Miriam and Isaac Jones ( Yr Ogof)

[Hugo]

By coincidence I was at the Pink Farm ( Penymynydd Isaf ) today with a friend whose ancestors were the Owen family of the 1800's.
It did indeed serve alcohol on the premises and my friend claimed to have an old photo of the "bar" there,  I'll try and get a copy of it and post it on here.
It's the Isaf Farm that is the Pink Farm and we were looking at the Pink Farm sign which is near the front garden gate   The name Penymynydd Isaf couldn't be seen there
Strangely enough, in the rent book of the Gloddaeth Estate in the 1800's both farms are just called Pen y mynydd.

[Helig]

There is an entry for William Owen in the Probate Registry. He is shown as being of Penymynydd and a Farmer. He died on 28 April 1894 and probate was granted to Mary Anne Jones (wife of Edwin Jones) and Jane Roberts (wife of Robert Roberts). Effects: ?765 16s 6d.

In the 1871 census William Owen is still living in Penymynydd Isa and the household is as follows:

William Owen age 65 Farmer
Elizabeth Owen age 61
Mary A Owen daughter age 27
Jane Owen daughter age 19
Edwin Jones servant age 24
Robert Jones servant age 18.

All born Llandudno.

William Owen is still living there in the 1891 census. His wife has predeceased him. In this the next place along is The Old Rectory. This takes me back to the Old Rectory Tea Gardens which I loved to visit years ago.

[Hugo]

I hope that the first two photos bring back some nice memories for you Helig.       I was at the Pink Farm on Saturday with a friend whose ancestors were the Owen Family.
The Old Rectory is the next neighbour to Penymynyss Isaf as you head north.  I bet that you went on the public footpath past Ffynnon Powell to get to the Old Rectory.
The third photo is how the Old Rectory looks now unfortunately

[AJ]

Thank you both for all your work,  have found John Jone's death certificate and I'm going to Llandudno to pick it up tomorrow, fingers crossed there may be more evidence.  I am hoping to go to Conwy next week to look at Dolgarrog records.

[Helig]

Thank you for those photos Hugo. I loved to visit the tea gardens and remember going there as young as about 3 years of age. I won't say what year that would have been. I think they had donkeys in one of the fields as I used to like to stroke them and I think I fed them too. Is it still owned by the doctor who bought it when the tea gardens closed down?

[Hugo]

Nothing wrong with your memory Helig because there were certainly Donkeys in that field.   There's also a public footpath that goes through that field and it joins up with the the zig zag road
I don't know who owns it now though

[Hugo]

Thank you both for all your work,  have found John Jone's death certificate and I'm going to Llandudno to pick it up tomorrow, fingers crossed there may be more evidence.  I am hoping to go to Conwy next week to look at Dolgarrog records.

Good luck in the Archives AJ,  The staff there are very helpful and there's a lot of info held there which may be useful for you

[Helig]

Just a thought but most archives offer a service for their assistants to do research for people. I don't know if this is available in Conwy but most places have it. There is a charge but some do a certain amount , say one hour, without a charge. It may be worth enquiring.

[Hugo]

I think that the Conwy Archives do a service like you have described Helig but I don't know the details.   

[AJ]

Evening Helig and Hugo
Picked up death certificate, as you said, no date of birth.
Spent the day in Conwy Archives
Went through Dolgarrog Aluminium records - employment records only go as far back as 1924, no meeting minutes
I went therough the LLandudno Cottage Hospital records however 1916- 1923 are missing
Accessed all the family tree website to try and find birth certificates, no luck
I'm now going to contact BCUHB to see if I can Access my hen Taid's medical records as the archivist thinks they should have been kept somewhere, it could have his birth on that.
Also going to contact coroner's office to see if i can access full report in case birth on that.
I did find Miriam Ogof's obituary, died July 1910 it said that she was 78 and not as reported in some newspapers as 92.  She died at home, It also said she came from Gyffin

[Helig]

I am sorry that your trip to the archives proved to be a waste of time, AJ. I don't think they keep medical records for very long these days but you might be lucky..

Miriam Owens is proving to be difficult to track back to her baptism. The census returns give differing ages and places of birth for her.

1841, age 10, born in same county. (Living in Gyffin).
1851, age 21, born in Llangelynin. (Living in Gyffin).
1861, age 30, born Llangelynin (living in Bodidda).
1871, age 38, born Llangelynin. Married to Isaac and living in Llandudno.
1881. age 50, born Llanelian, Denbighshire.
1891, age 66, born Llangelynin.
1901, age 79, born Carnarvon, Conwy.

Death in September 1910 and her age recorded as 77 years.

In the 1841 census she is living in the household of Elinor Hughes, age 50, Elinor Owenes age 10 and Elisabeth Owenes age 7.

[Hugo]

I was looking at the Baptism records for another forum member some years ago.     It was the Gyffin Register and about the same period as Miriam so they should have Miriam's record there
They may also have the records for Robert Jones at Rowen and Elizabeth Williams at Llandudno

I'll try and go to the Archives next week if I can and will post something on here

[Helig]

I hope you have some success Hugo.

For reasons best known to itself Ancestry has thrown up another entry for Miriam Owen in the 1851 census. This is one I haven't seen before and looks very interesting. The household is:

John Owen, head, age 34, married, Fowl Dealer, born Dwygyfylchi
Jane Owen, wife, age 33, born Pentrefoelas, Denbighshire.
Keturah Owen, daughter, age 5, born Gyffin
Jeremiah Owen, son, age under 11 months, born Gyffin
Miriam Owen, sister, unmarried, age 20, general servant, born Gyffin.

They are all stated to be living in Gyffin village in the same household.

One reason I say this is interesting is that in a later census in 1861, Miriam Owen states she is a Fowl Dealer.

In the 1861 census John Owen and family (plus numerous servants) are living in 7 Mostyn St, Llandudno. John Owen is a grocer.

In the 1871 census John Owen and family are living in 8 Mostyn St and John is now a Game Dealer.

There is a baptism for John Owen in Dwygyfylchi on 10th March 1816 (born 27th February). He was the son of William Owen and Eleanor Hughes, abode: Pentre Felin. William Owen was a Blacksmith.

This fits with Miriam's father being William Owen, Blacksmith, per the marriage certificate. Also, in the 1841 census, Miriam is living with Elinor Owen who was her mother by the look of it.

I note the names of the children of John and Eleanor are very similar to those of Isaac Jones and Miriam.

For the first time a Family Tree has appeared for Miriam Owens. This states she was the daughter of William Owens bLiverpool (c1791-1877) and Eleanor Hughes (c1791-). Miriam is shown to have been born/baptised on 1 August 1830 in Llangelynin. The tree belongs to David Smith. There are a number of photos with this tree.

To be continued...

[Hugo]

That is a very interesting find indeed Helig and Miriam's age fits in with the age that AJ found.     That puts Miriam's age at about 30 when she married Isaac so she may have had all those children that she was  claimed to have had.
Now with both Robert and Elizabeth being born around 1853 (ish) Miriam must have been the Nain of John and not a G Nain.    I have found a couple of possibilities for Robert but need to check some records before posting them on here
Cambrian is the expert on Parishes etc and Robert who was born in Rowen his  records could be under Caerhun, Llangelynin or even Gyffin so we'll have to see that info I can get from the Archives

[AJ]

Thank you both. 
I am hoping to get to the archives again next week but have a lot on, the activists were so helpful, they were brilliant. 
I am hoping if i can get the coroner's report i may get a birth, then find a birth certificate which will confirm mother.