Author Topic: National politics  (Read 319793 times)

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Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2014, 12:16:35 pm »
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You appear to have a very cliched and old-fashioned view of who Britain's millionaires are? In reality, I suspect a lot of them are just fairly ordinary people who have worked hard all their life to build up a business, for example.

Well, I was joking, and if you take into account property valuations then I suspect there are many more than the figure quoted. On that basis there are quite a few in Llandudno. But they may have worked hard to build up a business; that's not the issue.  My point was simply that it's relatively easy to target the benefits system and bemoan the loss of a few millions, when the government is actively aiding the lifestyles of those who could easily afford to pay more in tax to redress the balance.

It's all a question of fairness and what sort of a society we want. When Hugo says "My concern about benefits  doesn't take into account the tax avoidance schemes which HMRC themselves estimate cost the UK over £20billion. because that is a separate matter." I disagree, because the tax avoider or - even worse - the tax evader is denying the exchequer the money it needs to create a just and fair society.

I suspect we're seeing a society which is becoming divided by wealth in a way that we haven't seen for years. For the first time in a very long time more young folk are moving into rented accommodation than buying houses, and I suspect that marks the start of a distinctly two-tier culture. Landlords (the name itself a feudal epithet) have never had it so good, but there's a danger here: folk who live in rented accommodation may not feel truly invested in their local society. When that happens dissociation can follow and society - in the worst cases - can begin to fragment.

If that were to happen in a big way (extremely unlikely in the area, I know) then worrying about the benefit system will be the least of our concerns.

Excellent point, just look at the London riots

Offline Hugo

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Re: National politics
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2014, 01:26:41 pm »

It's all a question of fairness and what sort of a society we want. When Hugo says "My concern about benefits  doesn't take into account the tax avoidance schemes which HMRC themselves estimate cost the UK over £20billion. because that is a separate matter." I disagree, because the tax avoider or - even worse - the tax evader is denying the exchequer the money it needs to create a just and fair society.

I suspect we're seeing a society which is becoming divided by wealth in a way that we haven't seen for years. For the first time in a very long time more young folk are moving into rented accommodation than buying houses, and I suspect that marks the start of a distinctly two-tier culture. Landlords (the name itself a feudal epithet) have never had it so good, but there's a danger here: folk who live in rented accommodation may not feel truly invested in their local society. When that happens dissociation can follow and society - in the worst cases - can begin to fragment.

If that were to happen in a big way (extremely unlikely in the area, I know) then worrying about the benefit system will be the least of our concerns.

Excellent point, just look at the London riots

I agree with Ian's and BTR's comments but don't just blame the rich and famous for tax avoidance because if anyone pays cash for work done for you without invoices etc then that person is equally as guilty of tax avoidance as a rich person even if it is on a much smaller scale.
Tax evasion is different and illegal and if the Government put resources into HMRC then the UK should reap the reward for it.
The Government create the laws so surely they have qualified people who can prevent any loopholes in the system so that companies like Goggle etc pay their fair share of taxes.
Will this government do anything to block these loopholes?  Probably not because they are Conservatives and have vested interests in large companies.  The laws do need serious reforming and very quickly too.
Another thing that really annoys me too is the lack of affordable housing for young local people.  When I was getting married 44 years ago building firms were building housing estates all over the North Wales area.  They were 1 or two or 3 bedroomed properties that young working couples could just about afford, but that situation no longer exists for young working couples.
All the new builds are massive overpriced properties and the fact that CCBC supposedly had a rule that 30 per cent of new build houses should be affordable is being exploited by building companies and there was an example in the NWWN last week of such exploitation.
 

« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 01:43:50 pm by DaveR »


Offline DaveR

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Re: National politics
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2014, 01:57:05 pm »
The housing market has certainly lost all touch with economic reality in the last few years, making it very difficult for young families to buy a home. Of course, the upward pressure on house prices is primarily due to the UK's rapidly increasing population needing somewhere to live. Or did we think that  all of the people who've moved to the UK in the last decade would not need anywhere to live?  :laugh:

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2014, 02:36:07 pm »
The housing market has certainly lost all touch with economic reality in the last few years, making it very difficult for young families to buy a home. Of course, the upward pressure on house prices is primarily due to the UK's rapidly increasing population needing somewhere to live. Or did we think that  all of the people who've moved to the UK in the last decade would not need anywhere to live?  :laugh:

Not only because of immigration it's increading though, more people are being born than are dying, not much you can do about that unless you want to do it the Chinese way!

Offline Big Alan

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Re: National politics
« Reply #139 on: May 29, 2014, 10:32:05 pm »
FUKIP
Justice for the 96

Offline Fester

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Re: National politics
« Reply #140 on: May 29, 2014, 10:58:23 pm »
To be honest, the structure  of that survey would need examining.  As Hugo says with stats, you can get any answers you want from a survey, depending on how you ask the questions.


Correct Ian, so to prove the point I have done some statistics and forecasts of my own, to evaluate the problem of archaic train toilets.
Here goes;

Using the average number of daily train users, multiplied by the number of toilet visits required.... and then multiplying that by 365 days a year.   You then take the mean average of rail commuters over the last 150 years, and divide the resulting grand total into the total track mileage in the UK.
You then strip out the mileage of track closed by Dr Beeching in 1963, and finally apply a 'poo absorption' factor, which I made up for a laugh.   Then you set that against a rising population gradient.
The resulting conclusion is quite worrying.
It clearly shows that by the year 2031, the entire UK train network will be 8 feet deep in human excrement.

Someone prove me wrong?
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline snowcap

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Re: National politics
« Reply #141 on: May 29, 2014, 11:34:25 pm »
was that including toilet paper?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 07:44:35 am by Ian »

Offline Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2014, 06:47:40 am »
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It clearly shows that by the year 2031, the entire UK train network will be 8 feet deep in human excrement.
Someone prove me wrong?

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Offline Ian

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Re: National politics
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2014, 07:44:11 am »
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Of course, the upward pressure on house prices is primarily due to the UK's rapidly increasing population needing somewhere to live. Or did we think that  all of the people who've moved to the UK in the last decade would not need anywhere to live?

Some would disagree

And I'm not entirely sure that the "UK's rapidly increasing population" is the main causal factor behind price rises. A decent semi could be bought in the mid-'70s for about £7000, whereas the same house would probably cost around £240000 now. Between 1976 and 1979 house prices doubled, and that couldn't be ascribed to immigration at all, since the UK population actually fell during that period.

So it's extremely unlikely (if not simply wrong) that immigration forcing a demand for housing is responsible for the price rises.  This is essentially making the assumption - as did the Barker report - that more people can afford to buy and want houses than the building industry is providing. But the application of the basic rules of the free market economy to housing, where the central plank of price reduction becomes the increase of supply, overlooks the basic element behind that model: greed.

The main element identified in the Barker report causing a lack of affordable housing was land availability. But when land became available for building many large building companies bought it up then failed to develop it. Vast swathes of land stand empty and have done for years across the South of England as builders hold back from development to maximise their profits.

There're a few other issues, too: if the house price boom was caused by the UK's rapidly increasing population, then it's a reasonable question to ask why there are 635,000 homes standing empty in England alone. Part of the reason is the absurd rules regarding VAT. If property owners leave their houses empty for ten years, the cost of reinstating them and any associated building work is zero rated.  Even after a mere two years, the VAT costs plummet to just 5%.

Thus, there's no shortage of housing or land in the UK. There's a shortage of new-build, affordable housing, certainly, but that's not the same thing. Not only are building companies sitting on tracts of undeveloped land but when they do get permission to build, they will almost always attempt to impose 'variations' at crucial stages. Exactly that ploy has been tried recently in the local area, as a builder, with permission to develop land within a specified criteria started on the contract, then tried to vary its terms to build larger and more expensive houses. Why? Because they get more profit from larger builds.

There's part of me that wonders about the whole concept of land ownership. We like living in places we own, because we feel secure. But ought land or water be able to be owned as commodities? I often think about the four things we need as a species: Water, land, air and sun. They're not optional. So why should a few be able to own huge amounts of those resources and most have to pay through the nose for them? I'm not suggesting Communism, which in all its incarnations has failed to work. But perhaps we - as a society - need to address the question, because history suggests that it's not simply going to disappear.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: National politics
« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2014, 11:18:29 am »

Offline Yorkie

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Re: National politics
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2014, 06:00:13 pm »
I think one will find that house prices are being fuelled from the amount of foreign money buying up London property in particular.   Do a check on such as Islington which was the working man's home territory and now a millionaires paradise!   :D
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Fools have to say something.
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Offline SteveH

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Re: National politics
« Reply #146 on: November 05, 2014, 11:26:31 am »
New EU members add £5bn to UK says research

Immigrants from the 10 countries which joined the EU in 2004 contributed more to the UK than they took out in benefits, according to a new study.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #147 on: November 05, 2014, 12:24:14 pm »
 $good$

Offline born2run

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Re: National politics
« Reply #148 on: November 05, 2014, 12:40:42 pm »
meanwhile the DFM goes with


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2821151/Non-EU-migrants-State-costing-British-finances-120billion-1995.html#ixzz3ICHxe7I5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook]By contrast EU migrants since 2000 made a net contribution of £20billion

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2821151/Non-EU-migrants-State-costing-British-finances-120billion-1995.html#ixzz3ICHxe7I5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/url]

Offline SteveH

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Re: National politics
« Reply #149 on: November 05, 2014, 01:32:54 pm »
"By contrast, migrants from outside Europe – most of whom arrived from Commonwealth countries – cost the public finances almost £118billion and were a drain in each of the 17 years covered by the report."

This stood out for me.