fy mya" and the date is 3ydd (3rd?) February.

Ive looked on the Commenwealth War Graves site as dwsi suggested and all Johns details are there....thanks. Only confusing thing is that Annie is down as living at 15, moore street wednesbury. (this is the street where her mom and dad live and where Richard(my grandad) was sent aged 14. mmmm ?
Guess my next mission is Annie. Ive got the number for Llanrhos church so il ring them to see if shes there.
I do have a faint recollection of searching there as a child with my mom-we were probably looking for John but you never know.

Fester- funny as it is, i have to set the record straight....the man with my sister, Lucy, is actually our Dad ! Since our mom died Lucy and Dad do alot together and as a family we all come to Llandudno once a year. But they do come together more often than we do.
It did make me smile though. Mom (Gwynneth) was the daughter of Richard Roberts(John and Annies eldest son). In my earlier pictures you can see her as a child holidaying with her mom and dad.

Speak soon all 

[Hugo]

"Ac yma gwyn fy mya"   I think the last word should be "myd"  and the meaning is " and blessed is my world here"

Llangwstennin is a very small village just north of the A55 by Mochdre which is near Colwyn Bay.

If Annie is buried in Llanrhos then her name should be in the same book that I found John's in. She would be listed alphabetically though and easier to find.

[tooly]

stunning thread, i think you are all a credit to humankind

[Fester]

Oh heck, Sorry Emma. 

Yes, I always thought ''she's a bit young for him''  .... but I never knew she was his daughter, because I never asked!

Bless them anyway, and you ... and I look forward to seeing them soon.

[Hugo]

When I saw the name of Enoch Roberts' employer his name rang a bell so I hope Emma doesn't mind if I post a snippet of Llandudno's early history on here.
In the 1840's Llandudno was a small self efficient Welsh speaking community of about a thousand people who earned their living mainly from copper mining and agriculture.  Their houses were mainly built on the lower slopes of the Great Orme and the heart of the village was in the area near the Kings Head pub. The land below was common land and people were able to graze their livestock on it. There were about 25 squatters hovels dotted about  on the common land on either side of what is now Mostyn Street.
In 1846 Owen Williams, a surveyor from Beaumaris in Anglesey visited Llandudno and looking down at the common land he thought it would be an ideal site for a fashionable new resort. He discussed this idea with the Copper mine owners over a meal at the Kings Head and John Williams the farmer at Bodafon and also Lord Mostyn's Land Agent was there and later dutifully told Lord Mostyn of Williams' plans.
Now Lord Mostyn an MP had proposed in Parliament an Enclosure Act in 1843.  This Act would now be called a con trick because the houses and the land belonging to the people living on the common would legally be stolen from them and he would then be the owner.
Lord Mostyn asked for a meeting with Owen Williams and the rest is history.   The commoners were evicted from their houses and the land was sold in 1849 while the people were still living in their houses.  By 1861 all the evictions had taken place. 
John Williams moved into Bodafon Hall in 1849 and the hall is the big white building behind the farm in the photo.

[Bri Roberts]

emma p, I have sent you a Private Message with a name and telephone number for you to phone for further information on the history of the Four Oaks Hotel.

Ah, sorry, those names are not familiar to me. My great grandmother must have been in service too. She was named Annie Webb before she married my great grandfather John Roberts.
She was born in Wednesbury and still there aged 17 in 1901 but living in Penrhyn Cres. by 1906 (the year she got married).

My Grandmother, Elizabeth Evans, was 25 years of age when she got married on the 14 October 1914. Her address was East Lynn, Penrhyn Crescent, Llandudno. She was a domestic servant but I do not know when she commenced employment at East Lynn.

One cannot rule out my Grandmother knowing or even working with your Great Grandmother, Annie Roberts.

By coincidence, my Grandmother also had a brother in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers who lost his life in the First World War.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=294330