Author Topic: Pen Morfa Cottages  (Read 44362 times)

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Offline rog

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 03:53:08 pm »
Hello Hugo,

Thank you for your kind offer.

The person I am looking for is Walter William JONES. He died 22 January 1871 at Min y Don Llandudno, aged 47. The death certificate was registered 24 January 1871.

The mystery of Min y Don and Pen Morfa was quite an interesting one, wasnt it.  ;D

Kind regards,

Roger

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 04:20:18 pm »
Hi Roger,

The Conwy Archives has closed for stocktaking and won't be open until early Dec. but I'll see what I can find and let you know.
It was really interesting with Min Y Don and Penmorfa Cottages and what a coincidence that my ancestors and yours were neighbours. I did enjoy that and my Nain was a Laundress like yours so they must have been quite close because communities were so different in those days.
I can across some postcards that my Taid had written to my Nain during World Was I  and they were all addressed to 6 Pen Morfa Cottages. My mother used to call them by the same name too,but my Nain was the only one I know that called the cottages by their official name.
 Walter would have seen some incredible changes in the growth of Llandudno and he would have seen Penmorfa getting built and the Marine Drive was not even built in his lifetime
. He may even have seen Alice in Wonderland ( Alice being the daughter of Dean Henry Liddell.)
Best wishes
Hugo


Offline rog

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 07:20:25 am »
Hi Hugo,

Please, only do it whenever you have the time.  $thanx$

Best wishes,

Roger

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 06:50:02 pm »
I remember posting something before about an incident that happened at the National School of St George in Church Walks many years ago.  The building was completed in 1846 and my family and Roger's family would have had children that went to the school.
My mother used to tell me about one of the teachers there who had the nickname of Korky on account of the fact that he had a wooden leg.   Mam used to say that her brother Bobby Sam used to be naughty at times and one day Korky hit him for being naughty. Bobby Sam must have gone home and told his father about it because the next day Taid turned up at the school and chased Korky through the school.  Taid never got hold of him as Korky took refuge in the toilets and refused to come out until Taid left the building, which he did later.
I was thinking about the old times as I was driving to Llandudno today so I thought I'd take some photos for Roger to see.   The building was excellently restored and was Building of the year Joint winner in 2004.
The project was a very good example of what can be achieved after Mostyn Estates disgustingly neglected it for years and at one time were even contemplating having the building demolished!

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2011, 10:50:42 am »
I believe that the little girl in this photo is my cousin Ivy who was aged 8 at the time. She was playing in the gardens of the Penmorfa Cottages and ran into the street to fetch something just as the photo was being taken. It would have been taken in the late 1920's.
 According to my Mother the photo appeared on postcards for a long while after and appears in various books on Llandudno including Jim Roberts' "Llandudno"

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2011, 11:01:18 am »
The sea defence on the West Shore was not completed until 1952 and the sea often came over onto the land. My Mother would often talk about how the sea would come over and go very far down Gloddaeth Avenue and you can see how bad it was by this 1924 photo taken near the old tram terminal.
The cottages at Penmorfa were not affected as they were on slightly higher ground.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 11:40:22 am »
Hi Roger, I was in the Archives this week and had a look at all the Burial books but still couldn't find a record for Walter William Jones. If my memory serves me right I think that you mentioned that Walter was a Wesleyan but he should have been buried in one of the local graves.
The Welsh Wesleyan Chapel of Caersalem was erected in 1837 and was probably the place where he worshipped in Llandudno. The building was later converted into Dr Roberts' Grammar School and has a plaque over a blocked up doorway  that states that the Right Honourable William Morris Hughes, Premier of Australia 1916-23 was educated in this building.
It's situated on the corner of Cwlach Street and Llwynonn Gardens.
I'll keep on looking because there are some records on microfilm too.

Offline Micox

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2011, 06:04:57 pm »
Hello Barbiroli. Six months late, but the answer to your question is yes. Sara was/is a most beautiful singer and a beautiful woman. I rate her jazz singing as amongst the best I've ever heard. She used to sing with us when we had jam sessions in the North Western, St Georges (I think), Washington and Imperial - Glyn Dryhurst, Glyn Lewis, Norman (1066) Fields, self, etc. Sara then sang with our band Rhythm Machine when we were resident at the Stage Door on the Pier (1975 and 6). Friend Martin Peel tells me she now lives Llandulas way. Megan Jones, Sara's mother was a lovely person (still is as far as I know) and was a regular at the Navy Club.

Heddwch.

Mike. 
Micox

Offline Barbiroli

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 12:38:13 pm »
Thanks Micox, I was`nt sure if i had the right person.

Offline rog

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 07:37:04 pm »
Hi Roger, I was in the Archives this week and had a look at all the Burial books but still couldn't find a record for Walter William Jones. If my memory serves me right I think that you mentioned that Walter was a Wesleyan but he should have been buried in one of the local graves.
The Welsh Wesleyan Chapel of Caersalem was erected in 1837 and was probably the place where he worshipped in Llandudno. The building was later converted into Dr Roberts' Grammar School and has a plaque over a blocked up doorway  that states that the Right Honourable William Morris Hughes, Premier of Australia 1916-23 was educated in this building.
It's situated on the corner of Cwlach Street and Llwynonn Gardens.
I'll keep on looking because there are some records on microfilm too.

Thank you, Hugo. Walter was a Wesleyan.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2011, 05:01:58 pm »
Caersalem Chapel as it is today. I went to the Archives again but still couldn't trace the location of the grave.  If Walter William Jones died in Llandudno in 1871, then he should buried in the graveyard nearest the old Church of St Tudno.
It's a fairly small graveyard compared to the Civil Cemetery there but the wind was howling in Llandudno so I never went up there to have a quick look.
I'll have a look when the weather improves.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2011, 08:02:01 pm »
Times were very hard in those days at Penmorfa Cottages but I never heard my mother complain once about her childhood there.  When Walter William Jones was alive Miriam Yr Ogof was still living in her cave and he would have known her well as he was one of her nearest neighbours.
My Taid and Nain moved to Penmorfa Cottages in 1906 and Miriam was still alive but living in Gogarth Tea Rooms which was situated at the junction of the Marine Drive and Pen Y Ffordd Goch. They would have also known Miriam as communities in those days were a lot closer.
They didn't have any money but were still happy and supplemented their food with wild rabbits and fish which they used to catch. My Uncle Bobby Sam would often bring home fish and Conger Eels to help the family out.
In those days around the early 1900's pedestrians had to pay a tole to walk along the Marine Drive but my Taid wouldn't have been able to afford even the  1d  tole money so he went along the ancient Monks footpath (sometimes called Cust's Path) to Ffynnon Llygaid (eye well) where he used to bathe his eyes in the spring water. Taid reckoned that his eyesight was prefect because of this regular bathing but I obviously haven't inherited his good eyesight.

Offline Blodyn

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 09:08:11 pm »
Hugo, I'm afraid that looking around St. Tudno's churchyard won't help to locate Walter William Jones' grave.  Our only record of grave locations is the book listing inscriptions which you'll have looked at in the Archives.  Unfortunately it doesn't show all the graves as it was compiled in the 1980s by the Gwynedd Family History Society, using the inscriptions on the tombstones.  So, if a grave did not have a stone with a legible inscription there is no indication of whose grave it is.  For instance, a few of the graves are marked with just an outline of rough stones, while in some areas there are no grave markers visible at all. 

I agree that Walter William Jones would be expected to have been buried at St. Tudno's.  After Christmas I'll try to find out if there's any information on him in the parish Burial Records. 

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2011, 11:13:13 am »
Thanks very much for that Blodyn, it'll save me a few wet and windy hours looking for the grave in St Tudno's Churchyard.
I understand what you are saying about the Gwynedd Family History Society but the Church or someone should have the original record of the graves and who is buried where.
Do you have any idea where the original records are as they must be somewhere?

Offline Hugo

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Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2011, 12:29:22 pm »
I was looking at the Census records for 1861 and 1871 today and found out some information from them.

The Dean Henry Liddell was listed in the 1861 Census with his wife Sorina D and Alice P who was aged 8.  Penmorfa wasn't completed until the following year so they were living at Tudno Villa.    I found his name under Siddell but that was probably due to a copying error, but his wife was listed under Diddell which is even worse!

Min y Don Cottages are listed there but I can see no sign of Roger's relative in the 1861 Census and couldn't find anything for him in the 1871 Census but Walter William Jones may have died by then.

On the previous page was listed Isaac Jones ( Yr Ogof ) and his address was given as "cave by Gogarth"    Strangely enough Miriam and any of their many children were not listed in the 1861 Census.