Cafes, Restaurants, Pubs & Takeaways

[Fester]

Wrex, I was in The Gresham last night, it was very busy as it now serves tapas of the highest quality, accompanied by live Spanish music.  The FatCat an Fountains were busy too, but at different times.
There was a band on in The Townhouse, and that was packed around midnight.

I understand that a Tapas restuarant is not for the younger clientele as you say, and I agree that there are few vibrant places for nightlife for the 'younger end' in Llandudno.

[wrex]

I was in the Cross Keys friday nite,heaving as a local band where on,all im bothered about is we are driving our youngsters away,nothing we can do about it,Bangor is now the place to go all im hopeing is we manage to attract a buisnesses dealing with the young,remember even if they showed an interest they haet passed our council first.

[Blongb]

Bangor is a University Town Wrex, we will never be able to compete with them, but just think what Llandudno had to offer 10 years ago and then consider what Upper Mostyn Street offers now. A huge change mainly directed at our younger generation  Z**  WWW  ZXZ

[Cat Stevens]

One of the problems that has contributed to the exodus of the younger element is the fact that the local Licensing Authority have been wielding their ever ending campaign of trying to catch out the licensees by sending in a youngster into a venue in the hope that they get served then they issue an £80 fine and possibly a criminal record to the poor unsuspecting bar person.
If a venue is caught twice in three months they then enforce a 48 hour closure period which is enforced on a weekend of their choice. (Licensing Authority Choice)
About 2 years ago they closed three pubs in Abergele on the same weekend.
This action in turn makes the licensee very defensive and as a result they choose to exercise the 25 rule, whereupon any person trying to enter a particular venue has to if they look under 25 prove that they are over 18.. which in some sense is all well and good and if you wish to have a good night out then you must carry identification which incidentally can only be 1. A Driving Licence. 2. A Passport. 3 A PASS card which is issued by the home office. NO OTHER IDENTIFICATION WILL SUFFICE..
Nowthen picture the situation . 10 youngsters plan on going out on the town for the night but only eight of then have the relevant Identification then you will have to change your plans or leave your mates (not the rubber kind) at home or you have the option of going to Bangor which is controlled by a different Licensing Authority with different ethics .
I maintain that the evening economy in LLandudno has been damaged a result of the Gestapo style tactics of the Local Licensing enforcement team.  Yes you are quite right 10 years ago there were more youngsters out in the pubs which in turn added to the numbers and made Mostyn very vibrant place to be. but over The last 7 years the Local Licensing Authority have treated the younger element with contempt, and driven them away.

[born2run]

Good point - I'm almost 30 and I often get asked for ID - but (as recently as last week in a supermarket) I don't carry my passport around with me and don't drive so if I get asked then  I don't get served, very annoying 

Incidentally though, I'm sure I read that these young people sent in by the licencing authority have to tell the truth about their age if they're just asked - so if the person behind the bar says "Are you 18?" They would have to say no. So no need to ask for ID they can just ask for the age.

[born2run]

Also to further back up Yusuf's point, I get asked for ID more often now than I did when I was 18 and 19.
Now I know I have maintained my youthful good looks  But I'd be surprised if I look younger now than I did over ten years ago  L0L

[Fester]

I have to take up that point regarding the licensing authority.

I frequent many of the pubs in Llandudno..  ZXZ  and I have seen what I consider to be an injustice several occasions.
In my experience, The Fat Cat and The Fountains Bar are both very well managed, very considerate to the local residents and extremely compliant in terms of regulations.
However I notice that they are targeted by the police and licensing authorities on an inordinate amount of occasions.
This creates upheaval and inconvenience for the managers, plus a feeling of unease for the customer.

However, several other pubs in Llandudno are appallingly run, noisy and obviously flout many regulations.
To date, I have NEVER seen the police or licensing authorities ever enter those premises.

I wonder why?   

[Cat Stevens]

Since the introduction of the licensing regulations in 2005 the drinking culture of Britain has changed dramatically.
I remember when I was 16ish i was able to buy a pint in several pubs with friends who were older than myself. however I did look 18 years of age.
No ID was ever asked for and most young people from the age of 18 would frequent the pub at least twice a week. I am talking about the 70's when you would not find large gangs of kids gathering in the park drinking cheep alcohol. In the 70's  it would take 4 kids to club together to buy a 24 pack of lager, now however a youngster on his own can buy then with their pocket money.
In the 70's to gain a license all you had to do was stand up in-front the licensing committee at one of 12 Brewster sessions at the local magistrates court, and as long as you were a fit and proper person they would grant you a license.
Now however you have to sit a test hosted by a home office recognised body and prove that you have a good understanding of the licensing law together with its main objectives. Then you have to produce a clean criminal Record Check. Apply to the council for a licence who inturn also have the power to revoke it if you break any of the licensing objectives..
I say this.
Licensees now are more qualified and much more responsible in their workplace to look after the customers who frequent their businesses.
So why is it that the local council and the licensing authority are almost forcing the youngsters out into the parks to drink cheep supermarket booze in an unsupervised location
I'm not saying that kids under the age of 18 should drink alcohol. But the pub is a supervised drinking establishment policed by the Licensee and their staff. and wouldn't that be a safer environment.
Remember the days when the last bell rang at closing time. that was it. It was off for a kebab and home you went.
Not so now you can sit up the local park and the only thing that finishes the night is when you run out of booze.
Or when you sit in your arm chair at home their is no bell to signal last orders so no one to say stop you have had enough.
If you go to Bangor you will find a much more relaxed approach to alcohol. there are no underagers in the pubs but their are pleaty of youngsters learning how to be adults. I say the problem here in LLandudno is a result of local authority influence.

[Ian]

So why is it that the local council and the licensing authority are almost forcing the youngsters out into the parks to drink cheep supermarket booze in an unsupervised location

You make some interesting points, Cat. What's worth considering is why culture has changed.  And I'm not sure it's changed as recently as you suggest.

To deal with your quoted (above) point first: councils - and all politicians - are fuelled mainly by fear; primarily  of losing their jobs come the next election, but also from a deep seated fear that they don't have all the answers they suggested they might when standing for the last one.  In a way, that's perfectly understandable, but the consequence for voters is they have to suffer the knee jerk' response to events. Since the mid 2000s several TV companies have been making a series of 'fly-on-the-wall' documentaries in which they've focussed on policing inner city streets at night.  Naturally, quiet streets where little happens after dark don't make for good audience figures, whereas scenes of screaming, abusive, physically violent and utterly inebriated denizens of the night, do - in spades - and thus the advertisers pay more to fill the programme slots. Unfortunately, some of the national media - the DFM leading the charge - print absurd claims and stories, attempting to insinuate that such scenes are totally typical of the decline of modern youth and the degeneration of the country under (fill in appropriate party here) is all but unstoppable. I've never worked out why, but politicians actually take notice of some newspapers, and thus the reactions are born.

What we're seeing in Conwy with regard to the licensing situation can be traced back - I think - to a series of 'exposés' regarding under-age drinking in the area by the local press. Local councils reacted and we have the current situation.

But I also think you make a salient point when you say

In the 70's  it would take 4 kids to club together to buy a 24 pack of lager, now however a youngster on his own can buy then with their pocket money.

There's little doubt in my mind that the supermarket pricing strategies have allowed youngsters to get alcohol very cheaply compared with the past and - regrettably - there are plenty of adults willing to help them.

[dwsi]

Is there a OAP NIMBY-ism going on in the area?

[Ian48]

I hate to state the obvious and run counter to your arguements, but isn't the council simply enforcing the law of the land, which states that it is an offence to sell alcohol to under 18s. You seem to be saying that if only they were allowed to serve who they want, when they want, at whatever age they want, that all would be hunky-dory. I think it's right that licensees who are breaking the law, should be held to account for doing so. That is the law, like we all have to follow. 

Llandudno is not a great night out it has to be said, but that is mainly because we have far fewer 20-35 year olds than other areas as they escape to areas where there are jobs and a bit of life. Bangor has a university and favourable demographics.

It was a problem when Bartons/Annabelles closed as that kept people in the town centre, but that closed due to structural problems in the building so could not really be helped.

[Ian]

I hate to state the obvious and run counter to your arguements,

Whose arguments?

[Yorkie]

Today the OH and I had a run out and finished for a coffee at the Welsh Food Centre at Bodnant.  Place still has workmen doing things and it was very quiet.  I would suspect that most of the cars present belonged to the staff.   Had two cappuccinos at the extortionate price of £4.90 which included queuing at the counter (by oneself) and waiting for what seemed an eternity.  No small biscuit or similar offered.  The cappuccinos were not the best available locally.  Two other people having a snack and about 6 people having ice creams.

Went into the shop and disgusted at the quality of the "fresh produce" - Cauliflowers soft and blown, Carrots soft and old, much a similar story with other items.

All pre-packed stuff too expensive for me and the bit of Welsh Black Fillet I fancied was over £41.00 a kilo!   Needless to say if I had to shop there I would soon become a vegetarian - except for their veggies, of course!   It is going to be a long time before we venture up their path again.   What a sad situation.
               

[Blongb]

Today the OH and I had a run out and finished for a coffee at the Welsh Food Centre at Bodnant. Two other people having a snack and about 6 people having ice creams.

Went into the shop and disgusted at the quality of the "fresh produce" - Cauliflowers soft and blown, Carrots soft and old, much a similar story with other items.

All pre-packed stuff too expensive

I'm with you on this one Yorkie, I threw my ice cream away as it was nothing but grease. Everything in the shop was way overpriced.    I think it’s been built to cater for the Cruise ship market and most certainly not for locals on a budget. I've been once and wo'nt waist my time going back a second time. However I do love going around the Gardens and think what has been achieved there is a credit to the National Trust

[Yorkie]

There ain't gonna be any cruise ship market in this area, and old aged pensioners on coach trips won't be buying much.  I think they have about 6 or 8 bays allocated for coaches.  Time will tell.    L0L