Policing Issues Discussion

[Michael]

North Wales Police have twittered, and been retweeted by andrew steward, all about the recent late night tobacconists breakin. They mention a public spirited man who wants to remain anonomous ---- but --- we all know who the good man was, don't we?

[DaveR]

I noted this bit:

"The offender, a 32-year-old man,  was charged with burglary and other offences and appeared before Llandudno Magistrates Court less than 48 hours later, where he was sentenced to 16 weeks in prison."

So...burglary and assaulting a police officer only gets you 16 weeks in jail? That's very poor, he should have gone down for several years. Business owners and police officers alike need to be protected from these morons and sentences like this are no deterrent.

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/praise_for_man_who_helped.aspx

[Ian]

sentences like this are no deterrent.

Are any? Not if you look at the recidivism statistics.  In fact, jailing people - no matter for how long - doesn't seem to have any sort of beneficial effect, other than to remove them from society for that period.

[DaveR]

... and that's the key point. Society needs to be protected from people like this man. It's his choice to commit criminal acts and it's our right to be protected from them. Therefore, longer prison sentences for people with a continuous history of criminal activity will, if nothing else, give law abiding people a rest from their behaviour.

[Ian]

Society needs to be protected from people like this man.

But does imprisonment lead to long-term protection for society?  Once out, they're ensnared by a past criminal record, unlikely ever to get a decent job and thus become dependent on the state for the remainder of their lives.  In cold terms, we pay for them for as long as they live.  We know prison doesn't work; the probation service, the benefits agencies and social services can all vouch for that simple fact. It doesn't deter, which you were implying is its prime function; it doesn't reform, which surely should be its main aim and it doesn't - either financially or culturally - protect society in the long term.

This isn't a 'leftie' perspective BTW, unless you believe Ken Clarke has converted. He's been saying the same thing for a long time.  Prison doesn't work.

[DaveR]

How would you suggest we deal with dangerous people with no regard for anyone apart from themselves and who constantly inflict misery on other people through burglaries/assaults etc?

[Ian]

In terms of long term protection for society, we need a complete re-think of the jurisprudence system.  What we've got isn't working - simple as that.  And it's costing vast amounts of money. We need a system that deals with the root causes of this sort of behaviour without leaving society to pick up the tab.

[DaveR]

Some people are just born evil, I think it's simple as that. You can't change their nature, sadly.

[CurlyCap]

Society needs to be protected from people like this man.

Prison doesn't work.

The problem is that prison is no deterrant now. There should be no Play Stations, Sky TV and all the other luxuries that they think are their Human Rights. It is supposed to be hardship in prison and time to reflect on their crime !!!!! Not a youth hostel type setup !!!! Prison definitely does not work now and won't until they return them to the dreaded places they should be !!!!!

[Michael]

I AM REALLY STICKING MY NECK OUT HERE.  Our two moderators arguing (discussing) between themselves. Makes good reading, maybe. I agree with one or the other, maybe. But---I'm not going to be brave enough to say which one.

[Fester]

You didn't go on to stick your neck out at all did you Mike?

Anyhow, the fundamental question has not been answered.  It may be true that prison neither reforms or deters crime.
As Curly Cap says, prison doesn't HURT enough, it is not a big enough fear.

So, the question remains, what alternative do people believe will work?

I'm afraid that I would shift even further to the right on this, I believe that humane Capital punishment is most definitely worth introducing.
Ian might say that where it exists in the USA it is not proved to deter crime. 
I would say that when the sentence is carried out, it most certainly cuts the amount of RE-offending!

[Michael]

This is a very serious discussion.

Having said that ---- I cannot help but write this.

Fester, dont you like me?   I post about sticking my neck out --- and you go on about capital punishment!!!  What do the French say  Madame Guilletine

[CurlyCap]

 L0L Glad you've lightened the tone Ormegolf !

I just had to comment earlier (after reading Dave and Ian's debate) as we have a friend who's a prison officer who feels so frustrated with the way that prisons are run. He raises the point that even some of the "cons" want it to be tougher !

[Nemesis]

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/09/15/have-a-go-hero-tackles-llandudno-robber-55243-29422311/

[Pendragon]

does anyone have the link to the north wales police incident board.  I seem to remember it was a link to get up to date on the spot "incidents as it happens" news?? or was I dreaming.