Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 144981 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #285 on: June 30, 2016, 09:11:13 am »
didn't you know that the EU rules state that migrants must now register for asylum in the country in which they arrive (say Greece), and not the EU country they want to get to? (say UK)
This is why Greece and other countries have been absorbing the Syrian migrants and Italy has absorbed the N African one's.
But from now on, they will indeed wave them through.
So you're saying that EU Countries just ignore EU rules when they feel like it? Doesn't sound like the greatest organisation to be a member of!

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #286 on: June 30, 2016, 09:17:00 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?


Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 13136
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #287 on: June 30, 2016, 11:14:00 am »
Here we go again, "Free Movement" keeps creeping into the news, and no one seems bothered.      &shake&

Brexit: Freedom of movement 'on the table' for forthcoming talks.

Freedom of movement will be "on the table" when the UK negotiates its withdrawal from the EU, French Finance Minister Michel Sapin says.
EU leaders have warned Britain that it would have to accept the free movement of EU citizens, if it still wanted to have access to the single market.
But Mr Sapin told the BBC's Newsnight that everything - including free movement - was up for discussion.
He added that the UK should now leave the EU "as quickly as possible".
But he said this was not to punish the UK, as he believed the country would "encounter real difficulties" and there was no need to "amplify" them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36669252

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #288 on: June 30, 2016, 11:35:44 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?

I suspect the EU accepts them on compassionate grounds.  The UK can refuse them, but might accept them on similar grounds. What would you do?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #289 on: June 30, 2016, 11:44:39 am »
didn't you know that the EU rules state that migrants must now register for asylum in the country in which they arrive (say Greece), and not the EU country they want to get to? (say UK)
This is why Greece and other countries have been absorbing the Syrian migrants and Italy has absorbed the N African one's.
But from now on, they will indeed wave them through.
So you're saying that EU Countries just ignore EU rules when they feel like it? Doesn't sound like the greatest organisation to be a member of!

No, what I'm saying is that while we are in the EU, the French have been 'persuaded' to hold back the hordes at Calais, but going forward,after Brexit, they have been quite open about saying that the arrangement is no longer a firm one.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 13136
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #290 on: June 30, 2016, 12:16:58 pm »
Boris out.......

“I have concluded that person cannot be me” says Boris Johnson ruling himself out of Conservative election race. ref BBC


And another petition just passed on to me.

https://www.change.org/p/last-and-only-option-left-to-keep-the-uk-in-eu-stop-article-50-from-being-invoked?recruiter=229670901&utm_source=share_petition&utm_

Offline born2run

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #291 on: June 30, 2016, 02:19:33 pm »
But are they now being given a legitimacy they didn't have before? And against the Polish? And, now the Leave leaders have backtracked on all the Lies promises they made, what wonderful things can we expect from our exit?  Apart, that is, from a divided Britain, soon to be a divided England and Wales...
What legitimacy? The vote was on whether the UK would remain a member of the European Union or not, nothing else. Trying to blame any racist incident that occurs now on the result of that vote is pure sophistry.  &shake&

I've just received an e mail from Unite's head office that begins

"I am sickened as a union officer to be receiving reports form our members in Wales of increased racism being directed at Unite members in our workplaces and communities."

Coincidence? Yeah cause it is  &shake&

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #292 on: June 30, 2016, 02:47:25 pm »
I keep hearing people say that no one intervenes when racist incidents flare up on trains etc.
Well, I'm waiting for the inevitable example of someone who does grab hold of one of these thugs and either get their head kicked in, or get prosecuted for aggravated assault.
The law is not on the side of the 'have a go hero'
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #293 on: June 30, 2016, 04:02:45 pm »
No, it isn't.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #294 on: July 01, 2016, 08:47:02 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?

I suspect the EU accepts them on compassionate grounds.  The UK can refuse them, but might accept them on similar grounds. What would you do?
If they're escaping a war torn country (and no-one can blame them for doing so), they should go to the nearest safe country. Why do they need to travel through 8 or more safe countries to come to the UK?

Furthermore, large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place. Do you believe they should be allowed to come and live in the UK?


Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #295 on: July 01, 2016, 08:50:36 am »
But are they now being given a legitimacy they didn't have before? And against the Polish? And, now the Leave leaders have backtracked on all the Lies promises they made, what wonderful things can we expect from our exit?  Apart, that is, from a divided Britain, soon to be a divided England and Wales...
What legitimacy? The vote was on whether the UK would remain a member of the European Union or not, nothing else. Trying to blame any racist incident that occurs now on the result of that vote is pure sophistry.  &shake&

I've just received an e mail from Unite's head office that begins

"I am sickened as a union officer to be receiving reports form our members in Wales of increased racism being directed at Unite members in our workplaces and communities."

Coincidence? Yeah cause it is  &shake&
Can we see real real facts please, rather than tittle tattle?

How about this..

"Ch Insp Daniel Howe, of South Wales Police, said: "Since the referendum result last week, there has been no noticeable increase in reports of hate crime to South Wales Police in Cardiff.""

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36640447

Offline born2run

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #296 on: July 01, 2016, 10:58:18 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?

I suspect the EU accepts them on compassionate grounds.  The UK can refuse them, but might accept them on similar grounds. What would you do?
If they're escaping a war torn country (and no-one can blame them for doing so), they should go to the nearest safe country. Why do they need to travel through 8 or more safe countries to come to the UK?

Furthermore, large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place. Do you believe they should be allowed to come and live in the UK?

How can the nearest safe country contain all of them? The nearest safe country is not a TARDIS!

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #297 on: July 01, 2016, 11:20:39 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?

I suspect the EU accepts them on compassionate grounds.  The UK can refuse them, but might accept them on similar grounds. What would you do?
If they're escaping a war torn country (and no-one can blame them for doing so), they should go to the nearest safe country. Why do they need to travel through 8 or more safe countries to come to the UK?

Furthermore, large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place. Do you believe they should be allowed to come and live in the UK?

On your first point they have to make land in one country, obviously, and that's where they have to register.  After that they might well choose to move to a country where they have relatives or - because your forebears attempted to eliminate them in genocidal attacks and, many years later, attempted to exploit them once they discovered the value of oil and essentially occupied them for many years - they speak English and wanted to choose a country where English is spoken.  Those from ex-colonies tend to head back to the occupying country.  That's why France has so many.

More interestingly, do you really believe the country in which they first arrive should be the only one that accepts responsibility for them?

On the second point you say "large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place." but are they claiming asylum? I also dispute your claim they're a 'Large number', certainly from the Far East. And being in or out of the EU will make absolutely no difference to those seeking to get into the UK.

And describing Africa and the Far East as places "where there is no conflict taking place" is incorrect. Islamic insurgencies and terrorism have always been an issue in the Far East while Africa was where ISIS was almost certainly formed and is gradually becoming a battleground between ISIS and moderates in Islam.

And your argument regarding immigration fails to even mention that the country from which the most migrants arrive is India. Nothing to do with the EU, then.

Finally, I will answer your question, despite the fact that you've dodged mine. I do believe the UK has a global responsibility to help those less fortunate than ourselves. If we're such a wealthy country, as the Leave camp kept telling us throughout their campaign, then obviously we could easily cope with a several million.  Unless of course, the Leave campaign was telling porkies...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #298 on: July 01, 2016, 11:50:35 am »
On your first point they have to make land in one country, obviously, and that's where they have to register.  After that they might well choose to move to a country where they have relatives or - because your forebears attempted to eliminate them in genocidal attacks and, many years later, attempted to exploit them once they discovered the value of oil and essentially occupied them for many years - they speak English and wanted to choose a country where English is spoken.  Those from ex-colonies tend to head back to the occupying country.  That's why France has so many.
So all these people from Syria and Afghanistan attempting to enter the UK speak English...really?  :laugh:
Quote
More interestingly, do you really believe the country in which they first arrive should be the only one that accepts responsibility for them?
But isn't that the EU policy now? Hasn't the EU done a deal with Turkey for them to contain all the migrants there? Hasn't Donald Tusk told migrants they are not welcome in Europe?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/03/donald-tusk-economic-migrants-do-not-come-to-europe
Quote
On the second point you say "large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place." but are they claiming asylum? I also dispute your claim they're a 'Large number', certainly from the Far East. And being in or out of the EU will make absolutely no difference to those seeking to get into the UK.

And describing Africa and the Far East as places "where there is no conflict taking place" is incorrect. Islamic insurgencies and terrorism have always been an issue in the Far East while Africa was where ISIS was almost certainly formed and is gradually becoming a battleground between ISIS and moderates in Islam.
Well, approx 175,000 migrants came to Europe from Afghanistan alone in 2015, so I suppose it depends upon what you'd call a large number. Seems pretty large to me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911

Quote
And your argument regarding immigration fails to even mention that the country from which the most migrants arrive is India. Nothing to do with the EU, then.
Not according to this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911

Quote
Finally, I will answer your question, despite the fact that you've dodged mine. I do believe the UK has a global responsibility to help those less fortunate than ourselves. If we're such a wealthy country, as the Leave camp kept telling us throughout their campaign, then obviously we could easily cope with a several million.  Unless of course, the Leave campaign was telling porkies...
No-one is saying that we shouldn't help people less fortunate than themselves. But surely it's better to help them in their own country or one nearby than expecting them to trek thousands of miles across unfamiliar countries to somewhere where they have no home, job, family?

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #299 on: July 01, 2016, 11:51:52 am »
perhaps our role should be one of exerting political and diplomatic pressure on the wealthy gulf states to take many of their fellow Arabs in, in addition to providing non-financial aid to those still in their own countries to allow them to remain.
I'm wondering why the Gulf States are able, by your own admission,  to successfully say no to migrants entering their countries, yet you're saying we can't do the same thing?

I suspect the EU accepts them on compassionate grounds.  The UK can refuse them, but might accept them on similar grounds. What would you do?
If they're escaping a war torn country (and no-one can blame them for doing so), they should go to the nearest safe country. Why do they need to travel through 8 or more safe countries to come to the UK?

Furthermore, large numbers of migrants are from countries in Africa and the Far East, where there is no conflict taking place. Do you believe they should be allowed to come and live in the UK?

How can the nearest safe country contain all of them? The nearest safe country is not a TARDIS!
But that's EU Policy now, B2R. They've done a deal with Turkey for them to contain all of Syria's migrants. You'd better phone Donald Tusk up and tell him he's made a terrible mistake!  :laugh: