Schools and education

[born2run]

I have just re read the original article and found the comments section interesting, .....what do you think ?

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-schools-ranked-worst-uk-12279516

Talking about comments...... the education story got 6 and the cat story from BYCoed  57

That is because the in general people take great offence to cruelty to any animal that might be cute/physically appealing to them. Half of them comments were probably typed on their phones whilst they were stuffing big macs into their gobs.

[Ian]

Thanks, SDQ.

Some perceptive comments there, in fact, the first being particularly so. Adding another item into the mix, Wales has a longer school day than England because of the requirement to deliver Welsh.

[born2run]

Do you know locally. Bryn Elian and Erias have to have separate school opening hours. One at about 8.15 and the other about 9 and then 3 and 3.45. To stop the rival schools fighting with each other after school! I thought it was just football hooligans where they did the tactic of one group leaving before the others to stop trouble. Is it any wonder standards are failing? This is the North Wales coast not an inner city!

[Fester]

Its a sad fact that, in some local primary schools, the teacher will divide the class up into 2 groups based upon ability. The less capable (generally special needs) group of children will be sent to another room to be supervised by a teaching assisstant, leaving the teacher to teach the more able children. Thus, the children that require the most help arent receiving it.

But, the pupils with most potential are not now being held back, works both ways.

[Ian]

Do you know locally. Bryn Elian and Erias have to have separate school opening hours. One at about 8.15 and the other about 9 and then 3 and 3.45. To stop the rival schools fighting with each other after school! I thought it was just football hooligans where they did the tactic of one group leaving before the others to stop trouble. Is it any wonder standards are failing? This is the North Wales coast not an inner city!

They both set their times independently once they were freed up to do so.  There was a strong push for earlier from the staff of one of the schools. It has nothing to do with inter-school rivalries.

[Ian]

Its a sad fact that, in some local primary schools, the teacher will divide the class up into 2 groups based upon ability. The less capable (generally special needs) group of children will be sent to another room to be supervised by a teaching assistant, leaving the teacher to teach the more able children. Thus, the children that require the most help arent receiving it.

But, the pupils with most potential are not now being held back, works both ways.

Not necessarily. You might think so, at first glance, but the relatively able children aren't always being stretched, but instead face fairly average lessons. To make a system like that work extraction has to target both ends of the potential scale. And it doesn't.

[born2run]

Do you know locally. Bryn Elian and Erias have to have separate school opening hours. One at about 8.15 and the other about 9 and then 3 and 3.45. To stop the rival schools fighting with each other after school! I thought it was just football hooligans where they did the tactic of one group leaving before the others to stop trouble. Is it any wonder standards are failing? This is the North Wales coast not an inner city!

They both set their times independently once they were freed up to do so.  There was a strong push for earlier from the staff of one of the schools. It has nothing to do with inter-school rivalries.

There may be some truth in that but it's certainly not what the pupils, teachers and parents are lead to believe. My son attends one of the schools, I assume you found your source somewhere on the internet? Do you have a link? 

[Ian]

I know it from personal experience and dealings with governors of both places.

[SteveH]

After mentioning this topic to my OH , she told me she had just downloaded a BBC  Wales documentory .... School swap Korea style........sponsored by the Telegraph education editor, who is Welsh, trying to find out why South Korea are top and Wales 43rd in the list.

The gist being 15 years ago S.K. were at the bottom, now the top, ......

School starts at 7.30 till 4pm, then after school classes, then private tution,the library were they queue to get in, then back to school at 11pm.......the goverment has tried to put a curfew of 10pm.

S.K. spend the most world wide on further education.

An example.....they took a one hour version of the UKs 11plus maths exam, the whole class finished in 15minutes, its what they learned at junior school.

These students want to learn, and are being pushed by their parents, now the problem appears to be on finding a happy medium.

[Fester]

I watched that Steve, and the culture shock for the beleaguered Welsh kids was something to behold.
They made good friends, and kind of enjoyed the (mercifully short) experience, but as you said it's about finding an acceptable middle ground.

[Ian]

Throwing an extra element into the mix what do forum members think about the possible re-introduction of the Grammar school to North Wales?

[born2run]

Awful, draconian measure that will not only further separate the gap between the have and have nots.
It is inherently unfair to 'test' a child at that age for a number of reasons, not to mention the pressure on the children, taking an exam that will affect the outcome for the rest of their lives but another one is at that age certain disabilities may not have been fully or in some cases even partially diagnosed. We won a case recently in which a member of staff had been selected for redundancy based on a written examination and interview criteria.Under the DD act 1995 we won the case because reasonable adjustments had not been made to allow for this individuals disadvantages due to their disability. Now if it's not fair for a 40 something adult in a top tax bracket job how can it be fair for an 11 year old child from a poor background?

[DaveR]

I went to Bryn Elian and there was certainly a strong rivalry with Eirias or 'hairy A***' as we pronounced it. I remember the time a fight was organised on the field by Eirias and some Bryn Elian pupils turned up in an old van, the van skidded to a halt and  the back doors opened to reveal the legendary Mowers wielding a chainsaw. .  Happy days...

[SteveH]

I have no experience with the Grammer school system, but reading up on the subject, I thought these articles would be of interest.

I came into teaching to raise standards’ – Michael Wilshaw's forthright farewell
The departing Ofsted chief talks about why grammar schools are divisive, the danger of blanket solutions and the difficulties of working with politicians.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/15/sir-michael-wilshaw-politicians-inevitably-come-up-against-people-like-me-chief-inspector-schools

A quote from him which I strongly agree with.......
he says ministers should focus instead on promoting specialist, technical subjects in schools, and new technology colleges for 14-19-year-olds, so future generations have the skills necessary to drive the post-Brexit economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/15/ofsted-chief-slams-grammar-school-obession

[Ian]

I went through the Grammar system, and I do remember it as being very pressured. The arguments in favour of the 'modern' grammar concept appear to lie along the lines of streaming and setting.  And where the Grammar seemed to excel was in giving those from working class backgrounds the opportunity for social mobility.