great orme cemetery

[Cambrian]

Llwydgoed School is more commonly known as Bryn y Maen School.  If you follow the Llanrwst Road south from Bryn y Maen Church, it is at the first turning on the right which is a road leading down to Glan Conwy. The school itself was quite small and isolated.  It closed closed about 12 years ago but continued to be used by the Education Department but I am not sure for what - some sort of resource centre possibly. The school house adjoins the school.

[jane B]

Thanks Cambrian.

[Hugo]

Llwydgoed Council Primary School (1930-1996) is not far from where I live and I must have gone past it hundreds of times but never knew it by that name.  It's fairly remote as schools go but whenever I went past years ago you would hear the children before you could even see the school.     
It's situated just off the Upper Llanrwst Road and as Cambrian said it's located on the corner of the first turning on the right.
I've enclosed a photo of the school as it is now but to get your bearings right there's another shot of the school taken from a crossroads about 100  yards further on.
The 2nd turning on the right from Bryn Y Maen is the road to Glan Conwy and Moriah Chapel was just down that road less than half a mile away so the two buildings were not that far apart.

[jane B]

Thanks for the photos Hugo. They are great for making sure you have the right place! I'm just glad it hasn't been pulled down. Hope your Xmas preparations are well under way. Hope you and your family have a lovely time.

[Hugo]

Thanks for your good wishes Jane, I wish you and the family the same too.
Last night I was reading Chris Draper's book " Llandudno before the hotels" and it's a very good read at £9.95 and covers Llandudno's history up to the mid 1800's.
The early Roberts family has a very close connection with the Baptists, Fforddlas and Glanwydden and I was reading pages 221-225 and found things very interesting. The was one article about Margaret Owen-"Rebel with a cause" and she was quite an eccentric lady who walked from Llandudno to Fforddlas (7 miles one way) to attend the Chapel there and she did this by herself for about 12 years.
Another one had a direct link with what you have found out about the Roberts and very briefly it told the story first of all about Richard Williams and his wife who farmed Maesdu and was also a Mostyn Bailiff.  They converted into the Baptist faith but when John Phillips the Mostyn agent found out he ordered them to abandon their faith. They refused and were forced to leave the farm at Maesdu.
Now Lord Mostyn (Mostyn Estates) in addition to being a land stealer he was a bully and wanted everone to be in the established Church.
This is when the Roberts connection came in, a later Mostyn agent adopted a more positive approach and instead of bullying them he tried to bribe them towards Anglicanism.   He spotted a potential advocate for the Establishment cause and encouraged a young John Williams of Efail Y Waen  Glanwydden ( a Mostyn tenancy at Glanwydden)  to study and offered to sponsor him "to go to Tamworth to prepare for Priesthood in the Anglican Church"
Arrangements were made for John Williams to preach in St Tudno's Church and as he made his way from Glanwydden he was walking past Capel Bach (Tabernacle in Mostyn St) and heard the sound of worship in the Chapel so he went inside where he was warmly greeted by the Brotherhood and receiced sustenance for his body and a blessing for his sole in the worship at Capel Bach.  He allowed the service in St Tudno's Church to take its own course.
John Williams was not seen again in the Church of England!     I wonder what Lord Mostyn thought of that.

[jane B]

Church going times have certainly changed! I don't think there are many who would walk 7 miles regularly to attend church or chapel.
I attended a Baptist church but it was at the end of my street!

[Hugo]

I was at the Archives today and had a list copied of the Roberts' buried in Glanwydden. There's also a plan of the location of the graves.
Still couldn't find any definite grave of Enoch Roberts Snr but I did see in the Burial List 5 entries with just initials and no details whatsoever.
The initials E R were listed at plot A 108 and could possibly be Enoch's but that Plot is right at the top of the Jungle and they must have been one of the first people to have been buried in this Baptist Cemetery.   
Jane, I hope that you've got Tarzan handy to take you up there because you're going to need him!

[jane B]

Thanks Hugo. If I had a pound for every time I've had the Tarzan joke!

[Hugo]

I wanted to find out more about Glanwydden Cemetery and in particular the graves A 036 and A108 so I put on some protective gear and armed with my garden loppers made my way up Ffordd Wiga to the Cemetery.
I had some funny looks from a couple of locals who must have thought that I was quackers at the way I was dressed but went through the metal kissing gate that is the entry to the Cemetery and went into the jungle (sorry Jane. that's another pound I owe you! )
I found grave No A036 which is that of Hugh and Elizabeth Roberts and was interested because of the reference to Pennill  (verse) in the Burial Book.  I took a photo but didn't copy the inscription but will be able to find it in the Archives.  I had a little Robin following me in the undergrowth and suspect he was after some food from the clearing I did.
The grave at the top of the Cemetery was the one I was really interested in but I had an awful job trying to find it, even with the plan of the Cemetery in front of me.
Eventually I did find it after removing brambles and thorn bushes and plastic containers that hid it from view. The headstone was a roughly carved stone, rough on one side but smooth on the other and simply bore the initials E R .   I have no proof whatsoever but have a feeling that it is the grave of a pauper and that pauper I believe is Enoch Roberts Snr the G G G G Grandfather.  Enoch was a Baptist and in later life a pauper.   I've had so much difficulty tracing Enoch's resting place because in the Burial book it is only down as E R with no other information, but I'll ask the Archives again.
The Cemetery is one of the worst I've seen and feel that more respect should be given to this site and some effort should be made to clear it up.

[Hugo]

Glanwydden Cemetery

[emma p]

Hugo, you are our hero......a real life Indianna Jones !!!! What a find.......absolutely, without a doubt 'our Enoch'.
My question is....what of Elinor his wife ?
Do we know when either of them died ? I know they were both 60 in 1841.
The pictures are fab and i love the list of Glanwydden names........ive been matching them up by the numbers.
Sephorah Roberts is intriguing me........??
I await your translation of hugh and elizabeths grave. 

[jane B]

Hugo you are my Tarzan!!! Above and beyond the call of any local historian! I feel as you do that it must be Enoch's grave, so nice to know it has been marked in some way. Emma, I have news on the Sephora name in Glanwydden. She was married to Owen Roberts the youngest of Enoch's children from Jubilee Street. I have written you a note and posted it today with my latest finds. The children of Sephora and Owen are still alive although old and the wife of one of them, Iorwerth, is in a nursing home in Llandudno.I don't know all the names of the children because they are still alive Ancestry will not show them. It's all coming together quite nicely. We might get a family reunion yet!!!

[Hugo]

I thought that I had found the grave when I took this picture but when I cleared the grave it was just the bottom part of another grave. The grave I believe to be Enoch's was about 8 foot away in the undergrowth to the left of the picture.
After I cleared the undergrowth and cleaned the headstone I had a nice feeling that it was Enoch's final resting place as everything tied up.   Baptist Cemetery, pauper's grave, Glanwydden, the initials E R and as I think Enoch died in 1852 the grave was in the location of graves of the same age.
I don't know what happened to Eleanor but as I've mentioned before, you can't take the ages on the 1841 Census as being correct as the Census form shows that they have been rounded down to the nearest 5 years.  Eleanor was not in the 1851 Census with Enoch so there is a possibility that she had already died by that time.
You've been really busy with your research Jane and I'm sure that you'll be reunited with other members of the Roberts family soon. Being local I know a number of Roberts but there are two I want to find out more about and if anything positive turns up I'll post it on here.             

[jane B]

Thanks for doing that Hugo, it is nice to know it is no longer hidden. I have found another relative on Ancestry who has posted a family tree with our Roberts'.That is three in as many days. I hope I hear back but it will be a long shot.

[speilberg91]

Hi, I'm a newcomer to this thread, I'm Emma and Jane's new found relative, from the Llandudno area. Just wanted to say that on the cenotaph in Llandudno, the name John Williams, he is the grandfather of Valerie Rathbone, who married Elfed Wyn Roberts (my taid) who is the son of Owen Roberts, if that's clear!