Unemployment and Benefits

[born2run]

And Fester's fist shaking lunacy comes from a far right webiste (save your country UK) with strong links to the EDL - run by morons and about as accurate as a Wayne Rooney penalty.

Visit their facebook site for such refreshingly eye opening insights as

Scotland yard warning that Muzzies committing hate crimes against white people could well escalate and assaults could get worse

"or maybe we should accept gangs of foreigners that rape our children, blow up our people, take our jobs, push our services to breaking point "

"Enoch Powell was a hero full of both common sense and insight "

"Too f*****g right Islam has no place in Britain"

"Disgusting, it's bad enough having Eastern Europeans here as it is without them taking part in sham marriages and bringing a load of Muzzies over here aswell"

Nice source Fester 

[Merddin Emrys]

Seems fair enough to me! 

[Ian]

What you have highlighted is the injustice in the benefits system that allows foreign nationals to live a life of luxury here that they would not experience in their own country but at the same time  it deprives UK born citizens of a fair and just system.

If you investigate these cases a little further, Hugo, some interesting things emerge.  Just to take Fester's first example of the "2.6 million home for muslim family" I can see how easy it is to assume that it must be a foreign family.  But from the Telegraph (hardly the most rabid, left-wing rag around:-) we discover that "Ms Walker, a British-born Muslim is currently studying psychology through the Open University." so she's not actually an immigrant or a foreign national.

However, we also see that her situation makes headlines because of two factors: the area in which she had to be rehoused and the Children Act. From the council we see that "A Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council spokesman said: 'When Miss Walker came to us she was technically homeless and we had a statutory obligation to house her. We could not move her to a property outside the borough because her children go to local schools and the rules say you can't uproot them.' ". 

So how to deal with the situation is the real issue, as it's the children which are the real cause of her current situation.

[Ian]

That there are abuses of the welfare system is no surprise: any system will be abused by someone, somewhere, and welfare systems - by their very nature  - are prime targets. But I don't know how you eradicate those abuses. The Children Act places children at the core of the system, so you'd have to make some pretty tough decisions about them if you were going to change anything.

[Hugo]

BTR has jumped in an got the wrong end of the stick.  Fester was highlighting the inconsistencies of the benefit system and how British people were losing out on benefits while the non contributing foreigners were rolling in it.
My contribution was that if the Tory Cameron kept his word then the benefits would be capped at £26K and these extremes would then not arise in the future.
I'm afraid that the rants of the aspiring Karl Marx are more fitting to Groucho Marx


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155726/Somali-family-benefits-handed-keys--2million-luxury-council-home-Londons-affluent-streets.html

[Fester]

Born to Run, I see that the original article came from that site, but I found it in the national press, and also on a forum about stocks and shares, (entirely unrelated to politics)

However, they examples are real, and seemingly you would rather shoot the messenger than address them.

If a member of the BNP tried to rescue you from your burning house, would you deny that the house was on fire because he told you so?

[Hugo]

I'll have a look again at the first example Ian, but here is a link to a Somali family in Kensington which is equally disgusting.  What I can't understand is why they have chosen the UK if it wasn't just for benefit reasons, surely Kenya, Ethiopia and a host of middle eastern countries are much nearer Somalia


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293730/Somali-asylum-seeker-family-given-2m-house--complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html

[Ian]

I agree.  And it's again down to the rules:

Rules allow anyone who is eligible for housing benefit to claim for a private property in any part of the country they wish.

However, what that doesn't say is that the number of children is the deciding factor.  So, once again, we're back to the Children Act. It was well-intentioned legislation, but it has caused a lot of problems.

[Hugo]

Is this the woman Ian?  "Mother of eight Francesca Walker was placed in a £2.6m house in Notting Hill, west London at the taxpayers' expense
Miss Walker, 33, has Tory leader David Cameron, actor Hugh Grant and Four Weddings writer Richard Curtis as neighbours in fashionable Notting Hill, West London"

I'll take your word that she is British born as I can't find anything to say where she is from but it is still disgusting to read that she is getting so much in benefits from the UK.   I hope Cameron is a man of his word and puts an end to these obscenities.     


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154332/Islington-council-houses-family-benefits-1-8-MILLION-property--access-private-basketball-court.html#ixzz2JHRwOyFt
 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154332/Islington-council-houses-family-benefits-1-8-MILLION-property--access-private-basketball-court.html

[Ian]

Hugo:  I don't; disagree with that you're saying. All I'm adding is that it's down to current legislation. And how do you change that?

[Fester]

I don't think that Mr Cameron or anyone else can put a stop to such abuses.

You see, by the very nature of a coalition government, the more 'controversial' policies we voted for will always be diluted down, compromised on... or simply forgotten about altogether.

There is no real appetite for any government to make any 'radical' changes.... there just aren't enough people who really want to change the status quo.    We would rather moan about it, blog about it, etc.

[Ian]

Michael Heseltine, an ex-Tory minister for whom I have immense regard, observed on a programme last week that "All governments are coalitions", by which he meant that the extremes of any single party necessitate continuous compromise once in power. Sobering.

[DaveR]

How about we scrap most politicans and just have a system of online voting, whereby all taxpayers have the ability to put forward a new law/spending proposal etc and it is then voted upon by other taxpayers. Every month, the proposal or spending plan that receives the most votes gets acted upon. Democracy in its purest form? 

At County level, this could translate into a number of Propositions (e.g. Spend more money on Parks) being put forward every year. Council tax payers would then be able to select the proposition that appeals most to them and this would be enacted if passed. This happens a lot in California and other U.S. States:
http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/

To be effective, of course, it would rely on the electorate looking at the issues intelligently and voting objectively, rather than just with pure self interest in mind..........ok, forget the idea! 

[Ian]

How about we scrap most politicans and just have a system of online voting, whereby all taxpayers have the ability to put forward a new law/spending proposal etc and it is then voted upon by other taxpayers. Every month, the proposal or spending plan that receives the most votes gets acted upon. Democracy in its purest form?

I've been suggesting this for years, but the vested powers don't like the concept.

[Hugo]

Hugo:  I don't; disagree with that you're saying. All I'm adding is that it's down to current legislation. And how do you change that?

You are correct of course Ian and by using current regulation they have legally done nothing wrong but it has got to be stopped somehow. 
 I just wish that the cap of £26K in benefits would come in immediately and put an end to people making a ludicrous career out of being unemployed baby producers.