Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno

[Hugo]

Hi Jeff,  I went to the Conwy Archives this afternoon but couldn't find much info but this is what I found:-

I wanted to start from the 1890's and work forward but couldn't find Hugh and Kate in the 1891 Census records

I then looked at the Burial Indexes but there was no entry for Hugh and Kate Roberts in either the Llandudno Parish or the Eglwysrhos  (Llanrhos) Parish
However there was an entry for a Hugh and Catherine Roberts of Wyddfyd Terrace  (that's on the Great Orme)       The inscription on the headstone is in Welsh and is translated as follows:-
Hugh Roberts died 14th January 1896 aged 28
Catherine Roberts died April 1996  aged 28
Could  Catherine be your Kate?     Anyway Hugh and Catherine are buried together at St Tudno's Church on the Great Orme   Grave no G174

I had a look at the Street Index and Pembroke Villa in New Street has been demolished at sometime, it was there in the 1911 Street Index and was on the north side of the street behind where the Winter Gardens Ballroom and the Odean Cinema once was.
Did you get the address from a Census record?

I looked at the Baptism records for Ethel Katie and Robert but there were no entries for them in the Llandudno Parish Baptism Register.
The records I looked at covered up to 1894 but it could be that they were never Baptised or that they are in the next Register for 1895 onwards or even in the Llanrhos Parish Register.
Llandudno in those days was covered by two Parishes, Llandudno and Eglwysrhos and the boundary was roughly down the centre of the town.

I then had a look at the Llandudno Parish Wedding Banns Register and there was no entry in 1917 or in 1926 for Robert Roberts and Elizabeth Jones.      It may be that the Banns for their marriage were heard in the bride's home Parish, do you know where that was?

[Jeff]

Hi Hugo----On the 1891 census Hugh and Kate are living with her father William Jones at 1 Pembroke Villas New Street district 13, Llandudno. With her name's Catherine or Kate, on her's and Hugh death cert; and there daughter birth cert; she is down as Kate. The marriage date is 1890 Sept quarter Conwy Civil Marriage Reg Cnwy/11/69  11B 645 Hugh Roberts and Kate Jones. The dates you have for there death is correct both 1896 . The address came from grandmothers birth cert and it matches the 1891 census . At this time I do not know if she was Bapt; the birth cert; says born 29 June 1891 registered 28 July 1891 sub-district Creuddyn Reg;-District Conway .
 Which  Elizabeth Jones it was is a bit of a guess, The one I am looking at is taken of the 1901 census Elizabeth that has father William mother Margaret and brother Henry they are living at Trefriw district 9
 All the best Jeff

[Hugo]

Thanks Jeff,  it would appear that Hugh and Kate (Catherine) moved after the 1891 Census to Wyddfyd Terrace on the Great Orme.

Now both New Street and Wyddfyd Terrace were in the old Parish of Llandudno, so if there has been a Baptism then it should be in the Llandudno Parish Register.  I will need to look at the Register for 1895 onwards to see if there is an entry there Katie and Robert.

When you are looking up records it is a help to know where the person was born or any address that they had lived at as it narrows the search down

You mentioned that the Elizabeth you found lived in Trefriw, now that could explain why I couldn't find the record of the Wedding Banns in the Llandudno Parish Register.
They must have been called in the bride's home parish of Trefriw and if that is the case then those records will also be in the Conwy Archives

What makes you think that the couple when married were living in the Llandudno area and do you have an address there?   

[Jeff]

No I do not have an address the only one is of the 1939 register , only reason I say that they may be in Llandudno is all the information before 1901 say so. As I can not find Robert on the 1911 census it doe's not help us. There is only one or two that are not sons but doe's not help
The two sons William Roberts mother Jones   Conway  11b   676 and     Eric R J Roberts mother Jones    Jones    Conway    11b   616
 Jeff

[Hugo]

Thanks Jeff, that address in the 1939 Register doesn't help me here in Llandudno but what I can do is:

Look in the Baptism Register for Llandudno Parish from 1895 onwards as it would be nice to see if  Katie and Robert were Baptised there

I'll also look in the Baptism Register for 1917 onwards just in case they were living in Llandudno between 1917 and 1939.    Your information about William and Eric R J Roberts would indicate that Robert and Elizabeth did live in the Conway Registration District after the marriage

The Street Index is helpful too and one person per household is listed in it alphabetically so it's easy to find where they lived at that time.   I was thinking of Eric R J Roberts and will look in the 1960's index to see if he is listed there.

I hope to go there tomorrow all being well and will post any findings on here

[Jeff]

Hi Hugo
 Not that it helps us alot but Eric Roberts born 6 Sept; 1931 died in Bangor Jan 2000

[Hugo]

Thanks Jeff for telling me about Eric Roberts who died in Bangor in 2000

I've been to the Archives again and drawn a complete blank but these are the records I looked at:-

Llandudno Parish Baptism record  1894 to 1908     no trace
      "           "          "          "        1917 to 1933    no trace
St Mary's Church in Trefriw  Marriage Register        no trace
 
Now there are a number of reasons why I have had no luck tracing Robert and Elizabeth such as they never lived in Llandudno during their marriage or the children were Baptised in a Chapel and those records are unfortunately not available.

The births of the children were registered in the Conway Registration District but that District covers many towns, villages and Parishes but unless you have any address it's like looking for a needle in a haystack and at the moment there is nothing more I can do to help.

You have obviously done lots of research on the family and you are hoping to find living relatives of the Roberts family.  From what you have said already I assume that the family has more connection with Gwynedd than Conwy.     What I would do if I was you would be to concentrate on Eric R J Roberts and you might get some clues from the newspapers at the time.
The newspapers would be the North Wales Chronicle based in Bangor, the North Wales edition of the Daily Post or possibly the North Wales Weekly News
The Crematorium at Bangor have been very helpful to me in the past when I've been searching for graves in that area and the link to their website is   https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/en/Residents/Births-marriages-deaths/Deaths-cemeteries-crematorium/Crematorium-and-cemeteries.aspx

The Archive dealing with that area is  the Gwynedd Archives in Caernarfon but if you come up with an address in the Conwy area then please post it on here.

[Jeff]

Thank's Hugo
 For all the time and effort you have put in.
I will send away for the marriage of Robert and Elizabeth 1917 and try and make the point that the father of Robert was Hugh so not to get back the wrong one.
The way I am thinking that cert; should tell me where she was living at that time and his address.
 Will get back hopefully when it come's
 Thank's again all the best
    Jeff

[Hugo]

It can be so frustrating looking for records but I am surprised that there was no Baptism records in Llandudno for Katie and Robert as the Baptisms were carried out in most cases and were soon after the birth of the child.

You might never be able to find out why the children were put into care as they had a number of Uncles and Aunts on both sides and in those days families took care of things like that.     Just as a matter of interest you have seen the Census for 1891 and I was wondering where Hugh and Catherine and Catherine's father were born as sometimes it gives you an idea of their background

If you do find out any address in the Conwy County area then I'll gladly have a look at any records at the Archives

[Jeff]

 Hugh father was Robert born abt 1839 in Llangefni and Kate's was William born 1826 in Great Ness. On the 1891 census they are on the same page William living at Pembroke Villas and Robert living at  Belle- Vue villas Gloddeath St.   Both fathers death are hard to be certain Robert died abt 1900 Conway and William Jones died in the june  quarter of 1908 Carnarvon
 On the 1901 census   William and his wife Elizabeth (nee Vaughan) where living at 17 Council St civil parish of Eglwys Rhos
 Jeff

[Hugo]

Thanks Jeff for that info, does the 1991 Census show where Hugh and Kate were born as it may be helpful to identify where Robert was living prior to going to Caernarfon?

[Jeff]

 The 1891 census have Hugh born in Llangefni, Anglesey but I was given 15 Oct 1867 in Tyntwca, Llangristiolus with Kate 21 Jan 1868 Bell Mont Bangor same as the census.

[Hugo]

Thanks Jeff for that latest info but it doesn't give any clues as to exactly where Robert's children were born in the Conwy Registration District.

It does however give a strong connection to Anglesey and Gwynedd.      Llangefni is a town in Anglesey but it is also a Parish and Llangristiolus which isn't that far from Llangefni and could be in the Parish of Llangefni so they could both be correct and it's the same place.

I'm only guessing here but Eric who you think lived in Caernarfon and died in Bangor in 2000 may have still lived in Caernarfon but died in the big base hospital at Bangor,   Ysbyty Gwynedd as it's called.

I still think that your best bet if you want to contact present day relatives is to find the obituary notice in the paper as it may have an address and names of relatives but it will have the name of the Funeral Director who will know for certain the address of the deceased.
Another source as I've mentioned before is the Bangor Crematorium and I've found them to be very helpful indeed.
Good luck with your searching and I hope that you can find the answers that you are looking for but please let us know how you get on

[Hugo]

I was looking for Tyntwca Llangristiolus on Google and came across this item but I think that you have already seen it but just in case you haven't  I've posted the link below



https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=seorecords&gsfn=Ellen&gsln=Roberts&msbdy=1884&msbpn__ftp=Madison%2C+Florida%2C+USA&msddy=1900&msdpn__ftp=Johns+Island%2C+Indian+River%2C+Florida%2C+USA&cpxt=0&catBucket=p&uidh=000&cp=0

[Jeff]

Which Ellen am I looking at?