National politics

[born2run]

Completely absurd! Corbyn has 84% support of local Labour parties, does that mean that 84% of local parties are 'the looney left'? This includes our own CLP , which I assume you're not a member of even though you seem to know so very much about the party and how it is supposed to be run!

Ian, you're very good with your highlighting pen, but you seem to ignore my next sentence talking about a government. Also your wild claim about Corbyn wanting to stay as an MP because it has a nice pension has not other substantiation than your own mind! If you are going to make wild accusations, please be prepared to back them up with fact. I find it surprising as you're normally the first to berate claims on here without any basis, you badgered poor Fester to death not too long ago because he was making similar assumptions!

I would also remind you that Corbyn turned down Owen Smith's silly but very cushy offer to be 'president' of the party. I suspect this would have been of more worth than his MPs pension

http://labourlist.org/2016/07/corbyn-snubs-smiths-offer-of-party-president-role/

[Bosun]

Of course Corbyn was not going to rise to Owen Smith's offer, firstly it was not in Smith's power to give, and secondly Corbyn knows that he will the Leadership contest. But Corbyn knows that he will never, ever win a general election and will never be Prime Minister, he has no ambition in that direction. He simply wants to turn the Labour Party into his own ideals of a Marxist/Leninist/Socialist Workers protest party. If the idiot Thornberry is the best that he can find to post as a Shadow Foreign Secretary, because 172 out of 232 are prepared to vote that they had no confidence in Corbyn, he has hardly been a raving success as a leader, but as well as no support from his own MP's, Labour support amongst the public is now at an all time low. To say that he has the support of 84% of local Labour parties is worthless, you have to be politically orientated to join a political party, so by joining the Labour party shows a left leaning, and those that support Corbyn are just further left, and they are the only people that do support Corbyn, the general public don't, and never will. He's destroyed the Labour Party as a credible Parliamentary Opposition and as an alternative to the Tories for the foreseeable future and will have the worst record as a Labour leader in history, worse even than Milliband or Foot. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. 

[born2run]

"Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may have been given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it."

Sums up your view perfectly I think!

The public doesn't hate Corbyn it's the right wing press who have created this fallacy. Most people I talk to respect and admire him. Before these MPs started messing around him and whipping up a boo haha the opinion polls were neck and neck. I'm certain Corbyn can and will win a general election as long as he isn't stopped by his own party.

[Bosun]

The public doesn't hate Corbyn it's the right wing press who have created this fallacy. Most people I talk to respect and admire him. Before these MPs started messing around him and whipping up a boo haha the opinion polls were neck and neck. I'm certain Corbyn can and will win a general election as long as he isn't stopped by his own party.

 

[Hugo]

Completely absurd! Corbyn has 84% support of local Labour parties, does that mean that 84% of local parties are 'the looney left'? This includes our own CLP , which I assume you're not a member of even though you seem to know so very much about the party and how it is supposed to be run!


http://labourlist.org/2016/07/corbyn-snubs-smiths-offer-of-party-president-role/

If being honest and truthful is absurd then I'll own up to it.    Just waving a Union card doesn't mean that you are right either.    I've been a Labour supporter and an active Union Member since 1964 so I may have picked up a little knowledge along the way, but most of all I hope I've acquired some common sense too.
Boson is quite right in what he has said that the Country does need a strong opposition party whether it's a Labour one or a Conservative one or otherwise the party in Government can simply do what they want to do.
Corbyn is not a leader in any way shape or form, he is just a protester and if he's still in power then Labour will not be a viable opposition party but will continue just being a party of protest.
When the next General Election comes up,  I like many others won't be voting for Labour if  Corbyn is the leader and neither would I consider voting for the Conservatives as it is not representative of the majority of the population.   

[born2run]

Whilst I respect your decision not to vote Labour if JC was leader and more than respect your decision not Tory either. I don't consider your view definitive of the British public.

Who would you vote for out of interest? If there was an election tomorrow for instance.

I would always vote Labour regardless of the leader, as I believe there can only be one strong opposition party which we all must unite behind to defeat the Tories, who always have and always will look after the interests of the few , this I did with Sillyband as leader with no relish at all and would do again even if a pillock like Owen Smith was leader. But should JC not be leader I would not be a member of the Labour party nor would play an active part in supporting them. Nor would most of the people who have joined recently and have revitalised the party. This I fear would be the end of the Labour party as the main opposition. People have the power, without grassroots supporters Labour is nothing.

[Ian]

Ian, you're very good with your highlighting pen, but you seem to ignore my next sentence talking about a government.

Not really. I'm just curious how someone who clearly had no regard for his party or its leadership can expect to claim the loyalty of those who oppose him.

Also your wild claim about Corbyn wanting to stay as an MP because it has a nice pension has not other substantiation than your own mind!

Indeed, but I was making the point that he's oddly anxious to remain in what the majority of his own MPs tell him is an unsustainable position. When so many MPs tell their leader that he's not the person for the job, every other political party leader I can think of would have resigned. Now, you made the point that you expect all the MPs to

support their democratically elected leader. If they refuse they should be kicked out of the party

but that's never what Corbyn himself did. Thus, if he expects them to support him when he failed to do the same in the same position, how can he lead the party and what are his motives for remaining as the leader? That's a legitimate question, and you can only retreat to the 'democratic vote' for so long. He's been told - repeatedly - that he's dangerous for Labour's future, yet he's already made it clear that even if Labour gets wiped out at the next general election he'll stay on as leader. So something must be keeping him on as leader. If there's no support for him from his MPs, then what is his motive? It might be that he's in a well paid job - seems eminently reasonable to propose that. 
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[Ian]

The worrying thought to me is that another party will emerge. It could be a centrist party - maybe the Violet progressive party comprising most Labour MPs and some Tory sceptics. But more worryingly, UKIP might make a push to take the extreme wings.

[born2run]

The worrying thought to me is that another party will emerge. It could be a centrist party - maybe the Violet progressive party comprising most Labour MPs and some Tory sceptics. But more worryingly, UKIP might make a push to take the extreme wings.

I agree completely, particularly with regards to the far right. Brexit proved that for me. I spoke to so many people (particularly working class people) who had never voted in their lives but voted to 'leave' in that debacle.

It will have given them a taste of voting and one that they'll keep up if Labour doesn't regain these core electorates then the right wing will happily lap them up.

That's why I believe we need a Leader who is a little different from the mainstream.

[Hugo]

I would always vote Labour regardless of the leader, as I believe there can only be one strong opposition party which we all must unite behind to defeat the Tories.

And that's the crux of this because as long as Labour has Corbyn as leader it will always remain in opposition.    The UK needs a strong leader in power who will defend the country, whereas Corbyn's views on defence are well known.    He won't press the nuclear button if needed, but is quite happy to press the self destruct button for the Labour Party.    Who needs a leader like that?

[rhuddlan]

"He won't press the nuclear button if needed.."

I thought I would keep off the political threads but I can't let that go....sorry!
Well I for one don't want mutually assured destruction. I read that and immediately thought of an old song viz

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W7-ngmO_p8

[born2run]

Yep, hard to let that one pass - I don't think there is too many people desperate for a nuclear war   

[Dwyforite]

and I definatly don't want a primeminister  to be tugged by his the ear into participating in another war on the say so of an American president who has an i.q.lower than the heels on his cowboy boots

[Hugo]

War is futile and no one in their right mind would want it, but if we hadn't have stuck up for ourselves when we needed to then we could all be speaking German now.

[rhuddlan]

I think that trying to compare " pressing the  nuclear button" with conventional ( and I hate using that word) war is wrong. The former would lead to mutually assured destruction, in my opinion.  No one would be alive  so language wouldn't  matter would it.