Poll

What should be done with Colwyn Bay Pier?

Demolish it
Carry out basic renovation (spend up to £5m)
Carry out comprehensive renovation, including all buildings (spend up to £10m)

Author Topic: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier  (Read 386421 times)

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Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #510 on: January 10, 2014, 01:04:43 pm »
Viv, the announcement that I posted above doesn't contradict what you say. It says "Town Council meeting" and "you have to be quiet". (The original error by Cllr Chris Hughes had already been corrected).

I guess the question is: What exactly is going to be discussed concerning the pier? And is it something that you believe isn't of public interest?

Offline viv

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #511 on: January 10, 2014, 04:35:57 pm »
ok BMD - I was referring to the Pioneer article and subsequent poster that invited people to a public meeting to have their say, so thanks for clarifying. Chris Hughes asked for the Pier to be put on the agenda, and the item consists only of the paperwork about the County Council's decision and the options offered to them to make that decision. The actually item says to note and to discuss, so your guess is as good as mine as to what Councillors will raise in that context. To be perfectly honest I can't really see the point of the Town Council or the County Councils making any further comments until the ownership is sorted once and for all. The estimate of renovation work did appear to me to be well over the top - £15M when piers in other places have been saved with a lot less, but that's just me - I'm not a structural engineer or an architect so it's just an opinion.


Offline Nemesis

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Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #513 on: January 13, 2014, 05:28:48 pm »
The estimate of renovation work did appear to me to be well over the top - £15M when piers in other places have been saved with a lot less, but that's just me - I'm not a structural engineer or an architect so it's just an opinion.
I agree. For a year or two, the figure mentioned was roughly £5m, the next it had TREBLED to £15m. In my mind, it was a clear attempt to frighten County Councillors into voting for demolition.

Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #514 on: January 14, 2014, 06:22:43 pm »
The inflated "£15m" figure certainly got the headlines. Renovation of the pier's structure (to a boardwalk) would have cost only £2.7m more than demolition - but that didn't make headlines.

The new costing report's options were as follows:

♦ Demolition: £1m
♦ Basic “boardwalk” pier refurbishment: £3.7m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new kiosks: £4.1m
♦ Pier + main pavilion refurbishment:  £8.9m
♦ Pier refurbishment + new build (as per HLF bid): £11.5m

The £15m figure came from adding an extra £4m (approx) to the £11.5m, for "contingency and possible inflation", etc - even though the £11.5m figure already contains amounts for "design contingency" and "construction contingency", and - incidentally - is already padded up with total "professional fees" of approx £1.5m.

The amount estimated for demolition, on the other hand, excludes significant costs, such as for: “Complex and lengthy procedure to be followed to gain delisting from CADW with likely challenge from community/stakeholders” and “Need to establish a business case/funding for alternative focal point at this point on the waterfront”.

But what's new? The tiny minority of councillors who have been against pier renovation for years - for reasons which remain a mystery to me - (and who received disproportionate media coverage for years prior to the lottery funding award) once again managed to get the narrative set in their terms - just at the right time.

All the costs (new report and seemingly arbitrary council add-ons) are given here:
http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #515 on: January 14, 2014, 06:46:20 pm »
I still believe that they do not want the pier to create competition for the Skip! Why they had to build the skip and not just restore the pier puzzles me!  &shake&
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Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #516 on: January 15, 2014, 08:57:24 am »
Threat to Colwyn Bay pier: Councillors' anger at not being consulted at demolition decision

Dozens of people concerned about the demolition of Colwyn Bay pier were turned away from a council meeting.

Campaigners handed out 'Save The Pier' leaflets before the Bay of Colwyn Town Council meeting started last night.

But there were so many people trying to cram into the Town Hall some of them had to be turned away

One man was so exasperated at not being able to find a seat he called it a "disgrace" and accused the town councillors of taking bribes.

In December Conwy County Borough Council voted to seek de-listing and demolish the historic structure, which is currently in the middle of an ownership battle between the council and former owner Steve Hunt.

Colwyn Bay council had pledged £25,000 for the development of the pier in September 2013 and several town councillors expressed their disbelief they were not contacted regarding the crucial vote.

Several concerns were raised by those about the vote in December with the decision branded "premature" and "rushed".

Mayor Chris Perry allowed Gavin Davies, the director of Shore Thing pier pressure group, to speak.

He said: "We are upset some of the councillors did not see the business plan we had put together.

"I do not think they can make an informed decision based on the fact they did not see the plan.

"We spent £36,000 putting the plan together that not many Councillors have actually seen. How can they decide to demolish it?"

Mayor Chris Perry raised other questions about the decision by Conwy Council.

He said: "The biggest problem I have with the decision is that we do not know who owns it.  How can the council make a decision without knowing who owns it?"

Cllr Chris Hughes, who sits on both town and county council and tried in vain to convince County Councillors in December to vote for restoration, echoed Mr Davies's concerns about Shore Thing's business plan. 

He said: "My first concern is that the business plan was not presented. There were questions asked about the business plan which officers could not answer because it was not presented.

"My second concern is that funds already secured were sufficient to manage the development phase when the decision was made and those funds have now been returned.

"We know the cost for the actual demolition of the pier is estimated at £980,000 but that is without the de-listing process - which will not be easy.

"Experts from the Tate gallery have assessed the Eric Ravilious murals as being of significant worldwide importance. They were not even mentioned at the meeting and the removal or restoration of them certainly has not been costed."

Cllr Hughes moved a 10 point recommendation which involved contacting both Conwy Council and CADW admonishing the county council decision.

Cllr Abdul Khan, who also sits on the county council, seconded the recommendation and added: "Why weren't we consulted on this most important of decisions?

"The vote was flawed and we as a town council cannot let this matter rest."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/threat-colwyn-bay-pier-councillors-6506505

Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #517 on: January 24, 2014, 12:17:39 am »
Businessman comes forward with plan to save Colwyn Bay's pier:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/pizza-colwyn-bay-pier-businessmans-6555975

This makes sense to me. The guy ran a major construction firm for 40 years, so presumably knows what he's talking about. Of the council's estimate, he says: "£15m is far too high. The steel structure is still solid... £15m is a figure to scare off people from believing in the pier."

He also sees the pier as becoming a “magnet” tourist attraction for the area.

Offline Fester

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #518 on: January 24, 2014, 12:49:54 am »
...... another solution could be, to give it back to Steve Hunt.

I think it would be hilarious to see the look on his face, but it would save a fortune for CCBC in terms of legal costs and structural upkeep.   

I can just see it now..

CCBC ..''We give in,  here you are Steve, it's yours again'

Steve Hunt.... ''Thanks a lot,  SHIIITTT, what do I do now??? ''
Fester...
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Offline llewelyn

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #519 on: January 24, 2014, 12:53:30 am »
He sounds ok, dont know if all he says is accurate but I hope it is. and there is a sensible way forward, just know the regular up keep is expensive.

Offline viv

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #520 on: January 24, 2014, 08:02:39 pm »
I wonder if Tom Jones would like to be an investor? Jim Davidson invested in Great Yarmouth and was it Antony Hopkins that bought a farm and land on Snowdon?

Offline Blongb

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #521 on: January 25, 2014, 08:37:08 pm »

The steel structure is still solid...

Where does that come from BDM?
The steel supports that were replaced on Llandudno Pier, as being no longer fit for purpose, were all in far better condition than anything to be found on Colwyn Bay Pier.

Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline BMD

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #522 on: January 26, 2014, 04:47:59 pm »

The steel structure is still solid...

Where does that come from BDM?
The steel supports that were replaced on Llandudno Pier, as being no longer fit for purpose, were all in far better condition than anything to be found on Colwyn Bay Pier.

I was quoting the article I linked to (see my previous post in this thread) - it was a direct quote from the chap who ran Hankey construction for forty years. The good condition of the steel structural components was determined by previous structural survey, as mentioned in the council's output: "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected." etc.
 
Council ref: http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf

Offline Blongb

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #523 on: January 27, 2014, 01:24:10 am »

I was quoting the article I linked to (see my previous post in this thread) - it was a direct quote from the chap who ran Hankey construction for forty years. The good condition of the steel structural components was determined by previous structural survey, as mentioned in the council's output: "The structural appraisal completed to date indicates that the condition of the structural steel components of the Pier are better than expected." etc.
 
Council ref: http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000207/M00003683/$$Supp9759dDocPackPublic.pdf

From what I've read in the report i.e. appendix 2 9.1 concluded that the cast-iron piles and columns supporting the Pier were structurally sound but that some elements, such as the bracing system and steel girders supporting the steel deck, were in poor condition and would require replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that means the legs are fine but every thing else, including the bracing to support the legs, will have to be replaced. So I think to say the Steel Structure of the Pier is solid, might be construed as a trifle optimistic.  :(
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
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Offline DaveR

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Re: The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier
« Reply #524 on: January 27, 2014, 01:29:55 pm »
A lot of the steelwork does certainly need replacing, and all of the decking. It would be interesting to see what local contractors would charge for carrying out the work?