Crime and criminals

[Fester]

What's he look like?

[majormellons]

I can source a picture of him off Facebook, is it of to post that on here?..it is in the public domain?

[Ian]

Better from a newspaper.  FB's not totally within the public domain, As I understand it. The best option is to post a link to it.

[majormellons]

As advised, Mr. Austin Bellew

[born2run]

Well I've added him as a friend, seems a nice bloke 

[Fester]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that 'gentleman'

[born2run]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/austin-bellew-llandudno-mugger-snatched-7632804

There you go.

[DaveR]

Police officers cannot tackle crime because they are treated as social workers, claims leading officer

Published date: 18 September 2014
Published by: Free Press Reporter

POLICE officers cannot get on with the job of tackling crime because they are being treated as “uniformed social workers”, it is claimed by a leading North Wales officer.

Constable Simon Newport, chair of the North Wales Police Federation Joint Branch Board, says that front-line officers are becoming so frustrated that they are seeking jobs in other departments.

He says it is time for the police both locally and nationally to refuse to take on work which should be the responsibility of other organisations.

Writing in the latest edition of the Federation newsletter “Your Voice” PC Newport says that whereas in the past officers used to turn up for work ready to deal with incidents such as assaults and public order he and most of his colleagues now dreaded being faced with incidents that other agencies had passed on to the police “ to clear their boxes  prior to the weekend”.

Dealing with vulnerable people, some from missing from home, concerns for safety and mental health incidents take up so much time that they are now struggling to provide a service when it comes to preventing and investigating crime.

“I am sure I am not the only one to think that when I arrive for work nowadays I feel more like a uniformed social worker than a police officer whose  primary role is to prevent crime and  disorder,” he says.

PC Newport says that while there are some excellent examples of multi-agency working and information sharing it isn’t working at uniformed response level.

“It seems that many outside agencies pass on their responsibilities to the police service to deal with , especially after normal working hours and weekends,” he writes. “To that end, I feel we are also creating our own problems as we appear to be unable to say no to any organisation or member of the public.

“Many incidents I hear being passed over the airways should never be police responsibility but once we accept the incident the buck truly stops with us should anything go wrong.”

PC Newport says the change is affecting the morale of colleagues and supervisors.

“Many feel that their role is being undermined by the constant drain on resources from non-policing matters, not to mention the seemingly endless amount of reports required to ensure that all aspects of culpability are covered,” he says.

“Police officers join the service to serve and protect their communities, not to wrap them up in cottonwool.”

It is little wonder, he comments, that many officers are seeking other jobs within the Force away from frontline policing.

With so little time left to deal with crime officers are becoming increasingly frustrated that criminals are getting away with their offences.

"Targeting criminals was once bread-and-butter for the response officer,” says PC Newport. “It is now a luxury as there are fewer officers available and their time is taken up with social or welfare incidents.

“I can only see things getting worse as further budget cuts are introduced in the next financial year.

“As an organisation, both locally and nationally, we need to have the courage to stand up to other organisations that have all too easily passed their dirty washing on to us mainly because we are a 24/7 organisation, and say ‘No’.”

http://northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/138354/police-officers-cannot-tackle-crime-because-they-are-treated-as-social-workers-claims-leading-officer.aspx

[Ian]

“I am sure I am not the only one to think that when I arrive for work nowadays I feel more like a uniformed social worker than a police officer whose  primary role is to prevent crime and  disorder,”

And here I was thinking the primary responsibility of the Police is to enforce the law and safeguard the citizen.

"We also investigate missing people, whilst its not a crime to be missing, the police deal with this because there could potentially be a crime involved i.e. abduction, rape etc." (from UK Police blog)

“As an organisation, both locally and nationally, we need to have the courage to stand up to other organisations that have all too easily passed their dirty washing on to us mainly because we are a 24/7 organisation, and say ‘No’.”

Ignoring his small-minded jibes at 'other organisations' what does he suggest should be done when a child goes missing at 1900 on a Friday? The Police are adequately remunerated for their role and there's a long waiting list to get into North Wales Police, so perhaps he should seek less demanding employment?

[SteveH]

"Targeting criminals was once bread-and-butter for the response officer,” says PC Newport. “It is now a luxury  as there are fewer officers available and their time is taken up with social or welfare incidents.

From what I see in the press and TV they are already struggling to spend time "targeting criminals" ....the increasing amount of paperwork etc. ie  a simple arrest for drunk and disorderly can mean hours in the station.
“Many feel that their role is being undermined by the constant drain on resources from non-policing matters, not to mention the seemingly endless amount of reports required to ensure that all aspects of culpability are covered,”

And if as serious as he says, the "social Incidents" will be an additional drain on there time, spent on the streets.

"Ignoring his small-minded jibes at 'other organisations' what does he suggest should be done when a child goes missing at 1900 on a Friday? The Police are adequately remunerated for their role and there's a long waiting list to get into North Wales Police, so perhaps he should seek less demanding employment?"

I really do not think the above, would be considered a  "social or welfare" incident .

[Fester]

I don't believe that serving Police officers make these statements lightly.

Ian whilst you might be of the opinion that Police officers are adequately remunerated, it is less true than it used to be.
Wages, overtime payments etc, and Pensions have been severely truncated...  therefore they feel less values than they did.

This, coupled with the endless admin, and the soul-destroying inability to secure simple convictions for arrests that they DO make, leads to morale being eroded.

[born2run]

Again  I have sympathy with Fester's argument. I would never have believed that a Tory government would have attacked the Police and Armed Forces in the way they have.

[Ian]

Wages, overtime payments etc, and Pensions have been severely truncated...  therefore they feel less valued than they did.

I agree, but I still believe that the Police as a career is relatively well paid. They start on almost £26k for a 37 hour week, which rises to £41k for a sergeant after several years' service. It's true they work unsocial hours, but they benefit from fully paid sick leave, overtime - which is paid at a higher rate - and uniform, equipment and a lot of their living accommodation is provided.  Now, I accept they sometimes work in dangerous conditions, but if we compare their salaries with that of a British Soldier, whose uniform, accommodation on duty and equipment are similarly provided, it's quite revealing: starting salary for a 'squaddie' is £18k, compared with £26k for a police constable. Many Police forces provide food, yet a soldier has to contribute £33.00 per week for food. Like the Police, they enjoy inclusive food and accommodation when on deployment and army pensions are pretty good.

But where the comparison with this particular constable's statements and the army becomes interesting is that soldiers on deployment in Afghanistan have to accept all roles, as well as doing their primary duty, which is to eliminate the enemy while complying with all statuary rules of engagement. They all, however, have to engage with the indigenous population in the 'hearts and minds' mission decreed by their senior officers. In effect, that involves being pleasant to the Afghans and helping them out whenever possible. In other words, doing exactly what the constable believes the Police have no time for.

Don't get me wrong: both occupations are potentially dangerous, although I suspect being in the army comes out top, but what I am saying is this constable is claiming that other social agencies are simply dropping their 'dirty linen' on the Police at weekends because they want a quiet weekend themselves, yet all the social work agencies - the subjects of swingeing cuts from the coalition exactly like the Police - operate an active out of hours service to deal with precisely the alleged issues. 

I'll also declare an interest in that several members of my extended family are Met Officers of varying seniority, and we also have a colonel in the family.

[SteveH]

We seem to have latched onto salaries, and comparing the army and the police, I think that the question is, are they  (uniformed PC's) spending to much time on non criminal matters, it appeared to me, that was the point of the statement, and I believe they are.
On the army/police issue, soldiers can drop the "hearts and minds" mission if something more serious crops up, a PC could be stuck dealing with a "social" issue, I understand these are important, but is that what they are there for.          In these times of cuts and restructuring, I think they expect to much, and the statement needed to be made.

[Ian]

a PC could be stuck dealing with a "social" issue, I understand these are important, but is that what they are there for.

One detail is that the precise definition of 'social issue' has not been stated.  The reason I was concerned at the original post was the fairly strong sentiment that implied two things: the Police only exist to fight crime and, secondly, that the responsibility for everything other than crime should be borne by other agencies. The implication that 'other agencies' (interestingly, also not clearly defined) simply drop everything at 4pm on Friday evenings and pass it all over to the Police is, I suspect, misleading at best.

In our society crime, neediness and vulnerability go hand-in-hand, and often what is seen as crime can be something quite different. If the police refuse anything they deem 'not criminal' where does that leave the vulnerable, I wonder.