Points to Ponder

[Helig]

I know of a case in Dumfries of a young man from Kuwait who claims he is 15 years of age and an asylum seeker. He is being housed in a local guest house which is charging ?60 per night for his accommodation. He has been there for 5 months. He receives ?70 per week in cash from social services. He has a smart phone, trainers worth ?200 (so I'm told not being an expert in these matters) and a new bike which cost c?180. It is thought he is older than he claims. He is consuming a vast amount of food and drink where he is staying. He has been known to steal things too. The council has told the guest house proprietor to charge them for the costs of everything he takes. Prior to this he was housed with a family and they couldn't afford the amount he ate and drank. Is it right that UK taxpayers fund this type of person? I am not aware of Kuwait being a country which would need to be fled from as an asylum seeker on genuine grounds. In any case there are safe countries to this much closer than the UK.

[Ian]

Myth: A popular myth circulated by those opposed to refugees coming to the UK is that people seeking safety in Europe must claim asylum in the first ?safe? country they land in.

Fact: Under the rules set out by the UN Refugee Convention, which the UK joined in the early 1950s, there is no obligation for asylum seekers to do so.

Myth: They?re just economic migrants

Fact: Home Office officials have confirmed that the majority of people crossing the Channel in small boats are genuine asylum seekers. It is impossible to know exactly what an individual?s circumstances are before they arrive in the UK and are assessed by the relevant authorities.

Myth: Asylum seekers are worsening overcrowding in the UK

Fact: A 2015 Ipsos MORI study found that, on average, the public vastly overestimated the number of foreign-born people living in the UK

Myth: The UK gets more asylum seekers than other European countries

Fact: ccording to figures collected by Eurostat, and shared in August by the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR), in 2019 France received 123,900 applications, while Germany received more than 142,000. In the same year, the UK received 35,566.

Myth: Asylum seekers are flocking to the UK to exploit a generous package of benefits.

Fact: The UNHCR has highlighted, asylum seekers in France receive almost exactly the same as they would in the UK (without risking their lives crossing the Channel) and are eligible for ?344 (?308) a month in Germany.

I could go on, but I suspect this is essentially an emotion-driven debate. Please remember the majority of the press is right wing and simply parrot what the Tories say.

[SteveH]

The Illegal Migration Bill is set to become law after the government won a final series of votes in the Lords.

The legislation is central to the prime minister's pledge to stop small boats crossing the English Channel.

Under the bill, the home secretary has a legal duty to detain and remove anyone entering the UK illegally.

In a late-night debate in the House of Lords, peers rejected attempts to reinsert time limits on child detention and modern slavery protections.

The bill will now go for royal assent and become law.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66229585

[Hugo]

Ian,   every one has an opinion on this emotional and controversial matter but statistics can be manipulated to suit a person's point of view and I've just added my thoughts to the points you have made

Myth: A popular myth circulated by those opposed to refugees coming to the UK is that people seeking safety in Europe must claim asylum in the first ?safe? country they land in.

Fact: Under the rules set out by the UN Refugee Convention, which the UK joined in the early 1950s, there is no obligation for asylum seekers to do so.

That is correct but the law was passed in 1951 and that was over 70 years ago and the world has changed since then.   Perhaps the law needs changing too

Myth: They?re just economic migrants

Fact: Home Office officials have confirmed that the majority of people crossing the Channel in small boats are genuine asylum seekers. It is impossible to know exactly what an individual?s circumstances are before they arrive in the UK and are assessed by the relevant authorities.

That is rubbish.   These illegal migrants are encouraged by the UK government to seek asylum when they set foot in the UK.   That immediately changes their status from illegal migrants to asylym seekers.   Seeing that there is a backlog of over 150,000 ?asylum seekers? in the UK then no one can say for certain that they are genuine asylum seekers

Myth: Asylum seekers are worsening overcrowding in the UK

Fact: A 2015 Ipsos MORI study found that, on average, the public vastly overestimated the number of foreign-born people living in the UK

That information needs to be updated for certain

Myth: The UK gets more asylum seekers than other European countries

Fact: according to figures collected by Eurostat, and shared in August by the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR), in 2019 France received 123,900 applications, while Germany received more than 142,000. In the same year, the UK received 35,566.asylum seekers

That could be true, but then both countries are much larger than the UK and can therefore accommodate more asylum seekers

 Myth: Asylum seekers are flocking to the UK to exploit a generous package of benefits.

Fact: The UNHCR has highlighted, asylum seekers in France receive almost exactly the same as they would in the UK (without risking their lives crossing the Channel) and are eligible for ?344 (?308) a month in Germany.

We don't see illegal migrants living in tents or sleeping rough  on beaches in the UK so why are they risking their lives crossing the Channel if it isn't for the general package of benefits in the UK?


I haven't got an answer on how to stop these illegal migrants coming in to the UK but judging from the inactivity coming from the House of Commons then I'm not the only one

[mull]

All this is costing a lot of money just to pander to the Right Wingers.

These people are not illegal migrants they are asylum seekers who have every right to apply to live in this country. Whether they are accepted is another matter. The longer each application takes the more expensive it becomes. Why can the idiots in power see this ?

The Tories for whatever reason have not recruited enough staff to process the applications thus allowing the backlog to build up,

Now look at it this way.......... Employ enough Immigration officers to keep up with the applicants, at say ?50K per annum.
Surely this would be cheaper than all the Hotel and other expenses we are now lumbered with.

This problem will get worse, just look at what is happening in Africa, they will keep coming, and it is up to the UK to process the applications fast enough.

[Hugo]

You have raised a number of good and valid points Mull but those boat people have entered the UK illegally.    They only become asylum seekers once they have applied for asylum after they have landed in the UK
Whatever views we hold about these "asylum seekers"  this link below shows the UK's position on them whether we like it or not


https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/the-illegal-migration-bill/

[Ian]

I found this paragraph interesting:

"The UK positions itself internationally as a leading defender of the rule of law, democracy and human rights on the international stage. The Foreign Affairs Committee has urged the government to challenge states that seek to ?subvert the international system and weaken rights?."

[Ian]

That is correct but the law was passed in 1951 and that was over 70 years ago and the world has changed since then.   Perhaps the law needs changing too

What about the 1967 protocol?

I could go through the list. point by point, but I'll settle for asking one question: why do we not simply sink the boats as they come within sight of the UK?

[norman08]

Two cruise ships that the government paid the owners millions to hold over 1 k asylum seekers,one going to Liverpool and the other to Edinburgh were sent back to the owners as this useless gov couldn?t dock them anywhere. ,,,,, they love wasting Our money.

[Helig]

It should be borne in mind that the 77th Brigade are posting and publishing a huge amount of disinformation about the immigration to the UK.

https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/2023/02/defence-secretary-admits-77th-brigade-tasked-to-uk-disinformation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/77th_Brigade_(United_Kingdom)

This body is responsible for making sure the government/establishment view is promoted.

I have found this site to provide some useful information.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Bibby is in use at Portland and full of people. I know that area and dread to think how the local services will cope. It is bad enough for the locals as the NHS is struggling around there. The nearest hospital is in Dorchester. Although there is a hospital in Weymouth is doesn't cover most of the health issues. I found the local people there very anti outsiders, they call us grockles.

[Ian]

I have found this site to provide some useful information.

Yes, but that's essentially a right-wing, anti-immigration site that supports Brexit, hardly a surprise when you look at the  founders.

But critiquing existing arrestments is fine, but what would you do instead? 

[Ian]

Seems the government isn't short of a bob or two:

"The UK government is to spend ?1.2 trillion in the current financial year overseen mainly by HM Treasury, the department also responsible for keeping the economy on track and overseeing financial markets. To do its job, the Treasury aims to create a "production model" of a new data platform by the end of the 2024-2025 financial year."

Full story here.

[Ian]

I forgot to mention: the principal endorser of that site  (migration watch uk.org/) is none other than convicted liar, cheat and fraudster Jonathon Aitkin.

[SteveH]

How many people are going to die, before this situation is rectified.?

North Wales man who suffered heart attack died after seven hour ambulance wait
'Helpless' family of David Philip Roberts from Llangollen frantically called 999 three times as coroner defers making prevention of future deaths report

A man who suffered a heart attack and later died waited seven and a half hours for an ambulance. The family of David Philip Roberts, known as Phil, from Llangollen, frantically called 999 three times but the final call hadn't been categorised as a "red" life-threatening emergency, an inquest into his death heard.

A coroner at Ruthin concluded that the 73-year-old former tool setter had died in June last year from natural causes. But the coroner deferred making a prevention of future deaths report because she was already awaiting responses about long ambulance delays following other recent inquests.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-man-who-suffered-27358629

[Helig]

A response to Ian's posts regarding the migration debate dated 19 and 20 July 2023.

Firstly, Jonathon Aitken is not the "principal endorser" of the Migration Watch site. His association is merely that he is a friend of Sir Andrew Green who was responsible for setting it up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/dec/01/thinktanks.race

I was asked what I would do, well for a start I would recruit and train enough staff to deal with the deluge of applications for asylum to the UK. They would be required to make a decision within 14 days of arrival of the person concerned. Then I would not provide any money, smartphone, travel pass, NHS treatment, Legal Aid, or other benefits to the immigrants. They would be accommodated in halls with a bed and shared showers, plus toilets. These would be in one designated area of the UK. The facilities would be basic and none would be housed in hotels. Sufficient food would be given to them to keep them alive. The decision reached on their claim could not be appealed and they would be returned to their country of origin immediately if their claim fails.

The Tories want to allow the invasion to continue as they have no intention of returning these people to their countries, or anywhere else. They are designed to be cheap labour for the UK businesses. Some of them will be nothing more than slave labour. It is ironic that they come to the UK thinking it is paved with gold but they will be fodder for the greedy Tory business owners.

Sunak's pledge to stop the boats is totally worthless. A total of 574 entered the UK by boats last Tuesday.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

These are just the ones they know about. Many say the number entering that are unknown to the authorities are far higher than these.