Author Topic: Financial matters  (Read 144672 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2011, 09:02:40 am »
BONUS culture has come under intense scrutiny since the ongoing financial crisis began in 2007. Many people have been outraged by the way some bankers and top executives seem to have been rewarded for failure. But few have asked whether performance-related bonuses really do boost performance. The answer seems so obvious that even to ask the question can appear absurd. Indeed, despite all the fuss about them, financial incentives continue to be introduced in more and more areas, from healthcare and public services to teaching and academia.

"Economists and workplace consultants regard it as almost unquestioned dogma that people are motivated by rewards, so they don't feel the need to test this," says Alfie Kohn, a teacher turned writer. "It has the status more of religious truth than scientific hypothesis."
So it may come as a shock to many to learn that a large and growing body of evidence suggests that in many circumstances, paying for results can actually make people perform badly, and that the more you pay, the worse they perform.

There are some obvious reasons why such payments can backfire. It has been argued, for instance, that cash bonuses contributed to the financial crash, because traders had little motivation to ensure their companies' long-term survival

"Once you start making people's rewards dependent on outcomes rather than behaviours, the evidence is people will take the shortest route to those outcomes," says psychologist Edward Deci of the University of Rochester in New York state.

These studies suggest that offering rewards can stop people doing things for the sheer joy of it, an idea known as the overjustification effect. This was the basis for a series of books by Kohn in which he argues that rewarding children, students and workers with grades, incentives and other "bribes" leads to inferior work in the long run.


New Scientist 12/4/11


Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

gwil

  • Guest
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #136 on: April 13, 2011, 07:11:00 pm »
I would argue that the Guardian is one of the two only really trustworthy and objective papers around (the Observer being the other), and has a solid reputation for being fairly unbiased in its reporting.

Couldn't agree more about the Guardian. Their stance on tax avoiding measures is impeccable (until it comes to their Group). Also impeccable is their stance on homophobia. Anyone calling a man a Homo would be rightly rounded on. Apart from the cartoonist who produced the one of Hague and called him a Homo which was published in ... well, guess. And The rich Toynbee..where to start.

Maybe the solid reputation is only among it's own readership?


Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2011, 07:17:44 am »
Quote
Maybe the solid reputation is only among it's own readership?

Not sure how it can be otherwise, by its very definition, actually, but both the Guardian and Observer are owned by trusts, and thus are independent of the whims of capricious owners. On the other hand , if you prefer the Sun, Mail, Times etc.  you're simply lining the pockets of those who stand to make a lot out of encouraging their readers by some rather flaky reporting styles.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2011, 08:14:43 am »
Roumanian seems to have uncovered something here...

"The Guardian Media Group is one of the shrewdest corporate avoiders of tax in Britain, in 2008 it made a £300 million profit and yet managed to pay no corporation tax, the following year in 2009 it still paid no corporation tax, it uses the offshore Caymans tax haven to own assets, it uses tax efficient trusts and deploys all manner of perfectly legal tax shelter strategies to avoid paying tax"

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2011, 08:21:21 am »
But surely, the issue is in the very quote you post:

Quote
it uses tax efficient trusts and deploys all manner of perfectly legal tax shelter strategies to avoid paying tax"

and as for information sources,  when you start quoting from that ultra-right wing bastion of insincerity...

 _))*
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #140 on: April 14, 2011, 08:28:11 am »
All large UK corporations use the very same measures as GMG to avoid paying tax, yet they get vilified for doing so (generally in the pages of the Guardian). Surely that's gross hypocrisy?

Facts are facts, respective of the source. If they are incorrect, of course, that would be a different story...

gwil

  • Guest
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #141 on: April 14, 2011, 12:40:10 pm »
All large UK corporations use the very same measures as GMG to avoid paying tax, yet they get vilified for doing so (generally in the pages of the Guardian). Surely that's gross hypocrisy?

Facts are facts, respective of the source. If they are incorrect, of course, that would be a different story...

And the Guardian group have not made any credible headway in convincing anyone that they are no different to anyone else in their tax arrangments. Anyone else of course includes the Marxist Milliband family who have had resounding success with their legal tax avoiding measures. Meaning us poor suckers on PAYE have to pay more.

I'm intrigued with the concept of a rag having a solid reputation because it's own readership likes what it says. By the same token then the rags produced by the BNP and the other suchlike far left weirdoes like the SWP/Greens (same hierarchy mostly), Respect, Labour Party etc are solid reputable papers?

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2011, 09:00:12 am »
Quote
I'm intrigued with the concept of a rag having a solid reputation because it's own readership likes what it says. By the same token then the rags produced by the BNP and the other suchlike far left weirdoes like the SWP/Greens (same hierarchy mostly), Respect, Labour Party etc are solid reputable papers?

It's more a question of which are the least bad, when we're debating paper media.  Personally, I prefer something that has a good track record of reporting.  I grant the Gruniad isn't perfect - who is? But it remains a paper whose reporting styles are consistently intelligent, whose stories are - in the main - well researched and presented without the inherent distortions applied by other papers and, above all, where the income is ploughed into the paper itself,  rather than the lining the pockets of the mega-rich.

And I see no conflict whatsoever with the Gruniad's stance on tax avoidance.  What they do is perfectly legal, and  - it could be argued - even in the public interest, but the salient point is that were they not to do it, their ability to compete as a high-quality rag would be severely compromised. And if Guido Fawkes is running scared enough to start mud-slinging, then  they must be doing something right    WWW
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

gwil

  • Guest
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2011, 09:43:13 am »
 

If you get the time I'd like to see the argument that it's in the publics interest (note public not lefties) that the Group get away with their hypocrisy. But on second thoughts, I wouldn't believe a word of it so maybe not eh. Save yourself some bother.  ;D

Great attempt at reducing Guidos researching to mud slinging though Ian. Running scared? Reminds me of how some see events in the 3T arms.  ;D

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #144 on: April 15, 2011, 09:58:35 am »
It's worth noting that the Guardian itself never makes a profit (GNM made a £53m loss in FY2010), it's only the more commercial elements to the GMG like their AutoTrader investment that make any money.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #145 on: April 15, 2011, 10:43:34 am »
Quote
If you get the time I'd like to see the argument that it's in the publics interest (note public not lefties) that the Group get away with their hypocrisy.

It's fairly simple, actually. It can easily and forcefully be argued that it's most definitely in the public interest to have  balanced news media. As long as the mega-rich, such as Murdoch and the Barclay Brothers, use their wealth to publicise their opinions under the guise of "news", then it's essential to have a balanced viewpoint. However, to do that the newspapers themselves have to use the current system to stay afloat, otherwise the balance is lost when the papers go bust.

This isn't a question of Right or Left wing;  it's a question of balance, and while we're still a free society, we need multiple news sources to keep it that way.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #146 on: April 15, 2011, 11:06:34 am »
“He who controls the media controls the minds of the public” – Noam Chomsky

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #147 on: April 15, 2011, 11:12:50 am »
However, to do that the newspapers themselves have to use the current system to stay afloat, otherwise the balance is lost when the papers go bust.
Perhaps the Guardian feels it has some sort of right to exist, it certainly has a somewhat complacent feel to it. If you look at 'i', the 20p cut down version of the Independent, that has been a tremendous success. Why doesn't the Guardian try something similar to boost its declining readership? They might be able to break even then and even contribute some taxes to the economy...  :P

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8954
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #148 on: April 15, 2011, 11:35:43 am »
The i is excellent, I agree.  However, not being part of the Gruniad's governing body, I couldn't really say  :D
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Financial matters
« Reply #149 on: April 15, 2011, 11:57:39 am »
not being part of the Gruniad's governing body
Why on earth not?!  ;D