The long running saga of Colwyn Bay Pier

[SteveH]

It would be interesting to run a poll on this forum occasionally, to see which way the wind blows on this one would be a good start !

I agree.....

[SteveH]

TOWN councillors have thrown renewed support behind the fight to save Colwyn Bay pier.

Members of the Bay of Colwyn Town Council voted to carry on backing a Heritage Lottery Fund bid to restore the aging Grade-II listed Victorian structure after Conwy County Council gave an update to their meeting on Tuesday.
Town councillors made the vote despite warnings over the pier’s safety, and the county council’s plans to demolish the structure.
Town Cerk Tina Early said: “The county council asked to give us a presentation on the current state of the pier and where everything is up to.
“There was a vote and councillors agreed to carry on backing the bid.“
Town Councillors were told that the structure is deteriorating with growing concerns about its safety.
Conwy County Council Chief Executive Iwan Davies said: “The former Bandstand area has been of concern for some time and it had been proposed that we would seek to remove that area of the structure.

MORE...http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/139778/town-councillors-throw-fresh-support-behind-colwyn-bay-pier-bid.aspx

Ref Dave..."It would be interesting to run a poll on this forum occasionally, to see which way the wind blows on this one would be a good start !"

See page 38.

[DaveR]

I have added a Vote about the future of the Pier, which appears at the top of the thread. 

[SteveH]

I have added a Vote about the future of the Pier, which appears at the top of the thread. 

In these days of "Cuts" it is difficult to justify, but with the grant, and a self sustaining system put in place (£1 per head) to visit the pier, it should work.
Ref. Fester's quote of the 10/9/14...
"But, once it's gone, it's gone forever, and those who vote for that to happen should hang their heads in shame."  ££$


Can guests vote ?
 

[majormellons]

Anybody who thinks that spending a penny on that eyesore, except for knocking it down, need their heads testing.

I'm amazed that local youths haven't torched the place yet, and save CCBC the cost of structured demolition.

[snowcap]

I would think that the idea of spending money on the "eye sore" is to restore it to something that the tourest would only be to glad to visit and so bring some more than welcome trade

[majormellons]

I would think that the idea of spending money on the "eye sore" is to restore it to something that the tourest would only be to glad to visit and so bring some more than welcome trade

If you think that spending £10m in that bomb site is money well spent, then so be it.
My partner is about to have her contract cancelled by CCBC, because of all the cut backs, I'm finding any waste of money, whether it be the Skip or the Pier, incredibly frustrating when it could be far better utilised.

[BMD]

To demolish would be a false economy, to my mind. First, there's the cost of demolition itself (£1m-£1.2m), then there's all the additional costs involved, both in preparation for demolishing (including, in the council's own words - and unless the need for this has changed: "Complex and lengthy procedure to be followed to gain delisting from CADW with likely challenge from community/stakeholders”).

Then there are the costs of what happens afterwards, including, according to the council: “Need to establish a business case/funding for alternative focal point at this point on the waterfront”. See: http://colwynbay.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/pier-demolition/

And what "focal point" are they going to build in its place? Has anyone given the slightest thought to this? They can't just leave an ugly stump (although I wouldn't put that past them). There needs to be something there which draws pedestrians from town. What, exactly? It's another project with potentially high costs and the probability of an an outcome like Porth Eirias. That would be a total distaster. You think you have an eyesore now? Just wait.

And consider the loss. Piers are iconic, symbolic. They are huge attractions - you can't afford to underestimate the positive indirect effects of having a pier (as well as the obvious ones). It's not just Colwyn Bay. North Wales is perceived as a coastline with Victorian piers. There are only around 50 left in the whole country. We don't want to lose another. It would be so short-sighted. In the future, people will look back and say: "How could they?".

Given the latest estimates, the difference between demolition alone and having a newly refurbished basic-boardwalk pier is only £2.7m. If you subtract the cost of the project to build a replacement "focal point", the net cost of keeping the pier is even lower than that.

It's not "throwing money at" an eyesore, it's investing money in the replacement of an eyesore with a refurbished pier (rather than some abomination like The Skip).

[SteveH]

BMD.  Well said, I agree,
I need some backup here from the Rhosite's.....I remember a lot of discussion going on in the past about " the adverse changes to Rhos beach after they demolished the Rhos pier" such as "the rocks from the other side, being washed around",  and "it was never the same",
Although piers stand on thin legs, they still have an effect on the tides, if it goes what will happen to all the new work, just completed ?

[Ian]

My partner is about to have her contract cancelled by CCBC, because of all the cut backs, I'm finding any waste of money, whether it be the Skip or the Pier, incredibly frustrating when it could be far better utilised.

Yes, and although a lot of those contracted staff at the lower end will see their contracts ended I wonder how many of the senior staff will see the same, or how many councillors receiving substantial expenses or salaries will voluntarily hand back or even refuse their money?  Or whether our illustrious MPs will hand back their recent increases?

[majormellons]

Given the latest estimates, the difference between demolition alone and having a newly refurbished basic-boardwalk pier is only £2.7m. If you subtract the cost of the project to build a replacement "focal point", the net cost of keeping the pier is even lower than that.

It's not "throwing money at" an eyesore, it's investing money in the replacement of an eyesore with a refurbished pier (rather than some abomination like The Skip).

What value would a short, newly refurbished basic boardwalk bring?
Just another £2.7m (or probably nearer £5m knowing how these projects always cost far more than estimated) spend on something that offers nothing back in return, well nothing financial apart from the  ongoing maintenance costs.

Colwyn Bay prom will look much nicer without it, or another Skip in its place.

[BMD]

I'm familiar with that argument - but it's applied inconsistently. If we follow through on the logic, we must also demolish the Skip (since it's clearly not going to fund itself, even with the dreamed-about bistro in place - and most people regard it as an eyesore).

(Also, the Skip would be cheaper to demolish than the pier, and cheaper to replace.)

[Dave]

I must admit I was swayed by an emotional tug at the heart strings and changed from demolition to basic renovation when it came to my vote. Wouldn't a basic pier..solid support and walkway at at the minimum cost to the rate payer be a good compromise ? No need for it to support large structures but if small booths such as the ones on Llandudno's pier could be erected for retail outlets and general interest wouldn't that suffice ? That way an income would be generated to pay towards it's upkeep.
If we are honest though, if the pier was going to be an economic success it would never have got in to the state it's in now. Unless there's a radical change to Colwyn Bay centre you will never get people walking through from the town. The piers hey day was when folk arrived by train , Colwyn Bay was a vibrant little town which actually offered holiday accommodation and supported some lovely shops and a superb little amusement park to say nothing of cinemas and theatres including the one on the pier.
All that went with the introduction of cheap flights and the A55 Expressway and in my opinion it will never return. Tourism figures may well be up because we had a superb summer and Colwyn Bay was no exception although there I imagine the majority of the spend was in the remaining kiosks and cafes by day trippers not so much "staycationers".
If you consider the four piers that are in North Wales only Colywn Bay's is on a decent beach. It was the Bay's sand that attracted the people despite the building works going on because it's one of the few places were you can park your car and access the beach directly. They certainly weren't there to eat expensive meals in an upmarket bistro and very few were there to partake in watersports.I don't think many would be bothered to walk to the pier either for that matter.It would be interesting to see the number of passengers the land train actually carried because if you can't be bothered to walk to the pier you probably can't be bothered to walk on it either.
Personally I think money should be spent on and around Rhos Point to renovate that and I also think there is justification for a car parking charge on the Colwyn Bay prom too provided the funds are used to support facilities like decent toilet facilities for the visitors.
The pier will always be a financial Albatross but I vote to let the next generation decide when if it has to go. Too many of us see it with the rose tinted glasses of the past to be totally objective.

[Ian]

All that went with the introduction of cheap flights and the A55 Expressway

No.  It went much earlier than that. CB has always played second fiddle to Llandudno's trio.  Even in the '50s, when CB was still offering holiday accommodation, the destination of choice was Llandudno. Ironic, really, since CB's beach was always superior but Llandudndo has the Ormes, the deeper waters, the entertainment, the beaches and - oh, and did I say the Ormes?

As patterns have changed, both resorts have deteriorated in terms of offering, accommodation, facilities and attractions in general, but the Ormes have meant that Llandudno's bay sweep remains unique and - although the entertainment venues were swept away, numbers dropped off, income declined and the gardens left to degenerate to an entropic shadow of their former selves, the less inherently attractive resorts died, which meant CB and Rhyl, to name but two.

Nothing short of demolition of the entire town will reconstitute CB, now. It's desperately, deplorably sad, too, because CB still has enormous potential but its fate remains inextricably tied to Llandudno's success as a tourist resort.  It's market forces which have created the current situation, too;  market forces that decided more money could be made by demolishing superb cinemas and building retirement flats. Market forces that allowed the trams to disappear, when trams are making come-backs across the world as instruments of tourist development. Market forces that allowed the Pavilion to deteriorate until it was destroyed by a fire. Market forces that would have Llandudno an entire enclave of retirement flats and private hospitals and no hotels or boarding houses whatsoever.

People moan about CCBC's funding of the Venue Cymru and of Theatr Cymru, yet does anyone seriously imagine, in their wildest dreams, that private developers would ever had created such facilities? I was chatting with two performers from the WNO the other day, and they're performing at TC. Opera in Llandudno. Yet it's only possible because of the funding from the Arts Council, the WAG and CCBC.

CB's only hope for survival as any sort of holiday place is if Llandudno remains even moderately successful as a holiday destination.  The sort of lateral thinking that envisages a tram restoration project which might see trams reintroduced along the old routes still exists but the money will never be found. Why not? Because market forces are only interested in a quick buck and it would take a central government injection of unheard of cash to change anything in that regard.

[Yorkie]

One idea is to cut up the Colwyn Bay Pier into small pieces, mount each piece on a square of polished wood, and sell them off as souvenirs.   Enough money may be generated to build a shorter pier from which annoying people could jump!
 ZXZ