great orme cemetery

[jane B]

Thanks for the obit Hugo. I can vouch for the wildness of the cemetery, I have the scratches to prove it! Thanks for making it at least possible to get in for a look! I would volunteer to tidy it up, is there a church warden to contact?
Emma, I trawled through the deaths on the Carnarvon traders site, looking from 1861 to 1871. I found a Robert Roberts that matched our dates. There were a few others but not as many as you might think and all the ages were wrong by a long way. The one I found died on 24 .9.1870 aged 59. He was at Pool Lane. Still can't find any trace on the 1841 census with wife Ann. Did find one but he was still with her in 1851 and we know he was with Margaret in 1851.

[Hugo]

You're welcome Jane, the Llandudno Advertiser was good from about 1900 for finding the obituaries,births, marriages etc but before then the paper wasn't that good for local stuff.
I think that you've got a lot more of your family buried in Glanwydden, I was going to get a photo copy of all the Roberts' buried there but there are so many in the burial book for Capel Ainon that I decided against it.   At one time there were more Roberts' in Glanwydden than there were for the other locals, Rabbits that is, so it is saying something.   
Now that you've found the Fforddlas connection I'm sure that some of the family will be buried in the Cemetery at Llansanffraid Glan Conwy.  I never looked in the burial book for that Church as there was no link with it at the time but will look at it whenever I go back to the Archives.
The last time I was at that Church was when I was a pallbearer at my Uncle Evan's funeral and he was buried right at the top of the steep graveyard!

[jane B]

I've been doing some more delving into the census records. Oh! the joys of retirement! (Early!) I could not find William Roberts Baptist minister and teacher from Llansffraaid on the 1841 census but I tried looking for his daughter Elizabeth and had better luck. On the 1841 census the address is Fforddlas, living there William Roberts school teacher aged 30,
Jane Roberts wife aged 30
Enoch (oh joy of joys another one!) aged 5
Elizabeth aged 2
I traced Enoch through the next 3 census,
1851 aged 15 an agricultural labourer on a 60acre farm owned by Anne Davies a farmer widow at Trallwyn.
1861 aged 25 a lodger with the Davies family, Anne now presumably dead as not listed, the address given was Pentrefelin. He was down as a joiner and carpenter.
1871 aged 35 married to Sarah aged 40. He is down as a wheelwright.
Children:- Sarah aged 7
William:- aged 5
Diane(a):- aged 2

1881 aged 45, Carpenter and farmer of 5 acres.
Wife sarah aged 50,
William aged 15,
Maria aged 9
He is at an address in 1871 & 1881 1 Factory Cottages

1891 aged 55 still Factory Cottages
Maria daughter aged 19
Sarah J Davies granddaughter aged 8
Obviously wife Jane has died by now, could not find Enoch on the 1901 census so he must have also died. I tried to find William on the 1891 and subsequent census but could not. Has he also died?
Quite a productive day. Hope the info is correct.

[Hugo]

Good job that you're not working Jane because you've had a really busy and productive day today.   

  Just in case it helps with your research the following townships are part of Glan Conwy:-   Trellan, Trebwll, Tre Trallwyn, Tre Deunant and Pen y Rhos.     

[emma p]

Wow you guys, you have been busy today !! 
Well, our suitcase is pretty much packed and the weekend cant come quick enough......mind you, steve and I are popping paracetomal for coughs and colds that are brewing nicely and the forecast is for rain !! 
Ive just googled Llanrhos and Glanwydden so i know exactley where were going.....i knew anyway but just wanted to be 100%.
Hoping to stop at Llansanffraid on the journey in too.
Hugo, where is the cemetery from the church in Glanwydden ?
The Orme cemetery is also on the list.....a definate must do, as always. Jane i will look for your grandmothers too.
Theres alot to fit into our three little days as well as all the usual stuff- pier, playing on the beach etc !!!
I have two little crosses...one for Johns grave at Llanrhos and one for the cenotaph and some flowers for Enoch, Mary, Richard and Roberts grave.
Really looking forward to it all and to treading in the footsteps of 'Our Roberts' '
 

[jane B]

Emma, have a great time! Look forward to your news when you get back.

[Hugo]

Emma, go down the road where the Windmill is and turn right at the Queens Head and go down Waun Road.  The 1st turning on your left is called Ffordd Wiga and that is where the Cemetery is. Don't take your car up the lane as there is no parking available so just leave the car safely at the T junction.
Go up Ffordd Wiga for about 100 yards and on your right before any houses is a metal kissing gate. Go through there and you'll find the old Cemetery on your left. Richards grave is in the 2nd row about 5 along and Williams is just behind it in the next row,I think.
If you are going to Llanrhos and don't know where John's grave is, go to the back of the Church.  With your back to the Church go down the steps on the right and about 20 yards further is a grass path on the right. John's grave is near the end but look out for a group of headstones in Welsh Slate because that is where some of the soldiers are buried.
Good luck and I hope the weather is ok while you are here.     

[Hugo]

It's surprising the things that they have in the Archives because I found a burial list and a plan of the graves in Salem Fforddlas. I didn't even know that they had a graveyard there. I presume that it's behind the Old Chapel out of sight because I've been past many times and never noticed anything.
Because of the family links to Fforddlas I've posted a list of all the Roberts' that are buried there.  William Roberts was a minister  for 28 years and died on 5th July 1865 aged 57.
Jane Roberts died on the 30th January 1850 aged 39 and they are buried together at plot D 020

I've enclose another photo of Vadre Cottages and the other photo is of Drillo View Penrhynside. No 1 is the one on the left of the photo.

[emma p]

Thanks Hugo for that info on cemetery and wow, what alot of Roberts there are at Fforddlas too !
To be honest i cant make head nor tale of this branch of the tree.........am i right in saying we found two more of Enoch seniors children......Robert Roberts being one and William (the minister) was his son ? Im sure Jane will set me straight.
 
My only thought is that he seemed to do quite well as did his children and his brothers Richard and Elias (but then again Richard who lived at Rofft Bach has been described as a 'scavenger' on a census) so why on earth was Enoch Senior buried a pauper ?? and what of Elinor ?

I did google 'Drillo View' and saw that house but wasnt sure, so thanks for the confirmation. I know where that is im sure......come down the hill to the island and turn right ? Is it behind the 'nursery'/garden centre somewhere ?

 

[jane B]

Hugo. More good work with the Fforddlas cemetery. Another place to visit! Emma, Robert and William were brothers, as well as brother to Richard your gt,gt,gt grandfather, all sons of old Enoch.

[Hugo]

I did google 'Drillo View' and saw that house but wasnt sure, so thanks for the confirmation. I know where that is im sure......come down the hill to the island and turn right ? Is it behind the 'nursery'/garden centre somewhere ?
 
[/quote]

I'm afraid not Emma.  At the top of the hill turn right then immediately turn left to go into the village of Penrhynside.  It's a narrow road and goes through the village. The first pub on the right is called the Penrhyn Arms and the cottage is on a high bank next door to it.
You need to be here for a month to see all the things you are searching for but it's a good excuse for you to come back again.

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi   

[emma p]

Ah ! got ya. Thanks.
Don't know about a month Hugo.......more like forever !!! One of these days eh 

Couldnt have said it better myself Hugo.......and yes it is soooo dear to me. 
Now thats bought a tear to my eye !

[jane B]

Thanks to Hugo's detective work I have discovered that William must have been married twice and both wives called Jane! On the 1851 census Jane born 1808 had disappeared, I just assumed she wasn't there at the census taking time. On the 1861 census Jane appears again but the date of birth is differnt this time, 1814.
Looking at the names in the cemetery it looks like William's son Enoch is buried there with his wife Sarah, grave B012. There are other names that might be family but I'd need to look at the book, oh and translate them!
Diolch yn fawr!

[jane B]

Further to my last post about William Roberts the preacher, just noticed there is an entry D020a against Jane and William. He must have both wives in there. Also and I know this is confusing now because there are even more names to go on the tree. William minister had a son Enoch born 1836. I have followed him through and listed his children on a previous post. One of them is William born 1867, his wife was Mary Ellen and they had 2 children in 1901. A daughter called Laur? I looked at the original document, I think it is probably Jane, really tricky writing.Also a son called, guess what? Enoch, born 1900. They lived in Pellws Cottage Llansffraid. Mary Ellen, William and Enoch appear to be in grave number D005.

[Hugo]

Jane, just to clarify something and correct something I wrote earlier.  William and Jane are buried in Plot No D020A and not D020 as I stated.
 It said underneath Plot D020a in English  "This is the original monument" and what it meams, I think is that it is the original grave.
Plot D020 is written in Welsh and I have read it again and I think it is a monument paying tribute to William and Jane and it is not their resting place.
I have got a plan of the graveyard and whatever is at Plot D020 is different to most others.  I'm going to see John soon and John is a Scouser who runs Talgoed Garden Centre about 200 yards from the Cemetery.  I'll take photos of the two plots and post them here asap.