Author Topic: Schools and education  (Read 30756 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12791
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2016, 04:08:17 pm »
Seems to have been a week for educational **** ups .....See previous page
This article is the icing...from todays Daily Post.     I have also included two comments from the link, so its not just me.  $angry$

Should North Wales teachers be allowed time off to watch the European Championships?
Teachers in Gwynedd should be allowed unpaid leave to travel to France and watch Wales in the European Championships, according to a councillor.

Bethel councillor Sion Jones, a school governor, wants teachers to be able to take up to a month off from work to enjoy the “once in a lifetime experience”.
Labour Cllr Jones, who failed in his bid to join the Welsh Assembly in the elections earlier this month, has promised to lobby the council to help football-mad teachers.

This summer’s European Championship in France is the first Wales have qualified for since 1958 with the tournament running from June 10 until July 10.

Cllr Jones said: “It is unacceptable that governors in some schools have declined applications for teachers to travel to France for the Euros.
“It’s a once in a lifetime opportunity, and teachers would take it without pay.
“Staff and governors are allowed to go - myself included.”
Cllr Jones said unpaid leave could tip the balance for teachers wanting to go to France.

The letter said: “It will not be possible for school staff to ask for time off from the workplace to watch the football games if the matches are during working hours.
“If a situation arises that a member of staff takes time off it will be regarded as time off without permission and will not eligible for payment. It will be regarded as a serious disciplinary matter which could lead to measures including the termination of employment.”

“It is a matter for each individual school governing body to decide whether they approve such requests for leave during school term"

Two comments.....
".what planet is this guy  on?Teachers already get 13 weeks holiday a year and are very well paid considering the virtually part time hours they work during term time [yes we know you do loads of extra hours,just as long as you don't have to use the copyer etc.] How can you make it a criminal offence to take children out of school during term time and then expect to take time off yourself? If you want to take time off work any time of the year don't become a teacher!!!!!!"

"Teaching is a hotbed of footballism is it?  How many of our teachers really feel the need to take this "once in a lifetime experience"? 
This shows just how seriously *some* of today's teachers take the job. 
Great that our educators are setting our children such a shining example as they head off from school into the world of work.

Nah, *od it, give the whole public sector the month off - after all, teachers are no more special than any of the public workers - and pray you don't get ill, your bin doesn't get full, or your BBQ gets out of hand.

Get a grip, teachers (well, the tiny number to whom this proposal applies).  It's just a football tournament, which will be all over the TV, all over radio, repeated to death even when it's finished.  If you want the freedom to come 'n' go from work as you please then leave teaching and become self-employed - let's see how you get on in the 'real world'."
11390555]http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/should-north-wales-teachers-allowed-11390555

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2016, 04:54:52 pm »
Insane. This bloke hasn't given his idiotic proposal a moment's real thought. Why draw the line at the Euros? What about the world curling championships, the draughts finals, Chess championships or Wimbledon? But then he's failed at everything else - this is probably just to get himself noticed. After all he's only just 20 and misses almost half the meetings he's supposed to attend.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12791
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2016, 11:37:38 am »
Employers warn of widening skills shortage.                     >?>??

"There are also problems with basic skills, with the survey showing almost a third of businesses had concerns about the literacy and numeracy levels of their new recruits."
"But employers were more likely to rate "attitude to work" as more important than formal qualifications."   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36783460


Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12791
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2016, 01:00:18 pm »
Wales’ schools ranked WORST IN UK in world-wide test results out today......
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-schools-ranked-worst-uk-12279516

Offline born2run

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2016, 01:45:50 pm »
Wales’ schools ranked WORST IN UK in world-wide test results out today......
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-schools-ranked-worst-uk-12279516

"Alarmingly 21% of students tested in Wales cannot read well enough to “participate effectively and productively in life” according to the report, compared to 18% in England and Scotland and 15% in Northern Ireland."

This doesn't surprise me at all. If any of you have got any youngsters even 20 somethings as friends on Facebook and the like you'll see how they generally write posts. Normally looks something along these lines...

"U no wat all of use nd to stop riting crap ppl need to mind there own business."

Ban mobile phones that will be a start.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2016, 03:04:22 pm »
Too simplistic. In the past I've challenged the veracity of the PISA testing regime but I do accept that there's a problem.  Most of that problem doesn't, in fact, lie with schools: it's actually mostly parental. However, there are a number of issues schools need to address.

For a start ensuring Science teachers are literate would be a start. It's surprising how many Science teachers can't put together a simple English sentence. Secondly, the numbers of teachers who know little or nothing outside their own subject speciality is horrifying. Education is, or should be, a holistic process, but in the average secondary schools it's all too often anything but. How many staff, for instance, would know anything about E=Mc2?  The answer is depressingly few, yet every secondary teacher should - at the very least - know what it means.

Primary schools teachers, however, can be the main problems. They are teaching across the board - except for Music, of course - yet few have any real idea of basic science. And Primary schools spend far too much time doing anything but academic work.

One solution could be to change Education completely, by drastically altering the work / play ratio in all schools, extending the school day and awarding salaries by results. Teachers get paid simply for standing in front of a class. There's little to no check on the quality of what they deliver. That needs to change but parental attitudes also need to change - drastically.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12791
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2016, 03:38:18 pm »
I believe that primary schools need to concentrate on the 3Rs , if a child enters the secondary education system with poor abilities in the basics, their confidence will suffer and they will be left behind, with the obvious consequense,.......
the number of school leavers who cannot fill out an application form is disgraceful.

Offline PhilMick

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2016, 05:19:01 pm »

Teachers get paid simply for standing in front of a class. There's little to no check on the quality of what they deliver.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

mmm - I guess you have no experience of teaching whatsoever.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2016, 09:25:26 am »
I'm not sure why you should find the comment amusing, and you haven't stated what it is, but I'll break it down for you.

Quote
"Teachers get paid simply for standing in front of a class".

Statistically, throughout England and Wales, more than one fifth of lessons aren't delivered by someone qualified in the subject. That means, in reality, that the teacher who does deliver the lesson material is often either simply 'minding' the class or 'muddling through'. Either way, they're being paid simply for standing in front of the class.

Now, that statistic doesn't take into account the 55% absence rate among staff that's been rising slightly, year-on-year, and in most schools they employ substitute staff to cope with these absences. The social and interpersonal dynamics in teaching mean it's all but impossible for a substitute teacher to do anything with the class in terms of actual teaching, so they end up 'minding' the class.  In other words, they're paid for simply standing in front of a class.

This becomes more of an issue when you take into account in-service training. Almost all staff are given time off for in-service training - and much of it is compulsory, such as GCSE standardisation meetings, and so on. In that event, all their classes are covered by substitute staff, who are paid for simply standing in front of a class.

I could go on, mentioning in-school meetings, classroom issues, and so on, but I hope you get the point.

The second part of what I said was
Quote
"There's little to no check on the quality of what they deliver. "

Here's where it becomes more worrying. The percentage of FTE (Full Time Equivalent) teachers with QTS (Qualified Teacher Status) has been steadily falling for some years. From the Government's own statistics "Secondary schools employ the majority of the 20,300 FTE teachers without QTS; 11.5 thousand (57 per cent). Primary schools employ 5.9 thousand teachers without QTS (29 per cent) and the remainder work in special schools or are employed directly by local authorities."

Now, the situation is that when those who are attempting to elevate the quality of teaching visit or assess these people they can't effectively do anything, since they're employed in the full awareness that they're not holding QTS.  So in  that instance "There's little to no check on the quality of what they deliver".

If we then examine the average, fully subject-qualified teacher standing in front of their class one might imagine that they deliver a lesson that excites, enthuses, stimulates and educates every time they do. Sadly, the reality is anything but. Part of that has to do with the ways in which schools are organised;  Secondary schools, for instance, often work under a structure which actively denies children and staff the opportunities to receive and deliver high quality education. There are many reasons for this, but the outcome is the same: a poorer quality education than the children deserve.

In England children in Secondary schools pupils on average spend between six and six and a half hours per day in school. But let's look at that. If we take the timetable of a school rated as 'Good'. then we see it has 6 x 50 minutes periods (lessons) per day. Which sounds reasonably encouraging, because we can assume the kids are getting at least 5 hours education per day.  You might notice that's down significantly from the 6.5 hours they spend actually in school.

So then we look at the actual lessons. In a typical day at least one lesson will be delivered by a sub. Yes - work might be set by the teacher who's missing, while the sub is paid for simply standing in front of the class, but it's not the same as being taught.

So now we're down to 4 hours 10 mins.  But in Secondary schools children move from room to room and, in the larger schools, that takes time.  Allowing for a minimum transition time between each of the 6 scheduled lessons, it can eat up around 40 minutes per day, simply moving along corridors, lining up outside classrooms, waiting for lessons starts and so on.

So now we're down to 3 hours 30 mins in actual lessons being taught.

Bu that's not the end of it.  Far from it, as the teacher in each classroom has to ensure an orderly start to the lesson, deal with the minutiae of taking a register, missing books, absences, sorting out homework and stopping the children who enjoy challenging staff from disrupting the class for everyone else. All that easily adds another 30 - 45 mins per day onto the non-teaching bit.

So now we're down to under 3 hours of actual taught lessons and I haven't even started on fire drills, games lessons, PE lessons, potential disruption and so on.

Once we finally get into the classroom where we can actually learn something the teacher has to arrange the lesson to allow for the 30 or so individuals of varying ability they have to teach. So how is the quality monitored?

Well, there's actually no universal agreement as to what makes a high quality lesson. There are a lot of terms thrown around. of course, buyt they're often fairly meaningless when examined in the real-world context. Since there's no agreement, OFSTED and others have drawn up 'recommendations', but all too often those are simply book-keeping measures which don't even start to deal with quality of teaching.

I could go on but I hope what I said is now clearer.  The sad thing is that excellent teachers do exist, but all too often they're driven out of the job by the increasing pressures to maintain the books.






Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2016, 03:32:39 pm »
Its a sad fact that, in some local primary schools, the teacher will divide the class up into 2 groups based upon ability. The less capable (generally special needs) group of children will be sent to another room to be supervised by a teaching assisstant, leaving the teacher to teach the more able children. Thus, the children that require the most help arent receiving it.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2016, 03:40:30 pm »
That type of approach continues in secondary schools, although it often works in reverse, curiously. Most secondary schools fail the very brightest students, and fail them in a big way.  It's one reason why home schooling has been on the increase for years and often produces some very bright children. Bright children want to learn but the modern UK educational system actively seems to militate against the very sharpest minds. It is - as you say - very sad.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2016, 08:53:48 am »
Further to what I posted above, there's an altogether more chilling yet blatantly obvious reason why the UK schools fail the brightest kids.

We've established in my initial reply to PhilMick that kids in secondary schools are lucky to get 3 hours of actual teaching per day. That's bad enough in itself, but UK school terms add up to a mere 200 days per annum.

Thus: 200 x 3 = 600 (the number of hours per year a child will actually be taught in a classroom).
600 / 24 = 25 (the total number of complete 24-hour days a child will spend being taught in a classroom.


Well, it's a tad unreasonable to expect the children to spend 24 hours per day being taught, so let's assume they spend 8 hours per day actually being taught. That comes to 75 days per year, or just over 10.5 weeks.

Now, children rarely - if ever - spend every term-time day in school and, on average, are absent for around 10 days per school year.

The upshot of this is we expect the UK's children to be effectively educated in around nine weeks each year.  The nations who are coming consistently at the top for Mathematics, languages, Science and Technology have far longer school days. On average, for instance, a year 11 student (GCSE years here) spends some 11 hours per weekday being taught in a classroom. Now, I believe that's far too much, but it's the reason why we will never climb the educational ratings internationally.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 12791
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2016, 09:41:16 am »
I have just re read the original article and found the comments section interesting, .....what do you think ?

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-schools-ranked-worst-uk-12279516

Talking about comments...... the education story got 6 and the cat story from BYCoed  57

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8943
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2016, 09:52:16 am »
I can't display the comments.  Could you copy and paste them, Steve?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SDQ

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 990
Re: Schools and education
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2016, 09:59:13 am »
I can't display the comments.  Could you copy and paste them, Steve?


18 hours ago
MarkoMarko
Welsh education is a self for filling
Advertise for welsh speaking teachers- pool very small scope and wider talent  - limited - by definition those teachers Welsh being the trump card for employment  and career devlopement  -  those welsh teacher may be understandingly be biased towards keeping  brightest boys and gils from straying in to " english courses and development - of fear of "loosing them "    This is a real crux that often talent leaves from the welsh education experiences to the wider world -= however some what hobbled in the completion of higher education of uk leading universities - Sadly Aber ,  Wrexham are not in the front or middling league.   

I expect that other excuses to why education  is under performing - Like it for not we are in global race - if we cannot pay our way in the world we our welfare will suffer-

The welsh education sec need to look very carefully if she is up to the job !

Reply
Share
20

1 day ago
JohnLightfoot
As long as the people in charge are going to put the Welsh language first before everything else the figures will continue to slide. Their quest to force the Welsh language on the children is arrogant, disgusting and wrong.
Reply
Share
50

1 day ago
Movvi1
I'm not sure where the blame lies here.  Do we have the 'worst schools', or simply the worst set of unfortunate circumstances?  I was talking about this earlier when someone mentioned Wales having particularly high numbers of unwanted pregnancies, incidences of drinking alcohol while pregnant, truancy and mental health issues...  I haven't verified the statistics, but if that were the case, then it follows that our children might not be the highest achieving.  There is also a horrible apathy about - when I asked quite candidly, many youngsters said they had, at times, during exams and tests, simply given up or not bothered making an effort.  As a result, test results would surely be influenced by this.  Children are no longer allowed to fail, either; there are exemplar pieces of tasks shown before they write their own, writing frames to provide a scaffold, specific vocabulary provided for a given task, group work for sharing ideas and self- and peer- assessment to check work before submission.  Teachers must then mark positively, even if, after all this preparation, work is not correct or riddled with careless errors.  Sometimes, I think we need to tell it like it is.
Reply
Share
03

2 days ago
GWL
Tests and qualifications should be about the students doing their best and achieving their potential and preparing them for the next stage in their life. Unfortunately the assessment regime has become all about politicians showing they are making a difference and has resulted in schools becoming qualification factories where quantity rather than quality prevails and real education and learning becomes irrelevant.
Reply
Share
11

2 days ago
hensrule
A start might be to actually listen to the teachers who are having to attempt to deliver the constantly changing curriculums, right across the various age ranges, which are being introduced by politicians. These are overly complex, and conveyed in a bizarre 'edu-speak', which leaves teachers' brains numb, let alone those of the poor parents and potential employers of the students. Add to that, the Welsh Government's ideological stance on forcing the Welsh Language into every area, and we've got an educational system doomed to failure. Where are all these highly skilled and qualified fluent Welsh teachers going to come from? I'd like to see the figures showing the financial cost for supply teachers across schools in Wales, and how many of those are fluent in Welsh. Get teachers on the ground fully involved in creating a new educational framework and Wales' children (and it's their futures we should be focused upon) will really have a chance to shine.
Reply
Share
40

2 days ago
allie5
Declining results for more than a decade.  About the same time as the push for all teaching to be in Welsh only. 

    Councils advertise teaching jobs as 'Welsh essential'  which drastically reduces the number who can apply for teaching posts and therefore the quality of teaching.   

    It is time for the Welsh government to look at this failed ideology and face the fact that the Welsh education system is failing all children by making a minority language the only education choice.  Yes, Welsh should be taught, but as a subject on the curriculum with lunchtime and afternoon school clubs to reinforce its use.

Every parent should be appalled at these results.  The fact that 21% of Welsh children are not able to read well is astounding.

Reply
Share
82

2 days ago
GwynOwen
Is the problem "mixed ability classes" ? The politically correct and do gooders like mixed ability classes, but it only ends up with the less able students dragging down the very able ones. Bring back ability streaming
1 reply
Reply
Share
61

2 days ago
allie5
Top country  is Singapore which has mixed ability teaching so that might not be the reason for the awful Welsh results.
Reply
Share
33

2 days ago
dynofon
First thing is to sack the woman in the Senedd responsible for education in Wales she is out of her depth.
Reply
Share
61
Valar Morghulis