Author Topic: National pride  (Read 13418 times)

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Offline Fester

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Scottish Referendum
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2014, 10:54:28 pm »
Now that it's done and dusted I'll vent my spleen.

What a complete waste of time and MONEY that was.
Moreover, what a fantastic way to deepen divisions between nations, regions and even families and neighbours for generations to come.

I really wish that the vote had have been YES, because then we could really see what happens to a state that splinters off to see if it can be economically viable in this world today.

I have come across many Scottish visitors in the last year, and spoken about this issue.
Those who were voting NO, were doing so for a variety of relatively pleasant reasons, or a fear of the unknown.

Those who were voting YES, were basically doing so because they hated the English. They were telling me that to my face because they thought I was Welsh!
I always knew that a portion of the Scots cheered when England lost at football, I thought it was a small minority and it was harmless banter.... but these last few weeks have really opened my eyes.

So, Andy Murray and all your Nationalistic cronies, hear this.... I will NOT be venturing North of the border again in my life, as it now transpires that a very large proportion of you HATE ME.  Then I shall spend my money elsewhere.
I will be closing my bank accounts with ANY of the Banks which are part of the RBS,  that includes my business account with the Halifax.  First thing Monday, its SHUT,
I will also be swapping my energy supplier away from Scottish Power.

I would rather have a few days at New Year in Iraq, because the weather will be better, and the folk over there are too busy hating each other, rather than hating me.

Never had anything against the Scots, why would I?   But now..... it's time for a re-think.

Alex Salmond,  your legacy will be one of division, acrimony and eventual FAILURE.





Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

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Re: Scottish Referendum
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2014, 08:10:00 am »
I was pondering whether to move this post to 'games and jokes', since I couldn't follow much - if any - of its logic. Then I re-read it and realised that if you substituted 'Welsh' for 'Scottish', or really any one of a number of the UK's national groups, then it makes perfect sense as actually a thinly veiled metaphor for your entire existence, Fester.  WWW WWW WWW
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: National pride
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2014, 08:53:20 am »
The whole subject puzzles me! Now some English people want independence from, er, England? How far does this go, remember there will be another layer of bureaucracy, which we will have to pay for!
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Offline Ian

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Re: National pride
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2014, 08:56:05 am »
I suspect we're seeing the start of a concerted push for federalism. Can't wait until North Wales declares for secession and independence :-))
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: National pride
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2014, 10:08:14 am »
Independence for Rhos on Sea!  D)  :laugh:
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline SteveH

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Re: National pride
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2014, 10:17:32 am »
Ref. Fester 19 Sep.
"I have come across many Scottish visitors in the last year, and spoken about this issue"
"Those who were voting YES, were basically doing so because they hated the English."

I was wondering how many of the three and a half million Scottish voters, you had met.?

"So, Andy Murray and all your Nationalistic cronies."

I would not call these quotes overly nationalistic
"Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity, last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!"

Ref. Mailonline.
Murray has remained ambiguous about his stance on the referendum until today.
He previously said he thought Scots should avoid making a decision "based on emotion" and should instead focus on "what is best economically for Scotland".
But speaking Last month, he said he would play tennis for Scotland if it became independent, but said he thought it was unlikely to happen.

He told MailOnline: "If Scotland became independent, then I imagine I would be playing for Scotland. I haven't thought much about that yet because I don't think it's looking too likely that it's going to happen".




Offline mull

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Re: National pride
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2014, 11:31:00 am »
Anyone know country Andy Murray lives in and pays his taxes ?

A lot of other "celebraties" jumping on the Yes bandwagon not either living in Scotland or paying UK taxes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: National pride
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2014, 12:23:01 pm »
Anyone know country Andy Murray lives in and pays his taxes ?

A lot of other "celebraties" jumping on the Yes bandwagon not either living in Scotland or paying UK taxes.

"Although born in Scotland, Murray lives in Surrey with girlfriend Kim Sears."

“I started competing for Great Britain when I was 11. I’m 27 now and I’ve been competing for Great Britain for 16 years,” he told Sunday Times."
 

Offline Fester

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Re: National pride
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2014, 12:38:07 am »
Steve, to answer your question, how many Scots have I spoken to on the subject in the last year,  the answer is a lot, and a damn sight more than anyone on here (apart from Mull

As usual, I was posting from EXPERIENCE, and posting MY opinions, although that is never popular on here, and usually denigrated, moderated, amended or otherwise picked apart.   No matter, I know what I know.

The point I was trying to convey, that no one has commented on, is that there will be a negative legacy for Scotland.
They have shown that a very large percentage of the population wish to break away from the UK and isolate themselves.
Tourism will suffer, business will suffer, and the divisions within families and communities will not easily be forgotten.
Fester...
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Offline Ian

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Re: National pride
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2014, 08:20:15 am »
 _))* _))* _))*

I think it's more to do with how you post rather than what you post, F. However, when you say

Quote
I really wish that the vote had have been YES, because then we could really see what happens to a state that splinters off to see if it can be economically viable in this world today.

I'd given that some thought, as I imagine most Scots have. I'm pretty sure it would have made almost no difference in the short term. The Scots already have their own system of jurisprudence and their own education system, so really we're looking at Health and Financial stability as the two questions, and I'm pretty certain nothing would have been done to change either of those issues in the short term. In the longer term, however, I suspect that there would have been moves to do two things: first and foremost, make Edinburgh a significant financial centre by creating similar incentives to those the UK coalition has already put in place for London. Salmond would have realised that the UK's quicker than expected recovery from the crash precipitated by the banking industry is due in no small part to that same banking industry (which is rapidly returning to all its old ways, I fear) and Cameron has already said he won't impose the same conditions on the trading floor as the Europeans are demanding. Thus, Edinburgh and London would find themselves in competition and banks have no loyalty, as they've proved many times in the past, so if the incentives and guarantees were right they'd relocate like a shot.

Secondly, he'd realise that to sustain the health service in Scotland he'd have stark choices: raise taxes or attract more business. He wouldn't want to raise taxes, so he'd look to similar tiny countries, who are independent and enjoy high standards of living.  Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark and Norway all offer models which he could easily adapt. Switzerland especially is probably the ultimate democracy and it helps that the topography is similar :-))

Then he'd have to look to exports. The Scottish Whisky exports are already significant and a good earner for the country but tourism has the potential to be a much greater earner than at present. Scotland also has rather a lot of some natural resources: fresh water is one, and this has been the driest September in 50 years for us, so I imagine it won't be that long before we start hearing of hosepipe bans in England, anyway.

Overall, I really think Scotland would have done well out of independence, but we shouldn't lose sight of what triggered all this.

When devolution was first proposed, those at Westminster determined that both Scotland and Wales should have a voting system for their assemblies that would effectively prevent any single party gaining an overall majority. Thus, in an unbelievably self-serving act of utter dishonesty they forced the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments to use proportional representation - the same system which all party leaders other than the LIb Dems have strenuously denied the UK electorate over the years. Despite that, the SNP gained the overall majority that the Westminster gang believed would be impossible. I believe we could see a similar situation occur in Wales, so it's worth bearing in mind that it's not the English per se whom the Scots dislike, but rather the Westminster Parliament.

And I've lost count of the number of times the BBC starts its national weather forecast with words like "It's going to be a beautiful day..." when what they mean is that it's not going to rain in London.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: National pride
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2014, 10:17:49 am »
"As usual, I was posting from EXPERIENCE, and posting MY opinions."

Hi Fester, I had no problems, with your opinions, other than you felt "Hated" by the Scots, and I tried to point that out with my reply, I am sure there are extremists but, overall I think Ian got it right.. "that it's not the English per se whom the Scots dislike, but rather the Westminster Parliament." and possible the English football team.

Quote
"The point I was trying to convey, that no one has commented on, is that there will be a negative legacy for Scotland. They have shown that a very large percentage of the population wish to break away from the UK and isolate themselves. Tourism will suffer, business will suffer, and the divisions within families and communities will not easily be forgotten."

I can only hope that you are wrong, and the OPINIONS of the Scottish voters will not be held against them, in the long term, and it is my fervent hope that you will cancel your trip to Iraq, and cross  the border of probably one of the most hospitable countries in the world.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 10:57:55 am by Ian »

Offline Hugo

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Re: National pride
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2014, 11:42:45 am »
I think and hope that the Referendum does not have a negative effect on Scotland or it's people.  It doesn't bother me one bit although I am glad to see that they have voted to stay in the UK  and I'm also hoping to go there next year for a short break.
The point is that the vote for Scottish Independence was for the Scottish people to decide and not Westminster but now that it has been decided perhaps the Government can do something positive for the UK as there are many other important issues to resolve.
There is a General Election coming up next year and every one has the freedom to vote on it and whichever way they decide to vote then I hope others  won't hold it against them as it is their right to vote whichever way they want.

Offline SteveH

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Re: National pride
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2014, 12:13:02 pm »
Hi Fester,  Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say  I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political.     $good$

Offline Fester

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Re: National pride
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2014, 11:19:13 pm »
Hi Fester,  Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say  I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political.     $good$

Probably got moderated off Steve.
Anyhow, I must have imagined all those conversations I had, and vitriol I saw displayed against the English in general.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline born2run

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Re: National pride
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2014, 10:54:02 am »
Hi Fester,  Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say  I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political.     $good$

Probably got moderated off Steve.
Anyhow, I must have imagined all those conversations I had, and vitriol I saw displayed against the English in general.

What a load of rubbish  $good$ So do all of the euro sceptics in the UK hate all the European people and are largely xenophobic. Or do they just not want to be governed by those countries? Why should people voting to be self governed make them in any way anti-English?What about the English people who wanted Scotland to become independent, do they hate the English as well? Do they hate themselves? Do they wake up every morning and spit a bile of hatred at themselves in the mirror?