Points to Ponder

[Fester]

The link is to a BBC news item, which details the court case in which Arthur Scargill claims he still wants the almost bankrupt NUM to continue paying for his apartment in London for the rest of his life.

It costs the NUM £34,000 rent, plus other costs.
The NUM still pay the expenses on his other house in Barnsley. (plus extra for his personal security)

Some Socialist eh?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19806014

[DaveR]

Hypocrisy is the hallmark of any good Socialist. Fighting for the workers, but living in luxury as they do so..

[Ian]

Hypocrisy is the hallmark of any good Socialist. Fighting for the workers, but living in luxury as they do so..

So you're saying that all good socalists should live in poverty?

[DaveR]

It would give their views far more credence, I'd have thought. In the case of Scargill, talking about the 'workers' struggle' whilst having two luxury homes paid for by said workers struggling to earn a living does come across as a tad hypocritical, surely?

[Ian]

It would give their views far more credence, I'd have thought. In the case of Scargill, talking about the 'workers' struggle' whilst having two luxury homes paid for by said workers struggling to earn a living does come across as a tad hypocritical, surely?

The approach taken by the major unions towards their presidents has always been one that believes they should pay their presidents appropriately for the job and in the way that they believe all workers ought to be remunerated.  It could be seen as  more hypocritical to pay their key workers a pittance, while arguing in favour of significant pay increases for their members.

It's easy to knock those who dedicate their lives to raising the living standards for the working population; but unions play a vital role in the protection of their members against the treatment they could receive at the hands of unscrupulous employers and - in some cases today - still do.  Scargill is perhaps not the best example, as he made the fight for his workers far too political, in my view. But it's a demonstrably simple fact that - at the start of the 20th Century - working conditions were abysmal for the majority, while the employers simply grew richer and  more selfish on the backs of their workers' output.  Mining in particular was a lethal industry, so it's perhaps easier to see why militancy among that group was always strong.
 

[DaveR]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. The point was that Scargill, who hasn't been President of the NUM for 10 years, is determined to hang onto all his luxury perks in spite of spouting ever more extreme nonsense:

Scargill has become more politically outspoken since stepping down from the NUM presidency, he is a Communist sympathiser[16] and has gone on record as a supporter of Joseph Stalin, saying that the "ideas of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin" explain the "real world": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Scargill

[Ian]

Well, as I said, Scargill is not the best example.  And it's certainly true that over the years certain fringe organisations, like Militant Tendency, attracted opportunist con-men who - far from improving the lot of the average person - went on to wreak immense damage, coupled with  vitriolic abuse of anyone who dared oppose them.  However, my point is that you cannot reasonably stereotype trade unionists in the way you did  "Hypocrisy is the hallmark of any good Socialist. " unless you subscribe to an incredibly narrow definition of the word "Socialist".  I believe the good done by the trades union movement in general far outweighs the bad.

[Yorkie]

Is it not the Trades Union who effectively destroyed our ship building industry?   Demarcation required 7 trades to fit a porthole!  That was just a small part of the problem.

I was connected with the building industry supplying and servicing the large Tower cranes that were the centre of production on any building site.   We also supplied craneage for the construction of many of the power stations in the country.   None of my erectors, electricians or service personell were union members or had any need to join as they were well looked after and extremely well paid for the dangerous work they did.   The union bosses on one power station site decided my men should receive "boot" money and "height" money or they would not be allowed on site!   For the next week they did work on other jobs we had and construction at the power station came to a dead stop.

I received calls from the Managing Director of the main construction companies involved who then negotiated with their workers and the Unions.   Result, even to the day I left the company my men never joined a union and were allowed without hindrance on every site they worked.

As far as I am concern the likes of Mr Scargill helped to ruin the industrial base on this once great manufacturing country.
 

[Kowalski]

Hear, hear, there's no point standing up together to solve anything, or protecting people. Let's just let the bosses and assorted rich people run society for their own ends. That'll learn us.

Personally, at the end of the day I think we should go further. There should be a black list of construction workers that refuse to kowtow to the rich bosses and their chauffeurs. (Whaddya mean there already is one? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/29/nick-cohen-construction-workers-blacklist] [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/29/nick-cohen-construction-workers-blacklist [/url])

Vote for your local Tory, they'll sort it!!! I see a new election slogan!! "As long as the crane operators of Britain are ok Jack then everything's fine!!!"

[Ian]

If you're of an age to remember the film "Exodus", you'll remember the theme  which was altogether a rather schmaltzy song. This short cartoon is extremely well worth watching:

http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/

This link

This Land Is Mine on Vimeo

allows a full-screen image.

[Fester]

In my younger years, I was required to visit Japan for business reasons on two occasions.

I was always struck by how it was known as 'The Land of the Rising Sun', and I always accepted this without question.

However, I have since realised that the sun rises in every country of the world, just at different times of the day.

It begs the question, what other phrases do we simply accept as true, that in essence are nonsense?

[Ian]

As you're clearly of a religious bent, F, how about 'Separate the sheep from the goats?'.   :twoface: :twoface: :twoface:

[Fester]

Indeed, our traditions are littered with such strange and contradictory statements.

Ian, I have never actually heard of the one you mentioned, but what about;

''Absence makes the heart grow fonder''
How do we receoncile that with... 'out of sight, out of mind''?

[mull]

Just picked up on this on the "For Argyll" site.

Certain rural areas in Argyll have been having problems with their BT service.

After BT appealed to Ofcom these areas have been declared "beyond their control" allowing them to abandon servicing the area even though they have had a telephone service for many years.

Watch this excuse does not spread to their service in remoter areas in Wales.   

[Fester]

Today I decided to challenge the old adage that 'You Can't have your Cake and Eat it'
Successfully as it turns out.

I made my way to the very excellent Conwy Bakery and purchased TWO cakes.

I proceeded to EAT one, and I still HAVE the other.

Therefore I can safely say, without fear of contradiction, you can indeed have your cake and eat it.