Author Topic: Crime and criminals  (Read 340628 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9095
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #600 on: July 21, 2013, 07:40:50 am »
Quote
Ian, this issue about caring less about major events far away, as opposed to less serious ones on our own doorstep is probably an inbuilt defence mechanism which serves to keep us sane.

I know.  And I'm just as guilty as anyone. I joined Amnesty several years ago to try to make some difference and because I did feel guilty about why far-away events didn't seem as important. Because they are, obviously.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Linda

  • Member
  • Posts: 304
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #601 on: July 21, 2013, 10:24:14 pm »
We obviously have to agree to defer on your softly softly approach Ian,. When i first moved to North Wales my husband was a police officer having worked in Manchester his 'beat' Moss side,coming here was wonderful in a way that the crime rate was so low .Not the same worry about his safety. Try explaining to the families of victims that there loved ones have been attacked, killed by someone who clearly had severe mental problems and that was known to the authorities to be a risk. Example (No names) child dragged out of a tent in Craigydon and murdered a number of years ago, numerous others also. As far as overseas atrocities other than support the revelant charities I feel theres little to be done by the likes of me. The great compassion I feel towards these youngsters as a mother I would like to gather them and put them somewhere safe.
In brief answer to the British attitude towards masturbation its a damn good job most of the public has control as and where  :o .   I agree there should be no shame attached but keep it private!!!!!!!!

Why does your Husband being a Police Officer make any difference? 

As for the Sophie Hook murder, the purpetrator was convicted and sentenced accordingly.

What does one do about the Madeleine McCann case where the child was allegedly abducted after being left unattended, and without supervision, whilst the parents went out for dinner and drinks with their friends?  Have the parents been castigated?  No!  Has any other child ever attracted so much attention, involved so much Police time, and cost so much money?  No!   And all because she was left alone with her younger siblings, and without protection.

If parents put their children at risk they must accept the blame.



 Yorkie! That is so wrong, in otherwords are you saying the Parents of these unfortunate children are more to blame than the Perverts committing the crime. &shake&


Offline Linda

  • Member
  • Posts: 304
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #602 on: July 21, 2013, 10:36:11 pm »
Quote
Ian, this issue about caring less about major events far away, as opposed to less serious ones on our own doorstep is probably an inbuilt defence mechanism which serves to keep us sane.

I know.  And I'm just as guilty as anyone. I joined Amnesty several years ago to try to make some difference and because I did feel guilty about why far-away events didn't seem as important. Because they are, obviously.

The atrocities in other countries are majorly important, maybe if we make our own country strong,caring and educated (but with some zero tolerance) ;) we stand more of a chance in making a difference and recognising what is happening. If that had been the case before ww2, people (hope to god they would) may have stopped the Holocaust, God Bless them all.

Offline Linda

  • Member
  • Posts: 304
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #603 on: July 21, 2013, 10:46:53 pm »
 A PS to that one I meant in my Ideal world. Agree with Fester i guess we have to have a switch off mechanism to keep our sanity when we hear such appalling things otherwise we would live in a permanent state of depression.

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #604 on: July 22, 2013, 06:33:20 am »

 Yorkie! That is so wrong, in other words are you saying the Parents of these unfortunate children are more to blame than the Perverts committing the crime. &shake&

No, that is not what I am saying.  But, if the Parents had NOT left the child unattended, no crime could have been committed.

Furthermore, how do you surmise it was a pervert in the McCann case?  There are a number of theories none of which have yet been proved.  After 6 years, the Portuguese Police, Methodo 3, Private Dicks from the UK and now Scotland Yard, the alleged perpetrator(s) has not yet been identified.

I have been following the Maddie case since day one and recommend that anyone interested in the case read Detective Amaral's book that he wrote after he was thrown off the case.  There are many peculiar aspects to this event including the very early involvement of UK Government.  Other books and theories have been published and all have their merits, you could find it all very interesting and eye opening. :o
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #605 on: July 22, 2013, 07:19:38 am »
Read from the beginning.  http://www.maddiemystery.blogspot.co.uk/
 :-X
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9095
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #606 on: July 22, 2013, 07:45:44 am »
I agree with Yorkie. A lot of things in the McCann case do not add up. I will say this, however: if you - Linda - had left three young grandchildren unsupervised and alone while you went off to have dinner, you'd have been the subject of a serious case review even if nothing had happened to the children. A woman from Rhyl was prosecuted for leaving her 8 year old alone in the house while she went to the local for a drink.

I'd urge you to read up about the case from any source you can. Yorkie's blog is a great start as it offers a lot of links.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13781
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #607 on: July 22, 2013, 08:07:35 am »
The McCanns were middle class, professional people. So, of course, they couldn't possibly have done anything wrong.  :roll:

Offline Nemesis

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 6276
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #608 on: July 22, 2013, 10:31:31 am »
On a similar vein:- Last night at approx 10.30 pm two very small children aged I would guess no older than 7 or 8 walked past our front gate-- alone and unsupervised, happily chattering in their own language. We knew who they 'belonged' to by their dress.

I know Llandudno isn't central Manchester-- but why oh why are these parents being so blind to danger?  And who would get the blame if they were attacked or whatever else?

To some people their mode of dress would single them out and my blood runs cold at the thought of what could happen.
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #609 on: July 22, 2013, 11:02:06 am »
Back to the Madie case, let's consider a few points.

1) The majority of incidents affecting children are committed by relatives, friends or people who are known to the family.

2) With all the World Wide publicity Maddie has received, would any abducter in their right mind hold on to her for such a long period of time?

3) From 2) what are the chances of Madeleine now being found alive?

4)  The only chance of Maddie being alive is if she was "stolen to order" as  a child to become part of a family group.  If this were the case she would by now probably be completely acclimatised iinto her new family with little, if any, memories of her previous life.

5)  In cases of alleged abduction or kidnapping, the Police shun any form of publicity as this will immediately put the offender on the defensive.  Unfortunately the McCanns chose to create the maximum amount of publicity right from the first discovery of her being missing.

Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Hugo

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 15170
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #610 on: July 22, 2013, 05:50:53 pm »
The McCanns were middle class, professional people. So, of course, they couldn't possibly have done anything wrong.  :roll:

I find the whole business upsetting and cannot imagine for one moment the torment the McCanns are going through but they have no one to blame but themselves and will have to live with their guilt for the rest of their lives.
Anyone else may have been charged with child neglect because that is what it was, there is no nice way of putting it other than that.
Yorkie is correct in everything he has said and his experience in the force will have led him to those conclusions.
What I find hard to except if that according to the papers the McCanns refused to answer all the questions put to them and I cannot understand why if they were so desperate to find Maddie. Obviously some of the questions would be of a personal nature but after all they were one of the last people to see her before she was abducted.
My thoughts are with that family and I pray that one day they will be united with Maddie.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 9095
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #611 on: July 22, 2013, 07:24:23 pm »
This from the Delaware Times USA (July 9th 2013):

"By CHRIS FREIND
Times Columnist

In past columns, I have championed Don Imus keeping his job, defended Barry Bonds’ achievements and stood up for the falsely accused Duke lacrosse players long before it was “fashionable” for the media to do so. I even opined that Paris Hilton was wrongly jailed, receiving unfair treatment because she was a celebrity.

But no matter how much I try, I simply cannot find anything worth defending about British couple Gerry and Kate McCann.

The McCanns, for a reason that wholly escapes me, have been worldwide media darlings since their then-3-year-old daughter, Madeleine, disappeared from a Portuguese resort in 2007. A disappearance, mind you, that was 100 percent preventable had Maddy’s parents — both well-to-do physicians — not left her alone, along with her twin 2-year-old siblings, in a ground-floor unlocked apartment not once, but repeatedly, while they sampled the local paella far from their children.

Such gross negligence should have made them pariahs, but instead, their vaunted PR machine fashioned them into something akin to “heroic victims.”

Over the years, they have raised millions, engendered the support of (misguided) icons such David Beckham and J.K. Rowling, had a private audience with the Pope, met with high-ranking staff of then-First Lady Laura Bush, wrote a book, and otherwise lavished in the limelight as globetrotting celebrities.

Along the way, lawsuits have been threatened against anyone who dared question the McCanns’ complicity in their daughter’s fate, despite significant inconsistencies in their stories. Quite sickeningly, their actual search for Maddy all too often seemed like an afterthought, as it was much cooler to hang with stars and dignitaries than do the grunt work.

Yet for all the baggage that should accompany them, their star power still shines bright, as the Scotland Yard, upon the direction of Prime Minister David Cameron himself, just re-opened the investigation, citing new leads and “persons of interest.”

Really? After six years and millions of British taxpayers’ money later, they finally have persons of interest?

Aren’t there laws on the books in Britain against child endangerment? Reckless behavior? Negligence? And to those who say Britain can’t prosecute for a crime committed overseas, you can’t have it both ways, as British investigators are reaching out across Europe in a (likely ill-fated) attempt to interrogate and possibly have suspects arrested in other countries.

It seems increasingly clear that McCann case is no longer about what happened to a little girl, but an attempt — some say cover-up — to absolve “upstanding Brits” of any responsibility, conveniently blaming Portugal, the poor man of Europe, for a botched investigation and overall ineptness.

Looking past the gushing pro-McCann headlines, many the world over believe the parents, accidentally or otherwise, were directly responsible for Maddy’s fate. I certainly cannot make that claim, though Gerry and Kate would seem to be guilty of child endangerment. That said, there remain inconsistencies which, to this day, remain unanswered.

Therefore, if Scotland Yard wishes to retain its legendary reputation, it needs to investigate the case from Square One, objectively, free from outside influence. No sacred cows, and no one off the table. And the only way to do that is to start with Gerry and Kate, (and their friends who accompanied them that fateful night), forcing the parents to answer tough questions. The taxpayers, and those who have so faithfully followed this saga for so long, deserve no less.

You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to ask the following:

1.) Will the McCanns and their friends take lie-detectors tests? While not guaranteed, they’re a good barometer. If there is nothing to hide, releasing the results would be a public relations boon, and the investigation could center on Madeleine — for a change.

2.) What time was Madeleine discovered missing? Was it 9 o’clock, as Kate states, or 10 o’clock as others report, and why the discrepancy? How long did it take for anyone to initially call the police, as there are reports of a significant delay. Kate stated that the shutters were forced open, but the police and hotel staff said there was no evidence of tampering. And Kate, why, upon discovering that your daughter was missing, did you return to the restaurant, leaving the 2-year-old twins alone (again!), while a predator could still have been lurking nearby?

3.) Kate yelled, “They’ve taken her”, but how did she know Madeleine was abducted? After all, the doors were unlocked, and Madeleine was known to sleepwalk.

Or perhaps this little girl just happened to awaken, scared,in a dark, unfamiliar place, and looked for the comfort of her parents. Not seeing them, might she have walked out the unlocked door to find them? And when Kate initially yelled “they” took her, to whom was she referring?

4.) The resort was extremely child-friendly. Why not use its inexpensive baby-sitting services? Some reports state that the McCanns did not want the children to be around people with whom they were unfamiliar. Yet, the same people who ran the day camp the children attended were also the baby sitters. And how could “strangers” be any worse than leaving three young children (with a combined age of 7) alone in an unlocked apartment?

5.) How often did the parents check the children before Madeleine went missing? Every hour, half-hour, or not at all? (The statements of the resort staff differ markedly from the McCanns). Since the room was a considerable distance away from the restaurant, and its view blocked, how could the McCanns compare that “secure arrangement” to eating in their backyard garden?

6.) During a BBC interview, Kate was adamant that the children would not awaken while she and Gerry were dining. Yet, since Madeleine reportedly had a history of sleepwalking, how could Kate be so sure of this?

7.) How many nights did the McCanns dine out while leaving the children alone? What were the distances of those restaurants from their room? Were any away from the hotel?

8.) How much money raised has actually has been allocated to the physical search for Madeleine? A thorough and independent forensic audit should be conducted.

9.) In an earlier interview, the McCanns stated, “Looking at it from where we are now, I don’t feel we were irresponsible, I feel we are very responsible parents.” Do they still feel that way?

10.) Assume that the police dog was accurate in its detection of death in the room, and the death was that of Madeleine. Why then would the perpetrator take away a dead child?

At a minimum, these questions are a logical starting point to get to the bottom of Madeleine’s disappearance.

As a wise man once said, lies reveal more than they conceal. If Scotland Yard does its job, perhaps we shall put that saying to the test.

Chris Freind is an independent commentator who operates FreindlyFireZone.com. He can be reached at CF@FreindlyFireZone.com. His column appears every Wednesday."
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13781
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #612 on: July 22, 2013, 07:41:47 pm »
The McCanns, for a reason that wholly escapes me, have been worldwide media darlings since their then-3-year-old daughter, Madeleine, disappeared from a Portuguese resort in 2007.
He obviously doesn't keep a very close eye on the UK press. The McCanns were vilified at one point by the entire press and practically accused of being involved in the murder of their child.

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #613 on: July 22, 2013, 07:56:25 pm »
Mr Freind seems to be bang on what many intelligent and interested people think.

The main theory expressed is that Maddie suffered a fatal accident in the apartment and efforts were made by a person or persons, as yet unknown, to arrange a cover up of the facts.   Whether this is true is not certain, but many aspects of the evidence, forensic and otherwise, give some support to this theory.
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Hugo

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 15170
Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #614 on: July 22, 2013, 11:32:50 pm »
1.) Will the McCanns and their friends take lie-detectors tests? While not guaranteed, they’re a good barometer. If there is nothing to hide, releasing the results would be a public relations boon, and the investigation could center on Madeleine — for a change.


That was one of the questions that puzzled me at the time as desperate situations call for desperate measures.   I had also read that an American Psychic Crime fighter had been so successful in solving crimes that she was warned that if she continued to work for the Police then a contract would be taken out to have her killed.  As a result of this threat she ceased her activities with the Police.
Whether the McCanns considered approaching such a person, I don't know but I just hope that if they didn't then it wasn't Religion that made them decide against it.