Author Topic: European Union Vote  (Read 145066 times)

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Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #315 on: July 05, 2016, 07:44:29 am »
Is that a serious question?  _))* _))* _))* They all knew perfectly well it was a lie. They knew that it was almost certainly going to be the votes of the less well informed that swung the election, which is why Farage produced that infamous and widely condemned poster of the immigrants queuing. He used a classic fear tactic, with no evidential basis.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline born2run

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #316 on: July 05, 2016, 09:17:04 am »
Is that a serious question?  _))* _))* _))* They all knew perfectly well it was a lie. They knew that it was almost certainly going to be the votes of the less well informed that swung the election, which is why Farage produced that infamous and widely condemned poster of the immigrants queuing. He used a classic fear tactic, with no evidential basis.

"Less well informed"

 _))*


Offline Bosun

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #317 on: July 05, 2016, 10:59:59 am »
Is that a serious question?  _))* _))* _))* They all knew perfectly well it was a lie. They knew that it was almost certainly going to be the votes of the less well informed that swung the election, which is why Farage produced that infamous and widely condemned poster of the immigrants queuing. He used a classic fear tactic, with no evidential basis.

Yes, it was a serious question, out of sheer incredulity that it actually happened. The verdict of the referendum is so desperately important to this country that it should be put on hold and the conduct of those involved in the campaign, (especially by those receiving government funding) should be the subject to some form of a Public Enquiry, and if it was found that the misinformation swayed voting decisions to a degree larger than the winning margin, the referendum should be re-run. The costs of which should be borne by those found to have lied and they should be barred from public office.

I think that you may have gathered that I'm furious about it......
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #318 on: July 05, 2016, 12:08:25 pm »
Wales would now vote to REMAIN in the European Union, says new poll.

Wales would vote to Remain by a majority of 53% to 47%, excluding don’t knows, according to research undertaken by YouGov for ITV Wales and Cardiff University.

Welsh voters were split in favour of Leave by 52.5% to 47.5% in last month’s referendum.

Professor Roger Scully, of Cardiff University’s Wales Governance Centre, said: “In short, there is not much overall change.
"But that which has occurred is in the direction of growing support for the idea of the UK remaining in the EU – roughly a six percentage point swing in this direction since the referendum.

More and Poll.............. http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wales-would-now-vote-remain-11567780#

Offline born2run

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #319 on: July 05, 2016, 12:45:51 pm »
Charlotte Chhurch 'slammed' U kipper Nigel Farage in a tweet here are some of the most popular DFM comments about this

"It seems the Welsh are collectively a great deal more intelligent that this fat windbag. She would rather vote for anarchy which is the other side of democracy.

Would she take her kids for an afternoon out at a German or Swedish swimming pool?

Churchy have you donated your millions to the refugees you claim to support? She's thicker than her waistline.

Silly washed-up mare. if you love the place so much, just move there, you`ve got the money even if the talent has long, long gone.

Nigel Farage is a patriot who has done huis country a great service. Church on the other hand... fill in your own description.

Silly little girl. We dont want YOU in Wales. Pack up and ship out.

ya mean little fat girl she has been at the pies again

that's not Charlotte Church, it looks like she's eaten Charlotte church!!! shall i tell you how easy it would be to get her into bed? PIECE OF CAKE!!!

More brains in a cow."

Sometimes I despair at this country and the people in it.  :'(

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #320 on: July 05, 2016, 01:51:32 pm »
I've always despaired of the DFM...
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #321 on: July 06, 2016, 08:55:29 am »
Ultimately, the vote to leave the EU occurred because attempts to reform the EU (notably led by the UK) failed. Cameron went off to Brussels recently to negotiate a package of reforms and came back with pretty much nothing.

As Tony Benn once said..."When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious that what they had in mind was not democratic. I mean, in Britain you vote for the government and therefore the government has to listen to you, and if you don’t like it you can change it. But in Europe all the key positions are appointed, not elected – the Commission, for example. All appointed, not one of them elected.".

 Even the head of the liberal group in the EU parliament, former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, lambasted the European Council, the forum where EU governments decide policy. He said the Council's reaction to Brexit was "we shouldn't change anything, just implement existing European policies". "I find this shocking and irresponsible," he said angrily. There had been warning signs for the EU from previous referendums in Denmark and the Netherlands, he said. "What are you waiting for? When will the Council recognise that this type of EU - you cannot defend it any more. Europe needs to be reformed... European citizens are not against Europe, they're against this Europe."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36712550
https://semipartisansam.com/2016/03/03/tony-benn-and-the-left-wing-case-for-brexit/

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #322 on: July 06, 2016, 09:04:04 am »
There's no doubt the EU has huge issues and, in fact, I think it's developed far too rapidly. The vote in the UK might ignite an EU-wide impetus towards change, which would be wonderful, were we to remain part of it and benefit from a dramatically restructured institution.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #323 on: July 06, 2016, 09:39:08 am »
There's no doubt the EU has huge issues and, in fact, I think it's developed far too rapidly. The vote in the UK might ignite an EU-wide impetus towards change, which would be wonderful, were we to remain part of it and benefit from a dramatically restructured institution.
You're sort of missing the point, Ian. I believe the reason the LEAVE vote was successful was purely because successive attempts by various countries to reform the EU have got nowhere. The fact that you believe it will take the UK leaving the EU to bring about any real change only illustrates that very point.

Offline Ian

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #324 on: July 06, 2016, 10:49:37 am »
Well, I don't think I said 'believe' anywhere at all, merely 'might', which differs not only in meaning but in intent. The Leave vote was successful for several reasons, almost none of which has anything whatsoever to do with previous attempts at reform. Detailed exit polls suggest the vote split on Educational and age grounds, in fact, and detailed reasons given tended to focus on immigration, which Farage in particular played on with that appalling poster.

But New Scientist did an interesting article:

 "By Simon Oxenham

To many, the rise of Donald Trump in the US and the UK’s vote to leave the European Union have come as a shock. It is feared that right-wing movements may now rise across Europe, including Marine Le Pen’s Front National in France. Why is the face of global politics changing so quickly, and could we have predicted this rightwards shift?

Some studies suggest so. Over a period of nearly 150 years, we have seen that every financial crisis was followed by a 10-year surge in support for far right populist parties, as shown by a recent analysis of more than 800 elections by German economists. Interestingly, they did not see the same right-shift reaction in response to recessions or macroeconomic shocks that formed part of the normal cycle of economic rises and falls and weren’t explicitly sparked by a financial crash. The UK is now eight years on since its last financial crisis – although it should be returning to pre-2008 levels of far-right support around about now.
Bad decisions

Public-health researcher Christopher Simms of Dalhousie University in Halifax, Canada, argued last month that when people are anxious, not only do they fail to make good decisions, but they also seem to make particularly bad ones. He cited recent research showing that anxiety suppresses neurons in the pre-frontal cortex region of the brain, which is involved in decision-making.

This may help to explain a lot of what is happening in the world right now. The Global Risks Report 2016 details a worldwide rise in catastrophic events, ranging from involuntary migration to natural disasters. When such crises occur, people look for someone to blame, and often immigration and minorities become an easy scapegoat for a problem that is far less visible in origin – as is the case with financial crises.

Immigration itself has been shown to have an effect on right-wing views – but not in the direction you might expect. The two show a negative correlation: in the places where immigration is the highest, support for right-wing parties is lowest. For example, it has been shown that it is the perception of immigration levels in a local area, rather than the actual change in numbers, that is linked to votes for UKIP.

This effect may be explained by the contact hypothesis – the theory that, in the words of psychologist Thomas Pettigrew at the University of California, Santa Cruz, “all that’s needed for greater understanding between groups is contact”. Pettigrew has authored a meta-analysis of more than 500 studies on this subject.
Emotion and autonomy

Never before in history has so much deception been unmasked so quickly and with so little shame,” says Stephan Lewandowsky, a researcher on misinformation at Bristol University in the UK, in regards to the UK’s referendum on membership of the EU.

Campaigns to leave the EU ultimately depended on stoking fears of migrants, echoing Donald Trump’s campaign in the US. What has made these fear campaigns so effective?

According to the influential behavioural economist Daniel Kahneman of Princeton University, the leave campaigns used arguments that were based on emotion rather than rational analysis – a triumph of System 1 over System 2 thinking, as described in his book Thinking, Fast and Slow.

Another psychological explanation is that the leave campaigns capitalised on a person’s fundamental need for autonomy, says psychologist Paul Redford of the University of the West of England in Bristol, UK. Leave voters typically have less wealth and power, so their vote to leave the EU may have been an attempt to increase their scope for self-determination.
Showing support

Since the referendum result, the National Police Chief’s Council has reported a rise in reports of hate crime in the UK. In the week following the vote, an online reporting site received 331 reports of hate crime, a fivefold increase from the weekly average of 63.

A wealth of psychological research into conformity has shown that this could be a dangerous situation. A widely replicated study in 1955 by Solomon Asch showed that when people were asked to judge whether lines of the same size were really the same length, most people could be led to profess the belief that the lines were actually different lengths. All it took to persuade people was having a group of actors all say that the lines were of different lengths. The study shows how easily people can be pushed to change their views to match those of the people around them.

In the wake of the rise in hate-crime reporting, a viral campaign has sprung up to express opposition to racism. By wearing a safety pin attached to their lapels, some people are hoping to express their support for the people in the UK who are now feeling victimised or under threat. Clinical psychologist Miriam Silver says that showing solidarity in such a way, and connecting with those who are experiencing hostility, are small steps that people can take to support those under threat.

As for media reports of “Bregret” – leave voters who now regret their choice – Kahneman has argued that most won’t regret their decision, because regret is rare. Instead, people find ways to explain what is happening around them that lay the blame with someone else."
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #325 on: July 06, 2016, 11:49:42 am »
 &shake&                &shake&

Pound at a new 31-year low against the US dollar.
The pound remained in post-Brexit freefall as it tumbled to a fresh 31-year low against the US dollar amid mounting fears over the impact of the vote to leave the EU.

Sterling slumped below $1.28 at one stage, more than 15% below levels seen on referendum day, while it also dropped against the euro, falling 1% below Tuesday's closing figure to €1.16, its lowest level since 2013.

Concerns over a Brexit hit to the UK's property sector saw housebuilding shares remain deep in the red on the London market, although the FTSE 100 Index lifted 24.3 points to 6570.3
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/pound-new-31-year-low-11573937

Offline Bosun

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #326 on: July 06, 2016, 03:26:07 pm »
I wonder how many people like us, UK born citizens, who having lived and worked in this country all our lives, are now wondering and considering the options of moving abroad.
Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Offline Fester

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #327 on: July 06, 2016, 06:15:01 pm »
I wonder how many people like us, UK born citizens, who having lived and worked in this country all our lives, are now wondering and considering the options of moving abroad.

I was thinking of it Bosun, (6 months here, 6 months abroad), but that was before....
Now, I expect it will be less easy, less welcoming and MORE costly to contemplate.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline DaveR

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #328 on: July 07, 2016, 09:18:15 am »
&shake&                &shake&

Pound at a new 31-year low against the US dollar.
The pound remained in post-Brexit freefall as it tumbled to a fresh 31-year low against the US dollar amid mounting fears over the impact of the vote to leave the EU.

Sterling slumped below $1.28 at one stage, more than 15% below levels seen on referendum day, while it also dropped against the euro, falling 1% below Tuesday's closing figure to €1.16, its lowest level since 2013.

Concerns over a Brexit hit to the UK's property sector saw housebuilding shares remain deep in the red on the London market, although the FTSE 100 Index lifted 24.3 points to 6570.3
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/pound-new-31-year-low-11573937
A low Pound is great news for both British Exporters and for British Companies that have significant business interests abroad.

Offline born2run

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Re: European Union Vote
« Reply #329 on: July 07, 2016, 09:49:48 am »
Hanging is good for people who make ropes, but I don't want to try that either  $good$