CCBC costs and cutting

[DaveR]

The real issue - I suspect - is whether the private sector would do a better job. I always remember that the mess next to the Grand is a result of private ownership.

almost everything was built in the first place by the  private sector, trouble is modern generations have failed for various reasons to look after it.

this is interesting about the Pavilion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llandudno_Pier_Pavilion_Theatre

Good article, that one.   

[Fester]

If what I saw when out in Conwy with Dave R is anything to go by, then all the libraries might as well close.

You see there was no one reading books,  but there was a line of computers which people can use for free to research on line.

I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw ALL of them were occupied by teenagers on FACEBOOK!!   And I'm paying for that!!!!

[Ian]

 That's actually one of the biggest problems with CCBC's library network; the paucity of reading materials is the other 

[DaveR]

I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw ALL of them were occupied by teenagers on FACEBOOK!!   And I'm paying for that!!!!

It is ridiculous, and Llandudno Library is the same. Why cannot access to social networking sites be blocked?

Apparently, CCBC's Library provision is so poor that there is a possibility (according to that report) that WAG may take direct control of it and run it themselves.

[Ian]

Why cannot access to social networking sites be blocked?

I'm only guessing, here, but I could suggest it's because when they hire library staff, they don't check their level of computer literacy...

[DaveR]

I think the access is controlled centrally, from somewhere deep in Bodlondeb. There is plenty of software out there to deal with such things.

[Ian]

I agree.   I assumed each library had its own router and firewall set-up. but perhaps not.  Must investigate.

[Michael]

I use various librarys a lot, both for books and computers and newspapers and etc etc. If all the p.cs were being used by youngsters looking at facebook (were you looking over their shoulders) it would have been around 3.30 in the afternoon. In term time. It doesent really happen any other time and not much at all in school hols. But yes, they do leave school together and use the pcs together, which, I suppose, is better than the solitary use of a pc at home. They are connecting both physically and internet wise at the same time with each other. I cannot really knock that, even if they can become a pest at times. Mike

[Yorkie]

I believe that there is also a time limit for each user which will prevent one person hogging a machine for long periods and gives everyone an opportunity to use their IT skills.    To my mind what they do on the PC is up to them and in this respect I think all "naughty" sites are blocked centrally!     

[Fester]

Mike.. it was about 2pm ... and these teenagers were not interacting with anyone physically.
They were chatting about inane stuff, like what did the X Factor judges wear this weekend.

I'm not against that, I just object to paying for it thats all... let them do it at home.

The extent of the CCBC cuts will be very radical (or could be if its managed properly) ... and when harsh choices have to be made, perhaps these libraries really aren't delivering the value the taxpayer should expect.   
Will we let kids play on Facebook ... or shall we have streetlights.

[Dave]

Llandudno town councillor for the Penrhyn ward, Myra Wigzell, is against the closures.

"Penrhyn Bay library is a special case because of where it's situated, it's next to the post office and together they form the hub of the community," she said.

She said it seemed Conwy council had "just looked at a map and seen our library is close to the ones in Llandudno and Colwyn Bay".

"Penrhyn Bay has a great many elderly residents who use the library.

"It's also used by people from Llanrhos and Craigside who find it easier to get to and to park," she added.

Couldn't these elderly residents not use their bus passes to travel to Colwyn Bay or Llandudno ? 

[Dave]

It's a fair point. For example, CCBC own the Freehold of the Aberconwy Caravan Park on the Morfa in Conwy, which is valued at £1.7m - why not sell it? The Rhos Fynach pub in Rhos On Sea - why not sell it?

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/18413/response/50145/attach/html/2/FOI%20880%2009%20Non%20County%20Occupied%20Assets.xls.html

Whoever has the lease on the Aberconwy Caravan Park agreed to give the council a rather large percentage of the turnover if I remember rightly so in a way it is in private hands already but still earning for the council.
Caravan Parks have shot up in value in the last few years ( just like gold Mr Brown!) so it might not be a good idea to sell, on the other hand if you control the planning applications I guess you can just open another one instead 

[MrFalafel]

The private sector does a better job 9 times out of 10. In the 1 out of 10 instance where it doesn't, then the public sector has the power to step in to deal with the problem. In the case of the Pier Pavilion, of course, neither the private or public sector emerges with any glory!

A third way, of course, is for local people to step in and take over these facilities. A group of motivated, community minded, individuals can achieve far more than the dead hand of council bureaucracy. Take the Happy Valley Cafe, Llandudno, as an example. It could be owned by a community group (maybe even the elusive 'Friends of Happy Valley'  ), still run by the Parisellas, but all revenues ploughed back into improving Happy Valley park.

I know a bit about Happy Valley Cafe. The problem there is it doesn't make enough money to be kept afloat as a viable business. Hasn't for years.  The Parisellas tried and ran it at a loss most months of the year and didn''t recoup during the summer months. If a business savvy person took a look at the books and the potential for the business they wouldn't touch the Cafe with a 10 foot pole. So the council has a choice: keep it open as a 'tourist support cost' or let it close down and become and eyesore. I can see they've chosen the former and its hard to fault them for that. I like your idea about being run as a community group but which community group can afford to lose as much money as Parisellas did?

It's a tough call for that one. But I agree the freeholds in caravan parks should be sold off!

[Ian]

The problem there is it doesn't make enough money to be kept afloat as a viable business.

Perhaps it needs an added attraction - such as a stage show?   

[DaveR]

Interesting stuff, McFalafel, I'd be amazed if the cafe didnt make a nice profit, it is always busy in the Summer months - I'm there at least once a week and there's always a steady stream of customers. So are you saying that the Parisellas effectively don't pay any rent for it?!

You could boost profitability there with a few fairly simple changes:

1) More exciting menu - they don't sell nearly as much food as they should.
2) Reduce the kitchen area size (which accounts for over 50% of the interior floor space) and increase the number of inside tables.
3) Replace current open entrance with door and large picture windows, so that it will be warmer on colder days.
4) Better coffee!

 ££$